House Approves Flag-Burning Amendment

[vikingruler]

I'm not going to restate my entire arugement right now but I will say this. A lot of you have been saying that burning the flag violates freedom of expression, speech, whatever, according to amendment it does. However, IMO burning the flag is crossing the line and therefore it should be banned. I will support this amendment to the end even if no one else does.

 

[10Seven]

I'm not going to restate my entire arugement right now but I will say this. A lot of you have been saying that burning the flag violates freedom of expression, speech, whatever, according to amendment it does. However, IMO burning the flag is crossing the line and therefore it should be banned. I will support this amendment to the end even if no one else does.

I own the flag, I am the flag, and I will do with the flag as I please - as every citizen should.

Next I'll be told whether or not I am allowed to exercise a myriad other prerogatives of citizenship.

Is this a democracy or a despotism? Do I, along with all other citizens rule this nation, or does it rule us?

 

[Raijer]

However, IMO burning the flag is crossing the line and therefore it should be banned.

For all your patiotic fervor, you really seem to be missing the point as to why America is such a great country. America is great because it has codified into law that speech cannot be banned simply because it runs contrary to one man's opinion. Flag burning is one of the most extreme political expressions out there, and where America led the world, and where it sets her apart from the long list of totalitarian regimes still in existence today, is the fact that it remains perfectly legal to make that extreme statement. I just can't fathom why you'd support destroying the very thing that makes this country great.

 

[CurtSibling]

Congress is pushing this amendment in an attempt to convince the voters that the average congresscritter is patriotic.

Top marks.

At least someone can see the true agenda!

 

[vikingruler]

For all your patiotic fervor, you really seem to be missing the point as to why America is such a great country. America is great because it has codified into law that speech cannot be banned simply because it runs contrary to one man's opinion. Flag burning is one of the most extreme political expressions out there, and where America led the world, and where it sets her apart from the long list of totalitarian regimes still in existence today, is the fact that it remains perfectly legal to make that extreme statement. I just can't fathom why you'd support destroying the very thing that makes this country great.

You are looking at the amendment as taking away a freedom I see it as protecting a symbol of freedom. The only way to protect the symbol is to take away a little freedom. You clearly feel that that is wrong and contradicts what America stands for. I think America stands for freedom and liberty but it also has many symbols. I really hope you all think the flag is the #1 symbol of America, therefore it needs protecting and if to protect it some freedom must be taken away I'm fine with that because I know when I trade in a little bit of my freedom I'm allowing a very powerful symbol of America be protected. I also, want to bring back what I said earlier that if you don't want to burn the flag you don't need to worry about the amendment. It is stopping people who were are have burned the flag from doing it again or doing it.

 

[nonconformist]

You are looking at the amendment as taking away a freedom I see it as protecting a symbol of freedom. The only way to protect the symbol is to take away a little freedom.

He who would give away his liberties for a bit of temporary security deserves neither security nor liberty-Benjamin Frankllin.

 

[IglooDame]

You are looking at the amendment as taking away a freedom I see it as protecting a symbol of freedom. The only way to protect the symbol is to take away a little freedom. You clearly feel that that is wrong and contradicts what America stands for. I think America stands for freedom and liberty but it also has many symbols. I really hope you all think the flag is the #1 symbol of America, therefore it needs protecting and if to protect it some freedom must be taken away I'm fine with that because I know when I trade in a little bit of my freedom I'm allowing a very powerful symbol of America be protected.

So if you're willing to trade in "a little bit of your freedom" to do one thing, and Joe over there is willing to trade in "a little bit of his freedom" to do something else, and ditto for Mary, Bob, Peter, and Jane, guess what you have? No freedom and a lot of empty symbolism.

I also, want to bring back what I said earlier that if you don't want to burn the flag you don't need to worry about the amendment. It is stopping people who were are have burned the flag from doing it again or doing it.

Bring it back if you want, but when you do at least respond to this:

I have no plans to publish a newspaper, but I still support the right to freedom of the press. I have no plans to worship a deity, but I still support the right to free exercise of religion. I have no plans to gather with others and demonstrate against a government policy, but I still support the right to peaceably assemble. I have no plans to commit any crimes, but I still support the right to be free from excessive bail (and the host of other rights accorded to accused/convicted felons). And, I had no plans to desecrate the American flag, but I still support the right to free speech in expressing whatever someone thinks they're expressing by desecrating it.

 

[E-Raser]

...Is this a democracy or a despotism? Do I, along with all other citizens rule this nation, or does it rule us?

[off Topic on]
Are you seriously asking?
[/off Topic out]

 

[Timko]

Flag burning is one of the most extreme political expressions out there...

Question for non-USians, do you feel the same way about your flag?

 

[Cu Chulainn]

The only way I would even consider burning the flag is if they passed an amendment making it illegal to do so. For that, to me, would make the flag meaningless in which case it may as well be burned. If I'm not free to do as I please with my own property then I don't think there's much america left.

 

[EdwardTking]

Question for non-USians, do you feel the same way about your flag?

NO, I do not.

 

[Raijer]

You are looking at the amendment as taking away a freedom I see it as protecting a symbol of freedom. The only way to protect the symbol is to take away a little freedom.

Absolutely amazing.

There are two things in question here: 1) a symbol of freedom and 2) real freedom itself. For whatever reason, you refuse to accept the basic fact that between these two things, the most important one is the real deal, the real freedom. Symbols are important, but can never ever be MORE important than the thing they symbolize, and thus if choosing which one needs protecting, it is obvious which one should win out. To choose to protect a symbol OVER the thing it symbolizes is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse.

And eyrei, I'm done beating that horse... promise

 

[Masquerouge]

Question for non-USians, do you feel the same way about your flag?

I'm afraid I don't. In France, you don't display the flag, like on your front yard, or on your car. People who do so, in France, are fascists. That do not mean we don't like our flag or anything, or that we are less patriotic, it's just a cultural thing. We consider flag-waving and anthem-singing activities best suited for major events, mainly sport-related , not for day-to day life.
You'll find French flags, however, on pretty much every government building.

Now whether or not it's a good thing is an entirely different subject

 

[greekguy]

Quick question to everyone who is against the ammendment: Why do you assume that taking away the freedom to burn the American flag will lead to more freedoms being taken away?

 

[Stylesjl]

Quick question to everyone who is against the ammendment: Why do you assume that taking away the freedom to burn the American flag will lead to more freedoms being taken away?

Because we can't take that risk for such a stupid amendment, i always want to protect my "secondary rights" so the government can't get to the primary ones

 

[IglooDame]

Quick question to everyone who is against the ammendment: Why do you assume that taking away the freedom to burn the American flag will lead to more freedoms being taken away?

I play the 'slippery slope' card as much as anyone here, but in this case I don't bother with it - even if I had absolutely trustworthy assurances that this specific case wouldn't lead to more abuse of the 1st amendment, I'd still oppose this because it makes no sense to protect a symbol at the expense of the reality the symbol represents.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Question for non-USians, do you feel the same way about your flag?

I am dutch and I will always be dutch. I have a flag at home and I am a supporter of the Monarchy. I am not always often a supporter of the government, but in general I am a happy dutch citizen.

I'd burn a dutch flag any day of the week. Or an American flag. Or any flag in the world (exception: old flags which have historic value). It has no connection for me with the policies of a government or any principles that country holds.

For me a flag is purely an identification system to know what longitude and latitude on a world map someone's cradle was located or someone's bed is now located, or where someone wants their bed to be located. Nothing more, nothing less. And it is fun to see them raised when someone wins a gold medal on the Olympics.

 

[Stapel]

Question for non-USians, do you feel the same way about your flag?

What same way?
USians can't even express a single way how they feel about theirs!

Anyway, I think our nation sucks a lot, but I don't think there any nations doing better. Ok, maybe a few.
I'm a proud patriotic Dutchman. However, nobody uses that phrase here. That has got something to do with a fight between patriots (those who loved France ) and orangists (those who were in favour of stadtholdership-by-birth to the Orange-Nassau family), by the end of the 18th century.
Today, most patriotic Dutchmen are in favour of the monarchy.

I do regard our flag as symbol of the "Land of the Free", despite the flaws in our Liberties. I think burning it, is insulting, but above all, plain stupid.

However, making it illegal??????? NAh..., get real!


BTW, in 1992, I've burnt a Danish flag , after the semi-final!

 

[Masquerouge]

BTW, in 1992, I've burnt a Danish flag , after the semi-final!

I think all Europe save Denmark burned a Danish flag in 1992

 

[Rambuchan]

Question for non-USians, do you feel the same way about your flag?

This is how I feel about it:

11 pages and counting.