House Approves Flag-Burning Amendment

[GrandAdmiral]

Flag burning is outragous. If you hate America that much move out. If you can't afford to move out, then don't waste your money on matches and a flag next time. Freedom of speech is one thing; burning the symbol of our country's heritage, culture/history, and pride is another. Lines can be drawn with every other situation, this is where the line should be drawn with freedom of expression.

Freedom of speech is one thing, xxx is another. You could make up that kind of justification for bannng just about anything. Your policy would be more welcomed in a place like Cuba. They use the same excuses for their lack of freedom.

 

[vikingruler]

but I should be able to burn whatever the hell I want unless it doesn't endager the life of others. Oh and IT IS just a piece of cloth.

Everyone who is for the Amendment and posted has stressed what the flag stands for and why it ISN'T just a piece of cloth. It stands for democracy, liberty, freedom, all the things America is built on, burning it and this has been said many times, is burning freedom and what America means. You guys have to understand that it isn't a piece of cloth, but symbol for the principles of the United States. BTW if it is a piece of cloth, it isn't, but you guys say it is, what is the point of burning it?

 

[CurtSibling]

Are we all meant to stand and salute now?

Rubbish - It is just a lump of cloth.

America's people are the important thing.
They made the nation, flag or no flag.

.

 

[nonconformist]

I think you're right. I'm just explaining that "but we won't be able to properly dispose of worn flags" is not an argument against the amendment. If you want to oppose it, oppose it based on Stratego/Gothmog's point that people will start burning "almost-flags" instead, and more importantly that it is limiting one of the freedoms that the flag stands for in the first place and turns the symbol into an irony.

I know, and I wasn't picking on you (perish the day that Igloodude doth suupport the curbing of civil liberties), but America has this sort of "Holy Land" mentality, and your post was jsut an easy pick-up point.
I don't think anyone has ever said "God Bless Luxemburg".

 

[Raijer]

Everyone who is for the Amendment and posted has stressed what the flag stands for and why it ISN'T just a piece of cloth. It stands for democracy, liberty, freedom, all the things America is built on, burning it and this has been said many times, is burning freedom and what America means.

Man, you just don't get it, do you? You say the flags stands for "democracy, liberty, freedom, all the things America is built on." Of course, you are totally right. America WAS built on these important principles. But then you propose to stomp all over liberty and freedom in order to protect the thing that symbolizes them. Burning a flag does not harm "liberty" or "freedom" in any way, but what YOU advocate DOES!! This proposal, and the people who support, it are the ones kicking at the foundations of America!

If you take away liberty and freedom, tell me, what does the flag stand for now?

 

[IglooDame]

I know, and I wasn't picking on you (perish the day that Igloodude doth suupport the curbing of civil liberties), but America has this sort of "Holy Land" mentality, and your post was jsut an easy pick-up point.
I don't think anyone has ever said "God Bless Luxemburg".

Yeah, sorry, I've been more defensive than usual lately at the end of a frustrating 90-hr workweek.


But...

England does have their own church, though, right?

I'm sorry. I'll stop now. :suicide:

 

[nonconformist]

England does have their own church, though, right?

Yes, and you will be smited.

 

[vikingruler]

Burning a flag does not harm "liberty" or "freedom" in any way, but what YOU advocate DOES!!QUOTE]

If you burn a flag you are not harming liberty or freedom, but you are harming what it symbolizes, and in the proccess you being disrespectful and desecrating that symbol. You might think that it is just a piece of cloth, and in mine and hopefully every American's, it isn't but something that reminds them of how good America is and all of it's liberties and freedoms. Therefore, you have no right in disrespecting that symbol, and that is what the amendment is trying to stop. It will teach the people that burn flags now, not to, and if more people to it to rebel they will just go to jail.

 

[IglooDame]

If you burn a flag you are not harming liberty or freedom, but you are harming what it symbolizes, and in the proccess you being disrespectful and desecrating that symbol. You might think that it is just a piece of cloth, and in mine and hopefully every American's, it isn't but something that reminds them of how good America is and all of it's liberties and freedoms. Therefore, you have no right in disrespecting that symbol, and that is what the amendment is trying to stop. It will teach the people that burn flags now, not to, and if more people to it to rebel they will just go to jail.

I don't have the right to offend you?

 

[Evie]

A symbol is nothing more than that, a symbol. Sacrificing what it stands for in the name of protecting the symbol shows people who have completely lost any sort of sense of what's important in the world.

I pity such people.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

If you burn a flag you are not harming liberty or freedom, but you are harming what it symbolizes, and in the proccess you being disrespectful and desecrating that symbol.

While flag burners are disrepectful and desecrate the symbol , those who wish to ban flag burning are destroying freedom itself . This is far more sinister and dangerous!

 

[JohnRM]

The American Flag represents an idea that was birthed in 1776, came close to being realized, and is now lost. I say, burn it if it makes you feel good. In fact, we can have an American symbology bonfire. Throw the flag, the Constitution, and the rest of it all up there and burn it all, cause without the preservation of our individual rights and without truth and justice, they are all worthless. This country is losing everything that the American Flag stands for.

 

[CurtSibling]

Sadly I agree.

The great experiment in human liberty is being contaminated by leaders with the hearts of shopkeepers.

 

[vikingruler]

I don't have the right to offend you?

By burning the flag you are not offending me well you are, but the point is that you are disrespecting the flag, the amendment is protecting it from being disrespected.

This country is losing everything that the American Flag stands for.

I sadly have to agree with you. Nonetheless, you can't take what is going on now influence your opinion on the American flag. The flag does not stand for the things happening to today, rather the things that the Founding Fathers created. That is why the flag is so important and shouldn't be disrespected.

 

[Evie]

By banning flag-burning, you only destroy further the freedom it used to stand for, though.

 

[IglooDame]

By burning the flag you are not offending me well you are, but the point is that you are disrespecting the flag, the amendment is protecting it from being disrespected.

...

I sadly have to agree with you. Nonetheless, you can't take what is going on now influence your opinion on the American flag. The flag does not stand for the things happening to today, rather the things that the Founding Fathers created. That is why the flag is so important and shouldn't be disrespected.

It should not be disrespected, you are correct. However, the disrespecting of it is a form of protest by those doing so. "The things that the Founding Fathers created" includes protection by protesters against government oppression and the right to free speech. You think the flag stands for one thing, someone else thinks the flag stands for another. It is a symbol, and symbols are interpreted differently. You are effectively mandating that your interpretation of the symbol is the only permissible one, and that is

But on a larger note, I just don't get how people can think that the symbol is more important than the freedom itself.

 

[vikingruler]

It should not be disrespected, you are correct. You are effectively mandating that your interpretation of the symbol is the only permissible one.

In saying that you agree with me on that it shouldn't be disrespected, you just agreed with my interpretation, contradicting what you said about different interpretatons of the flag. More importantly, my interpretation of the flag is what everyone is saying, it stands for freedom, the people aganist the amendmeant are saying that the amendment destroys that freedom. However, this is not the case, you said you shouldn't disrespect the flag, that should be reason enough to bann it, also it is not killing that freedom because it is protecting the symbol of it, IMO unless you are crazy and just burn the flag because of a disorder, you are burning the flag in spite of America and its liberties, you do not agree that America is free, so why else would you burn the flag just to rebel aganist an amendmeant banning burning a symbol of freedom?

But on a larger note, I just don't get how people can think that the symbol is more important than the freedom itself.

It isn't, but the symbol must be protected because of it is stands for, what I said above is proof that banning flag burning isn't destroying the freedom.

 

[Nobody]

the american flag symbolises the right to burn the american flag

 

[IglooDame]

In saying that you agree with me on that it shouldn't be disrespected, you just agreed with my interpretation, contradicting what you said about different interpretatons of the flag. More importantly, my interpretation of the flag is what everyone is saying, it stands for freedom, the people aganist the amendmeant are saying that the amendment destroys that freedom. However, this is not the case, you said you shouldn't disrespect the flag, that should be reason enough to bann it, also it is not killing that freedom because it is protecting the symbol of it, IMO unless you are crazy and just burn the flag because of a disorder, you are burning the flag in spite of America and its liberties, you do not agree that America is free, so why else would you burn the flag just to rebel aganist an amendmeant banning burning a symbol of freedom?

I apparently haven't been clear. I agree that it shouldn't be disrespected, but I do not agree that disrespecting it should be made illegal. Surely you can think of annoying, rude, offensive activities that aren't and shouldn't be made crimes, right?

No, your interpretation is not "what everyone is saying" - it may be the majority, but it is not 100%. And you persist in thinking that your interpretation of why people are burning it is the only possible interpretation. I can think of many others.

But alas, I think we have come to the point where we are just flinging our arguments against each other and resolution is not possible, so I'll stop arguing with you.

 

[Masquerouge]

What I really find amusing about this whole thing is that on the one hand, the conservatives think the Constitution is much too sacred to be modified when it comes to guns and the 2nd Amendment (Our Founding Fathers wrote it ! It's Sacred ! From my cold dead hands !) but on the other hand have no trouble modifying it for petty matters that suit the current mood.