How do YOU measure quality of life?

[yung.carl.jung]

I routinely revel in joy despite of what is going on, so I really don't think there are many material conditions for me besides like.. absence of pain. and, obviously, freedom of agency.

Nassim Taleb has a list and checking it off is my goal in life.

You know he's right.

Muscle strength
No Meeting Rooms
No Gym Classes

...WTH? this is so oddly specific. and also really not stuff that makes me happy. thanks, I'll pass

I do agree with him about crusty bread though. crusty bread and some cheese is enoug to get my heart pounding.

Less stress

Stress is a good mectric, I agree

 

[dusters]

I feel happy if my conscience tells me I'm doing alright. My actions, words, thoughts and intentions radiate Love.

 

[Hrothbern]

Stress is a good mectric, I agree

Is Stress as metric S.M.A.R.T.
How do you measure properly ?

And is stress bad ?
or is a lack of control by yourself on your stress bad ?

You can see stress as a way of giving gas up to full throttle if needed
It's more I think about who controls the throttle and the brakes.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Why would anyone pick a gym class over hiking or climbing, though?

lack of legs, for example

Is Stress as metric S.M.A.R.T.
How do you measure properly ?

And is stress bad ?
or is a lack of control by yourself on your stress bad ?

You can see stress as a way of giving gas up to full throttle if needed
It's more I think about who controls the throttle and the brakes.

yes, I think stress is strictly bad. unless you are under a life-threatening situation.

stress is known to negatively affect just about any performance. it is not "full throttle". it is not a "performance booster." those are old ideas that do not hold up to our physical and clinical evidence.

we know for a fact students that are stressed have worse information retention, study worse, do worse on tests. people who are stressed at work do more mistakes. they may work faster, sure, but which one of the two is more important?

it is both physically and psychologically damaging. people thought the same thing about aggression for hundreds of years.. people just need to "let it out" and things get better, turns out that idea does not hold up to clinical evidence. a lot of our assumptions about the human psyche were just that, assumptions.

stress is definitely measurably, both empirically and in a psychological examination.

I think there is a correlation between stress and "higher performance" or productivity, as you say. people that are stressed in their job might work harder because they're scared of losing their position. is that desirable? I do not think so.

or is a lack of control by yourself on your stress bad ?

Stress today results often from environmental factors: Noise pollution, Air pollution, too much Blue light, the Attention Economy, about a lot of those things you cannot do much. I think again it is wrong to think one can control how much stress one experiences. That is not true. One can control how to cope with stress, sure, but not whether we experience stress.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Cortisol is the culprit with stress and too much of it for too long not healthy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allostatic_load

 

[Hrothbern]

yes, I think stress is strictly bad. unless you are under a life-threatening situation.

Stress today results often from environmental factors: Noise pollution, Air pollution, too much Blue light, the Attention Economy, about a lot of those things you cannot do much. I think again it is wrong to think one can control how much stress one experiences. That is not true. One can control how to cope with stress, sure, but not whether we experience stress.

Apparently I have to dig in

still as snapshot now:


Sustained stress from physical factors like noise pollution, air pollution, other pollutions, inadeqyate food and so many more... yes ... an out of control mostly low level of stress. And it all adds up with other factors.
Sustained stress from social factors of the survival mode kind... yes... all typical out of control.

Where do coping strategies, habits end... and where do "take back control" strategies begin ?

When I am in the boxing ring, and playing above my league, and get cornered, underarms before my face and only receiving... I am coping with the situation.
When I step out of that boxing ring (above my league) I am free again.


A lot about having control on stress is about choosing (when possible) in how many and which boxing rings you play.
In fact: can you accept that certain boxing rings are not for you... or not now for you... or only do-able when you skip some other boxing rings.
I think we overload ourselves with choosing to play in too many and/or to difficult boxing rings.
Our budget is limited.
As long as you are on top of things many things happening well will add energy... when you are no longer on top you got yourself an energy drain.

I see it also a bit like marathon fat burning to get energy, and bloodsugar burning for sprints needing very high energy and lastly the lactid acid metabolism as last reserve to get high energy for a bit longer period than a sprint.
Our body designed for foraging at walking speed or during hunting at jogging speed. Sprints as exception during foraging and regularly during hunting.

You can sprint as you like as long as you do it not too much. Too much... and you are too much out of your breath and more things go wrong and you need to push harder... etc.
But being continuous out of your breath is NOT the normal situation.

I think that what you say applies NOT to the normal situation we SHOULD be in.

Bad stress level is a cultural disease, but you can still make choices there besides coping with it. Though not everybody has the same scope of choices, the same base level of energy, the same recuperation level (think about the Tour deFrance).
Life is very unfair in that respect. Social cohesion has always been a mitigator for that.

 

[Hygro]

While I’m on Taleb’s list, I like eating alone often as well.

Overall I still agree.


But ultimately my quickest way of comparing national quality of life averages is going to be GDP.

 

[Socrates99]

While I’m on Taleb’s list, I like eating alone often as well.

Overall I still agree.


But ultimately my quickest way of comparing national quality of life averages is going to be GDP.

GDP? How?

 

[Lemon Merchant]

My quality of life amount to three things:

1. Am I happy?
2. Am I healthy?
3. Do I have enough money?

I have 2 and 3 covered, but #1 eludes me.

 

[Hygro]

GDP? How?

It’s a secret.

 

[civvver]

Stress is not always bad, sometimes stress is the impetus for change in a good direction.

Stress a long time ago was important for our survival. Oh you're stressed cus of lack of resource X, it heightens your senses and makes you go find some more of resource X. It's like a fight or flight mentality.

The problem is today we typically live under constant stress. We're always in fight or flight mode which is really unhealthy. We're that way because as consumers we're always trying to contribute and get paid and get more. No one ever seems to have enough to just slow down and enjoy it.

 

[Narz]

lack of legs, for example



yes, I think stress is strictly bad. unless you are under a life-threatening situation.

stress is known to negatively affect just about any performance. it is not "full throttle". it is not a "performance booster." those are old ideas that do not hold up to our physical and clinical evidence.

we know for a fact students that are stressed have worse information retention, study worse, do worse on tests. people who are stressed at work do more mistakes. they may work faster, sure, but which one of the two is more important?

it is both physically and psychologically damaging. people thought the same thing about aggression for hundreds of years.. people just need to "let it out" and things get better, turns out that idea does not hold up to clinical evidence. a lot of our assumptions about the human psyche were just that, assumptions.

stress is definitely measurably, both empirically and in a psychological examination.

I think there is a correlation between stress and "higher performance" or productivity, as you say. people that are stressed in their job might work harder because they're scared of losing their position. is that desirable? I do not think so.



Stress today results often from environmental factors: Noise pollution, Air pollution, too much Blue light, the Attention Economy, about a lot of those things you cannot do much. I think again it is wrong to think one can control how much stress one experiences. That is not true. One can control how to cope with stress, sure, but not whether we experience stress.

Stress is fun, things that involve no stress are usually not fun.

Working out = stress, difficult conversations = stress, sports or mind sports = stress, challenging work = stress

All about quantity, if you're up to the task you go into a flow state, too much or too little and you're either anxious or bored.

 

[Narz]

My quality of life amount to three things:

1. Am I happy?
2. Am I healthy?
3. Do I have enough money?

I have 2 and 3 covered, but #1 eludes me.

Wish I could sell you some

 

[H4run]

Stress is fun, things that involve no stress are usually not fun.

Working out = stress, difficult conversations = stress, sports or mind sports = stress, challenging work = stress

All about quantity, if you're up to the task you go into a flow state, too much or too little and you're either anxious or bored.

True, sometime I've been thinking about free time and money, but I guess those two are not defined life's quality.

After a long tired day, even watching series feels so good, you feel like you deserve it, it's the margin between stress and relieve the one that gives you the quality.

Without stressors, people become fragile and gloomy, their tolerance of stress turned so low, their expectation of pleasure turned so high, in the end even they don't even know what the hey they want.

Only after hardship, you can find your ease.

 

[Narz]

Yeah humans need challenge, without it... well there is no without it, we invent drama if life doesn't present it to us... some even resort to arguing on the internet to create stress & drama in their lives!

 

[H4run]

Yeah humans need challenge, without it... well there is no without it, we invent drama if life doesn't present it to us... some even resort to arguing on the internet to create stress & drama in their lives!

Rethinking about this issue, I thought, basic life necessity do marked the bottom, your mind power and immense gratefulness would not able to help you gaining life's quality if say, you even unable to pull your daily bread, but it can surely help you to go through the struggle, until the storm finally lifted.

Imagine Solzhenitsyn in Gulag, or Frankl in Auschwitz, when they are there, their mental power was not used to gain the quality life in the prison/camp, but they used their mental power and their willingness to keep on living to keep their sanity and to go out alive from there. We whine through our suffering but in the end, it's pretty much the thing that we suffered that brings us the quality that we have today. There is always ease that come after the hardship, there is always a relieve that comes after stress, we can always pull that off if we have the ability to pull that off.

After the bottom of life necessity is fulfilled, that is where being grateful, our ability to withstand hardship and how de-attached we are to our surrounding play important role on defining the quality of our life. But basic health is quite serious topic.

Like I can tolerate the fact that I suffered some amount of pain whenever I get up, or whenever I lifted up something, or by the fact that I cannot do the sport that I like and I cannot build muscle as I love to and other things like that that usually makes me happy and healthy, but I can live and happy without all of that.

But I don't know if I can tolerate it if I end up just laying down on my bed unable even to sit down. I think again, if that scenario ever happened, being grateful for what I have, not for what I don't have still able to make me pull through even through that, and it may sound bit egoistical, but looking at someone who suffered worst than you and they can go through it better than you also makes you feel motivated. In this case, it's look like a stressors without relieve, a hardship without ease, or perhaps even behind the lack of basic health and behind the constant suffering from that, there is a relieve? I believe there should be, but I just cannot pointed it out where it's yet.

 

[Hrothbern]

Imagine Solzhenitsyn in Gulag, or Frankl in Auschwitz, when they are there, their mental power was not used to gain the quality life in the prison/camp, but they used their mental power and their willingness to keep on living to keep their sanity and to go out alive from there

During WW2 some judges of the Netherlands were deported to a concentration camp.
They all struggled for life, they all had their nights with dreams of that cake with lots of fruit and cream. Being luckily together in one camp, they took up the project to revise our Dutch Civil Law book. Stay human of mind and soul.
Not WW2, but time had overrun the fabric of our Civil Law book, based on the 19th century.
The survivors took that with them when back in post-war society and brought their thoughts on modernisation in consistency with past and each other, to the political parties and Parliament, our lawmakers.

And yes... that mental effort gives sanity.... and energy to survive... also in an insane situation.

 

[H4run]

And yes... that mental effort gives sanity.... and energy to survive... also in an insane situation.

Good example, even through their mental strength they have the ability to create something constructive out of something insanely destructive.

Mental toughness is like muscle, the devoid of any stressors would results fragility, while taking stressors beyond its capability to cope would results on a mental injury (insanity, trauma, retracting from reality, isolation, social distrust) but a proper amount of stress would strengthen it, and gives us a feeling of content and achievement.

In many cases our source of suffering and our source of content are the same. The job position that we whine over, is the same position that we proud of or benefit from. The spouse that we sometime having an argument with, is the same spouse that gives us feeling of belonging and warmness. The investment that we feel insecure from, it's also the source of our feeling of security. The suffering that those judges suffered, is also the very reason that makes their name written in the golden ink of history.

Our ability to cope with problem would defined how content we are with life. That's what I thought. If through intense pressure we see nothing but darkness, we cannot pulled any benefit from our suffering, we would be broken.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Stress is fun, things that involve no stress are usually not fun.

Working out = stress, difficult conversations = stress, sports or mind sports = stress, challenging work = stress

All about quantity, if you're up to the task you go into a flow state, too much or too little and you're either anxious or bored.

sorry but it seems you don't really understand stress as a phenomenon or what drives it.

just as an easy example of a physiological misunderstanding: working out does not cause stress. working out causes muscle strain, which is completely different and has nothing to do with stress. working out is empirically proven to be a way to reduce stress.

the same goes for your example of challenging work. challenging work does not in itself create stress. in fact, stress only occurs when the person in question thinks the challenge is too much, unsurmountable, when there is a negative psychological backlash. challenge does not inherently cause stress.

lastly, you misrepresent the psychological phenomenon of flow. flow has absolutely nothing to do with stress and everything to do with challenge, skill, and continuously setting goals to activate the reward center of your brain. read some Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi if you are interested, he coined the phenomenon.

Stress is fun, things that involve no stress are usually not fun.

sex usually does not involve stress, at least for me it doesn't.. neither does eating good food. yeah, sorry, but your post is kind of bollocks. not scientifically right and not right in any other way, either.

I agree that life needs challenge, but challenge does not equal stress. @Birdjaguar also gave some good clues as to where stress comes from physiologically.

Stress a long time ago was important for our survival. Oh you're stressed cus of lack of resource X, it heightens your senses and makes you go find some more of resource X. It's like a fight or flight mentality.

This is a more correct interpretation of stress than Narzs. indeed the fight and flight response used to be the main driving force behind stress. today that is not really true, however.

GDP? How?

idk either, seems like a brainfart, especially for Hygro.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Without stressors, people become fragile and gloomy

The opposite is true. You're pretty much just repeating this meme

we know for a fact that consistent exposure to high levels of stress will literally make people fragile and depressed. there is scientific consensus on that.

sorry, but the exact opposite of what you say is reality.you can maybe argue that coddling creates fragile and weak people, sure, but it has literally nothing to do with stress. constant stress only creates damaged people, that is a fact.

Only after hardship, you can find your ease.

don't equal hardship and stress. every life needs hardship and suffering to be meaningful, but no one needs elevated levels of stress to feel alive. that is some Joe Rogan type **** (so not surprised Narz shows this position, but I am surprised you did).

We whine through our suffering but in the end, it's pretty much the thing that we suffered that brings us the quality that we have today

That is not true. In most cases, it was the suffering of other people that brought me, or anyone else, my quality of life. Lots of people never suffer or have to endure hardship, yet are born into wealth and priviledge.

There is always ease that come after the hardship, there is always a relieve that comes after stress, we can always pull that off if we have the ability to pull that off.

tell that to a child factory slave worker, or someone who was forced into prostitution. no, for some people life is just pain. for some people there is no ease after hardship. I don't want to be an ass to you, but it seems this is just some fairy-tale version of fate. the truth is that a lot of people suffer for no reason at all, they never did anything wrong. and some people suffer until they die. QED Frankl and the concentration camp. how many people deserved to be there? how many got out and saw the "ease after hardship", less than 10%?

I, too, read Frankl and he profoundly influenced me. however, Frankl is advocating the opposite of what you say. Frankl never said that his hardships were justified. His entire point is to try your best to find purpose in your life even if you are suffering. The suffering might not end.

Wish I could say more but I do not have the time.