Homophobia in Russia

[warpus]

warpus
Gay cops? I can't even imagine

What's there to imagine? Around 4-10% of the planet's population is homosexual - there are bound to be gay cops, teachers, politicians, priests, etc.

 

[atreas]

Garric tells us that we can't export democratic values

You can "export democratic values" in the same way that the mayor exports "his ethical beliefs" to his people. In fact, such "exports" were never uncommon - and (surprise) they are usually accompanied with violence because people have objections to "import" these "exports".

 

[downtown]

Okay, so the only difference between Russia and somewhere else is nukes. Somebody doesn't know too much about IR, but whatever, I think I've made my point.

It appears, that in Garric's eyes, that the only okay to protest against what the law says if he agrees with the protest (anti-communism okay, gay protests NOT okay). Anybody who argues otherwise just doesnt understand Russia.

Garric, have you lived in Russia before? I'm just wondering...I thought you were 16 or something

 

[nonconformist]

This is offtopic but I want to point out that this could be disputed. Homosexuality could be ruled be sexual disfuntion but what actually makes the difference is that the others aren't done in the consent of other person involved which society could accept. So these are forced by law to protect the weak. In case of homosexuality where both are adults and aware of their actions, such thing could be accepted.

We could of course start to talk why prostitution is also judged to be illegal in many countries for no other apparent reason but that being something some people considering it to be "morally wrong".

I'd like to counter this by the fact that homosexuality is a mutually agreed bond between two consenting adults, while the others are not.

 

[garric]

Okay, so the only difference between Russia and somewhere else is nukes. Somebody doesn't know too much about IR, but whatever, I think I've made my point.

It appears, that in Garric's eyes, that the only okay to protest against what the law says if he agrees with the protest (anti-communism okay, gay protests NOT okay). Anybody who argues otherwise just doesnt understand Russia.

Garric, have you lived in Russia before? I'm just wondering...I thought you were 16 or something

I am a Russian citizen.
I am a New Zealand citizen.
And I am an American citizen.

And no, I'm not 16. You might be thinking of Red Stranger or Nonconformist?

Okay, so the only difference between Russia and somewhere else is nukes. Somebody doesn't know too much about IR, but whatever, I think I've made my point.

It appears, that in Garric's eyes, that the only okay to protest against what the law says if he agrees with the protest (anti-communism okay, gay protests NOT okay). Anybody who argues otherwise just doesnt understand Russia.

Garric, have you lived in Russia before? I'm just wondering...I thought you were 16 or something

Perhaps I ought to be more direct to you. Russia is an advanced country with great influence and power. Iraq is not. Even if you believe you can't export these values to Iraq, you can, through military force. However, you can't do so in Russia.

 

[C~G]

I'd like to counter this by the fact that homosexuality is a mutually agreed bond between two consenting adults, while the others are not.

Sorry, it seems my english failed me this time. Have to read it again.
That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[nonconformist]

Sorry, it seems my english failed me this time. Have to read it again.
That was the point I was trying to make.

Sorry, I might have read it a bit too fast too

And no, I'm not 16. You might be thinking of Red Stranger or Nonconformist?

17, and loving it, Tovarish

 

[Sidhe]

This is offtopic but I want to point out that this could be disputed. Homosexuality could be ruled be sexual disfuntion but what actually makes the difference is that the others aren't done in the consent of other person involved which society could accept. So these are forced by law to protect the weak. In case of homosexuality where both are adults and aware of their actions, such thing could be accepted.

We could of course start to talk example why prostitution is also judged to be illegal in many countries for no other apparent reason but that being something some people considering it to be "morally wrong and twisted".

Just to point out this isn't so simple issue.

Well according to Psychological texts at least ones in English anyway(I can't speak for the world community as a whole) Homosexuality is no longer considered a sexual dysfunction, why this is is due to scientific research on the matter. It's considered more as a trait generally these days rather than a 100% nurtured condition,a trait like left handedness, it's OT so I'll say no more, if your interested as I said go look it up.

 

[downtown]

I am a Russian citizen.
I am a New Zealand citizen.
And I am an American citizen.

And no, I'm not 16. You might be thinking of Red Stranger or Nonconformist?

Perhaps I'm thinking of Red. But you didnt really answer my question. I'm a dual citizen as well (America and Brazil), but I've never *lived* in Brazil.

Do any countries even reconize citizenships more than two? America doesnt even reconize dual. I'm not sure how you could procure more than 2...

 

[garric]

Perhaps I'm thinking of Red. But you didnt really answer my question. I'm a dual citizen as well (America and Brazil), but I've never *lived* in Brazil.

Do any countries even reconize citizenships more than two? America doesnt even reconize dual. I'm not sure how you could procure more than 2...

Yes I have lived in all three of those countries, as they require a naturalization period before one can become a citizen. Though since I was born in Russia and I am not liable to live there a certain period before becoming a citizen, I did live there. And yes, America DOES recognize dual citizenship. If you wish I could take a picture of me with all three of my passports or something.

 

[C~G]

Well according to Psychological texts at least ones in English anyway(I can't speak for the world community as a whole) Homosexuality is no longer considered a sexual dysfunction, why this is is due to scientific research on the matter. It's considered more as a trait generally these days than a 100% nurtured condition, like left handedness, it's OT so I'll say no more, if your intrested as I said go look it up.

I do know that. But I'm not too fond of the current scene of psychology at all. Simply said, I don't trust those texts. This isn't discredit homosexuality quite contrary even though it might not look like that. The whole system of psychology is full of strange ideas what is normal and what isn't. These things IMHO are much more complicated than currently people are made to believe.
But like said this is OT issue, so we stop.

 

[silver 2039]

Perhaps I ought to be more direct to you. Russia is an advanced country with great influence and power. Iraq is not. Even if you believe you can't export these values to Iraq, you can, through military force. However, you can't do so in Russia.

Russia being an advanced country is debatle it resmbles India a lot more than any first world country, the same goes for thw power and influence part Russia is a shadow of the Soviet Union and has limited influence and power when you compare it with the USSR or USA. Russia's spheres of influence have been largely encorached upon by oter powers namely the US and China.

 

[downtown]

Yes I have lived in all three of those countries, as they require a naturalization period before one can become a citizen. Though since I was born in Russia and I am not liable to live there a certain period before becoming a citizen, I did live there. And yes, America DOES recognize dual citizenship. If you wish I could take a picture of me with all three of my passports or something.

Okay, fine, didnt know where you were born. You can have multiple passports, (I have my Brazilian one here on my desk), and Russia and New Zealand might, but I can assure you, while you live in the US, the US ONLY reconizes you as a US Citizen. While you are in Russia, you are both a Russian and an American I would assume, but they do not care about your other passports in the states

 

[garric]

Russia being an advanced country is debatle it resmbles India a lot more than any first world country, the same goes for thw power and influence part Russia is a shadow of the Soviet Union and has limited influence and power when you compare it with the USSR or USA. Russia's spheres of influence have been largely encorached upon by oter powers namely the US and China.

You underestimate Russia.

No it's not comparable to India.

Sure, Russia doesn't have the influence of the USA, but it is still one of the more influential nations of the world. In the G8 council, I doubt that France, Germany, Japan, or the other countries have more power and influence compared to Russia. Also keep in mind OIL. Russia provides a huge chunk of oil to the countries of Europe, they are dependant on Russia. It also has little debt, among other favorable conditions such as a large land mass and a relatively small population, combined with one of the strongest militaries in the world (and of course nukes).

 

[Fox Mccloud]

Maybe if they didn't have these stupid parades and just be quieter like the straights there would be more tolerance for them?

I mean sure, Yakov loves Vladimir, big deal but why do they have to have a parade in Moscow over it? Iosif and Yekaterina don't have their straight pride parade.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Many here know nothing about Russia. As a Russian I find your attacks offensive. Russia is not intolerant, it just doesn't support homosexuality, and neither do most nations of the world, and neither do I. Please remove your offensive comments from this thread.

Not 'supporting' homosexuality IS intolerant. And countires like the UK and Spain have made legislation allowing gay couples to have a union and prosecute those who discriminate people for being gay.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Maybe if they didn't have these stupid parades and just be quieter like the straights there would be more tolerance for them?

I mean sure, Yakov loves Vladimir, big deal but why do they have to have a parade in Moscow over it? Iosif and Yekaterina don't have their straight pride parade.

They have parades to highlight the fact that gays don't have equal rights.

 

[ComradeDavo]

The people will not care, they will attempt to discredit Russia in any way they so chose to, to fulfil their liberal agendas. I hope the mods close this thread before it gets out of hand.

You can not export ideologies.

You want it closed because it's discussing gay rights in Russia? Thats quite intolerant of you isn't it now?

 

[garric]

Toleration doesn't mean that I have to support it. I can tolerate gays having sex, they can do what they want. When gays try to change my country that's when I draw the line. It's not intolerance, it's having my own beliefs.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Toleration doesn't mean that I have to support it. I can tolerate gays having sex, they can do what they want. When gays try to change my country that's when I draw the line. It's not intolerance, it's having my own beliefs.

It's not just about sex though, it's about gays being treated as sub-humans, being abused because of their sexuality.