How is your EU3 Game going?

[Heretic_Cata]

Game over. Forgot to take maps tho.

Muscovy collapsed in small states as well, giving me the opportunity to take Judea and a few more provinces in the Levant. Also got Venice which had to move it's capital in some godforsaken province in northern Canada . And annexed Naples who had the Island of Sicily. And vassalized a few african nations.
Had a great game !


Now i'm not sure with who i should start next.

Should i start with a muslim power: Mamluks, Ottomans ? I want someone easy.

Should i start in some northern lands and get into Protestantism/Reformed ?

Should i start with Muscovy ? They seem easier than my other options.

Should i start in some far off land to the east ?

What i'm looking for obviously is an easy game but non-west europe. I'm still a beginner and haven't tested all the things.
Or should i install a mod like Death&Taxes or smthing ?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Try Hungary
And to be fair, I will play with Wallachia in my next game

 

[Angst]

I'd play vanilla a few more times. Wait with the mods until vanilla is boring.

I like playing as Denmark (Surprise) and personally found Ottomans really challenging. You could also try an HRE nation and try uniting the empire, however that requires some knowledge of how to abuse the game properly.

Never finished the Ottomans game, but crashed and burned after getting in war with every European power ever.

 

[uat2d]

Had a great game !

You did? I thought you were too scared of Britain to enjoy it

Now i'm not sure with who i should start next.

Try Benin, form Germany.

Spoiler :

Should i start with a muslim power: Mamluks, Ottomans ? I want someone easy.

Should i start in some northern lands and get into Protestantism/Reformed ?

Should i start with Muscovy ? They seem easier than my other options.

Should i start in some far off land to the east ?

If Benin proves difficult, try Trebizond, you'll start in Anatolia and with plenty of room to expand as you border the hordes and they're basically just waiting to be colonised.

If you really want an easy game, I'll have to suggest you Chimu, you'll have the Incas right next door and they're push overs.

What i'm looking for obviously is an easy game but non-west europe. I'm still a beginner and haven't tested all the things.

Practice makes perfect, go on. Post results.

Or should i install a mod like Death&Taxes or smthing ?

No, that mod is awful, more like Deaf in Texas, it has an awful filter, idiot decisions (LOL Austro-Hungarian culture!) and it's incredibly easy because they AI just can't play it.

The most I'd advise you is a better map, perhaps DAO-Lite or Canomer Map. Other than that, the mods suck and completely break the balance of the game.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The most I'd advise you is a better map, perhaps DAO-Lite or Canomer Map. Other than that, the mods suck and completely break the balance of the game.

Yeah, I was also unstatisfied with most mods
On the other hand the map is awful in the vanilla game
Is there a separate map mod for Divine Wind with the Magna Mundi map?
Or something at least as accurate as the Magna Mundi map?

 

[civ_king]

You did? I thought you were too scared of Britain to enjoy it



Try Benin, form Germany.

Spoiler :

If Benin proves difficult, try Trebizond, you'll start in Anatolia and with plenty of room to expand as you border the hordes and they're basically just waiting to be colonised.

If you really want an easy game, I'll have to suggest you Chimu, you'll have the Incas right next door and they're push overs.



Practice makes perfect, go on. Post results.



No, that mod is awful, more like Deaf in Texas, it has an awful filter, idiot decisions (LOL Austro-Hungarian culture!) and it's incredibly easy because they AI just can't play it.

The most I'd advise you is a better map, perhaps DAO-Lite or Canomer Map. Other than that, the mods suck and completely break the balance of the game.

A lot has changed since you last played

 

[uat2d]

On the other hand the map is awful in the vanilla game
Is there a separate map mod for Divine Wind with the Magna Mundi map?
Or something at least as accurate as the Magna Mundi map?

The ones I mentioned are quite good, DAO Lite or CanOmer.

A lot has changed since you last played

I know, and it's unfortunate that it continued to change for the worse. I mean, have you even look at that crap filter? That on its own makes one sick. Even if you don't care about that, the AI can't play it and the game is utterly broken is.

Lukew had some good ideas at start but he kept on failing tremendously in implementing them and the whole thing is just a mess beyond any salvation now.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The ones I mentioned are quite good, DAO Lite or CanOmer

Ehh, Hungary is quite badly represented on both
Magna Mundi did it much better for central and eastern europe
Thanks for the links though

 

[Choeimok]

Just how did you do that Benin game? I love playing crappy countries, but I probably couldn't even do that on very easy difficulty.

 

[Arakhor]

What do you mean about the "crap filter"?

 

[Angst]

I'd argue it's different strokes for different people. I found D&T a "better version of vanilla" basically, where it simply improved where things lacked, but it didn't completely overhaul some of the things that needed overhaul.

Its issues are basically speed issues (Sometimes the engine handles things a tad slower, just to the edge of annoyment, but nothing too bad) and then the stupid end date extension; I mean, if it's true that tech levels don't proceed after Napoleon.

 

[civ_king]

I'd argue it's different strokes for different people. I found D&T a "better version of vanilla" basically, where it simply improved where things lacked, but it didn't completely overhaul some of the things that needed overhaul.

Its issues are basically speed issues (Sometimes the engine handles things a tad slower, just to the edge of annoyment, but nothing too bad) and then the stupid end date extension; I mean, if it's true that tech levels don't proceed after Napoleon.

What things needed overhauling?

It's a lot better than Magna Mundi in terms of speed

 

[Angst]

Better colonial/midtoendgame warfare and better AI, basically; it would solve most of the game's problems that I care not to mention right now. Things are too easy. I think that EU4's coalition system might solve this, however, and I can't wait.

More detailed internal management that decreases necessity to blob would be really, really nice too.

But I don't play Magna Mundi and have no intention to. I play D&T myself and are trying out a few mods, but I think that calling it flawed doesn't really takes its good things properly into account.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Try Hungary
And to be fair, I will play with Wallachia in my next game

At first glance, playing as Hungary doesn't seem to be that much different from playing with any of the western powers. Playing as Walachia seems a bit too challenging for my level ... for now.

I'd play vanilla a few more times. Wait with the mods until vanilla is boring.

I like playing as Denmark (Surprise) and personally found Ottomans really challenging. You could also try an HRE nation and try uniting the empire, however that requires some knowledge of how to abuse the game properly.

Never finished the Ottomans game, but crashed and burned after getting in war with every European power ever.

I don't want to try any of the HRE powers. Not sure why, i don't even understand the mechanics of the HRE, but they somehow annoy the hell out of me.
I think i will start as the Ottomans because they seem halfway toward the west. I mean that i probably won't lag behind the rest of the world in a HORRIBLE way.



Is an Ottoman game without westernisation possible ? Or should i aim for that as soon as i can ?
Can i get some starting tips for longterm goals on the Ottomans please ?

You did? I thought you were too scared of Britain to enjoy it

I never start a war that isn't necessary.

Try Benin, form Germany.

If Benin proves difficult, try Trebizond, you'll start in Anatolia and with plenty of room to expand as you border the hordes and they're basically just waiting to be colonised.

If you really want an easy game, I'll have to suggest you Chimu, you'll have the Incas right next door and they're push overs.

If i'd want a difficult game i'd try one of the Romanian countries.

 

[Angst]

Always aim for Westernization. It requires a lot of work, but it's something you just do if possible.

 

[Nintz]

The Ottomans should have tech issues similar to Russia. That is a problem long-term.

The best way to play an Ottoman game from what I've seen is either

a) westernize asap. Continue from there.

b) Conquer Europe before it is a problem.

 

[Quintillus]

I'd say that yes, a game as the Ottomans without Westernization is possible, particularly if you go Free Trade and get lots of income that way.

How soon to aim for westernization as the Ottomans depends. The Ottoman military units in the early-mid game are equal to and at some points superior to western ones, so in some ways it's advantageous to not modernize militarily. But, if you westernize technologically and hold off militarily, you'll have the +50% stability cost modifier, which can be a big pain as the Ottomans, since the Ottomans in general have pretty high stability costs. So, there's an argument to be made for not making westernization a top priority. Nevertheless, unless you own the trading game, you'll eventually fall behind technologically without westernizing.

In the current multiplayer games as the Ottomans, I westernized (technologically) around 1550. At the time, my tech level averaged about 11, and European tech levels averaged just under 18. You could likely westernize a few decades sooner if focused on it, and with a focus more on the economy than expansion, you could stay closer in tech. But despite the overall gap, I beat all the European powers to Land Tech 18, so militarily it was possible to stay relevant despite a lack of a tech focus. IMO the Ottomans are also a bit better off than Russia in techs. Russia is in a marginally better tech group by tech cost, but the Ottomans have equal-or-better sliders (depending on Novgorod v. Muscowy), better starting techs and city improvements, and richer lands.

At the Ottomans, also be aware that the partially-westernized 50% stability penalty and a 50% overextension penalty really adds up. The Ottomans already start with +20% stability costs from Jizya, and have several other generally-beneficial decisions that increase stability costs. I've spent many a year investing solely in stabilty, even with adopting Church Attendance Duty.

So, I disagree with Angst (who for so many years was known as lord_joakim! It is a strange adjustment). For the easiest time, always westernize (although not always at the soonest opportunity). But, for an added and perhaps historical challenge, you can often refrain from westernization and still be competitive. I westernized in the MP game mainly because I knew I'd regret it sooner or later with human opponents if I didn't. And I'd generally recommend it as the Ottomans. But it is optional. You can be competitive, albeit less so, without it.

Long-term goals?

• Shore up Asia Minor and the Balkans. Do what you can to make sure no big European power (*cough* Castille *cough* England *cough*) gets a foothold. Be aware that Defenders of the Fatih (*cough* Castille *cough* tend to be irksomely stubborn in peace negotiations.
• Make sure that you can always reinforce your European lands from your Asian lands, and vice versa. This can be by naval strength or control of the lands north of the Black Sea, but you don't want someone occupying all your European lands and not being able to reinforce them due to the Dardanelles
• Egypt and the Levant should likely be a target at some point. Decent land, stronger navies, and a bigger power base in general. North Africa is worth considering long-term for control of the Mediterranean
• You have a choice with the Hordes (usually - sometimes they give you no choice). You can get a lot of land for no infamy from them, but it takes a lot of work and, at least with the Timurids, will slow you down elsewhere early game. I went east to India in the MP game and secured the better part of India for the Ottomans - a rich land, and Persia is not bad, either. Going north could let you get nearly all of Siberia, as an alternate history. But both will sap resources from the west.
• Arabia is of debatable value, but is a nice area that would be of interest once Egypt's mostly secured.
• Of course, there's the option of going in to Europe - first Vienna, then perhaps Italy? I did this in my first EU2 game. Doing this too early might be anti-climactic, as Europe would be weak.
• Broadly speaking, success as the Ottomans is being stronger than the Austrians. Secondarily, also being stronger than any Russian power. Tertiarily, also being stronger than any Persian power.

The Ottomans aren't well-suited to New World colonization, but if they get to the Red Sea or Persian Gulf in decent time, can beat the Europeans to a good chunk of the East Indies. Being a first-rate colonizer would be an unconventional and somewhat challenging long-term goal.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I'm not sure i understand how westernization works it seems. I thought you just had to be 20 tech levels behind a neighbour for that to be available. How exactly do i aim for that ? Deliberately staying behind in tech while focusing on other stuff ? Also, i don't see the westernize the military policy yet.

Started the game - i'm not going to aim to get much of Europe. The Balkans and maybe go north a bit. I don't intend to challenge Austria - for now they seem to focus on wars with Italian countries.
I had un unlucky start as 2 events caused my stability to drop by 2 points - so my first 5 years in the game will be investing all the way into stability.
Got the vassalize Walachia mission - did that. Now i have the conquer Greece mission so i declared war on Venice to do that. In a few turns the whole of Europe was against me but strangely enough it was none of the major powers (no France/Castille/Britain/Austria) - just 20 small states from everywhere and Venice. Next thing i knew all my provinces were under siege by international armies ! None of them were a match for my stack of doom, but i had problems with my navy and being everywhere at once. And christ, Venice was a b***h at the negotiation table. I conquered all their lands except their 2 italian provinces and they didn't even want a white peace. I had to concede defeat (just the prestige hit) with a lot of countries to leave Venice isolated. It the end i got 3 greek provinces out of that war.
Next up, mercykill the Byzantine Empire as soon as the truce expires.

Some more questions tho.
Should i make greek as my dominant culture ? I'm not really sure how that would be a good thing especially since i aim to head east once the Balkans are stabilized.
Had the opportunity to annex the Knights of Rhodes but got lots of warnings saying everyone will be pissed of me if i did that. I settled for vassalization for now. Didn't know they were so important.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Man, i really hate the Timurids. In my game as Spain they collapsed quite quickly for some unknown reason. Now they seem to kick everyone around. Wasted 5 years on a very taxing war, nearly lost all my manpower twice, and the end result is a concession of defeat, 1 province gained and 6 inflation because of random events.

And what the hell is up with all the negative events. I think i get one every year that either makes my stability drop or inflation.

 

[uat2d]

I thought you just had to be 20 tech levels behind a neighbour for that to be available. How exactly do i aim for that ? Deliberately staying behind in tech while focusing on other stuff ?

I think any tech counts for that, if you're 15 on G/P/T/L/N and you border a country that's 20 on everything, you'll be 25 techs behind. When I'm not playing an European country I almost always ignore Naval as I won't be colonising much and so that helps with the westernisation process.

Also, i don't see the westernize the military policy yet.

First you need to westernise your tech level, only then you'll be able to westernise the military.

Beware that it will drop your stability immensely, give you an huge penalty to stability and for you to get rid of the westernisation process penalties you'll either have to delay westernisation or go through with the military modernisation which will require a leader with 7 administrative, full stability and -3 centralisation.

Some more questions tho.
Should i make greek as my dominant culture ?

No.

As you have Turkish culture, cultural assimilation will be somewhat easier on any province in Turkey.

Had the opportunity to annex the Knights of Rhodes but got lots of warnings saying everyone will be pissed of me if i did that. I settled for vassalization for now. Didn't know they were so important.

No! It always says that, it's always "if we annex, people won't be pleased" though that's nonsense, nobody ever cares and it won't affect you in the slightest!

If you had already attacked them and instead you vassalised them, that was an huge mistake, you got much more infamy that way and now you have a puny vassal which could be your land and that you'll never get to incorporate because it's another religion.

What you should do is wait till the truce ends and cancel vassalisation, annex them for only 2 infamy with the Holy War cb. And hurry, this needs to be done before 1650.

Man, i really hate the Timurids. In my game as Spain they collapsed quite quickly for some unknown reason. Now they seem to kick everyone around. Wasted 5 years on a very taxing war, nearly lost all my manpower twice, and the end result is a concession of defeat, 1 province gained and 6 inflation because of random events.

Yeah, them and the Golden Horde can mess you up.

And what the hell is up with all the negative events. I think i get one every year that either makes my stability drop or inflation.

Stop looking at the sky!!