How much is enough when disciplining a child?

[IglooDame]

Egads, this is worse than the abortion debate - either the parent is cruel and unthinking, or society is intruding upon parents' rights. Except... ummm... the spanking parents (I'm guessing they tend to be pro-lifers) are highlighting a parent's right to choose what is best, and the anti-spankers (mostly pro-choicers it seems) are arguing that society has a responsibility to prevent what they see as a crime.

I am not sure whether I'd use spanking as a childrearing tool. I do know my wife, the mother of two daughters (who are ~20yearsold) has used spanking, and follows one cardinal rule regarding it above all else: never spank while angry.

 

[.Shane.]

Schools arent allowed to use violence in the U.S either. Unless its some private school were they specifically allow that thing.

Except in the US the reason for that is very different. In most European countries I'd imagine the underlying reason for banning spanking in schools is social belief that its inappropriate, where in the US the motivation would be the fear of a lawsuit.

 

[Rambuchan]

And those are the main results you are happy with in raising children?
For me my goals of raising children is to encourage self-exploration and development, positive views, ability to think and make decisions and other characteristical developments. I want them to be good human beings and not human beings that the outside world thinks good off (although that is a supplementary goal).

"Respect" & "obedience" I associate with soldiers, not people.

I think those two last ones fall under at least one category of competition in Crufts.

And I agree with the desired qualities you've stated as goals in a raising a child. Much more important than raising them to be a dog.

 

[Masquerouge]

I think light spanking, or a slap on the hand, works wonders for little kids. The goal is not to hurt them, of course. Kids are testing their limits, and it should be very clear when they break them. So if they keep on doing bad things after you warned them and explained to them why it's wrong... spanking!
I know my parents used it and I do not blame them one iota.

 

[El_Machinae]

Igloo: I don't fit your stereotype!

 

[ComradeDavo]

And those are the main results you are happy with in raising children?
For me my goals of raising children is to encourage self-exploration and development, positive views, ability to think and make decisions and other characteristical developments. I want them to be good human beings and not human beings that the outside world thinks good off (although that is a supplementary goal).
"Respect" & "obedience" I associate with soldiers, not people.

Gotta agree with you here Rik.

 

[MobBoss]

"Respect" & "obedience" I associate with soldiers, not people.

I assure you, if the world had far more "respect and obedience" it would be a far better place than it is today. Both are excellent qualities in a person...not just in soldiers.

 

[MobBoss]

Egads, this is worse than the abortion debate - either the parent is cruel and unthinking, or society is intruding upon parents' rights. Except... ummm... the spanking parents (I'm guessing they tend to be pro-lifers) are highlighting a parent's right to choose what is best, and the anti-spankers (mostly pro-choicers it seems) are arguing that society has a responsibility to prevent what they see as a crime.

I am not sure whether I'd use spanking as a childrearing tool. I do know my wife, the mother of two daughters (who are ~20yearsold) has used spanking, and follows one cardinal rule regarding it above all else: never spank while angry.

Uhm...I seem to recall you saying something about spanking a certain someone at home....

I assume you never spank while angry either correct...

 

[IglooDame]

Igloo: I don't fit your stereotype!

And not everyone will, but ya gotta admit, it an interesting case of the shoe definitely being on the other foot, for both sides.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I assure you, if the world had far more "respect and obedience" it would be a far better place than it is today. Both are excellent qualities in a person...not just in soldiers.

Far more boring place more like.

 

[MobBoss]

I think those two last ones fall under at least one category of competition in Crufts.

And I agree with the desired qualities you've stated as goals in a raising a child. Much more important than raising them to be a dog.

As a quick FYI to you here...professional dog trainers dont beat their dogs...they use reward and reinforcement to modify behavior. So, parents that DONT spank their kids raise them as they would a dog...not the reverse.

 

[Rambuchan]

Uhm...you didnt say anything about schools earlier...you just said it was illegal.

Well I was partly right then wasn't I?

I think I know my kids far better than you do. Unless of course you think you have a lot in common with pre-teen girls....which is a possibility I guess.

Are you trying to imply I'm some kind of paedophile?

Now wait. You said he stated beforehand the number of whacks and never exceeded it. How does that equate with "lose control"?

Read it again. I didn't say that he actually lost control.

Seems to me I recall Jesus giving out "whacks" to the coin sellers...

Yeah, that was him actually losing control.

Its not the first nor the last time this will occur I predict.

Sure, I'm human and I make mistakes and I don't pretend otherwise and I don't mind admitting it. *shrugs* I'll predict that there will be many more people who read your posts in this thread and take a very dim view of your policies.

 

[Paalikles]

MobBoss, I certainly understand the word ignorant. And if I thought you were referring to me as a stupid person, I would ignore you all together.

You use the word, as you note that I do not have children myself, thus I do not know what I am talking about. You are right that I do not have children, nor have I experience in parenting. I object to not knowing what I talk about, as I do not exist in a vacuum, and I am able to both read, see and interprate what is going on around me

Well, since you claim to be religious, perhaps appealing to Christian morals would be appropriate here:

"Treat others only in ways that you're willing to be treated in the same exact situation."

Well, I am not a Christian myself, but this sounds allright to me. Let us place this in the setting of parenting:

When I say that it is wrong to use force, I say that as a pacifist. I can not use force or take lives - as I have said in other threads. But those threads often discuss using force against adults.

Now we are discussing children. I am 24 years old. And I assume you are closer to 40, perhaps more. But I assume you will agree that children are not as strong as adults.

Generally, it seems appropriate to think of children as weak compared to adults. And even if you explain to your children beforehand that you are going to spank them (which apparently was what you referred to as communication), you still proceed to use force on them (which is what I, among others, object to). An adult using force, no matter how "mild" the intention is, can make the mistake of applying too much force. Why? Because the adult is stronger than the child.

So since you are a complete stranger, I will assume that you do not want to badly injure your children. And let's say that the probability of seriously injuring a child when spanking them or physically punishing them in general, is low.

Say all humans are equal in value - that also ought to sound good in a Christian's ears, no? Then your child has equal value to you. In my world, hurting your child in any way would be equal to any other person hurting you. You have equal value, thus you have no right to hurt people, just like noone has the right to hurt you. This, to me, is universal - it applies both to people outside and within your family.

As a parent you are supposed to teach your child to do right and not wrong, but this can be solved without force.

 

[MobBoss]

Yeah, that was him actually losing control.

Only one comment. Jesus never lost control. He did everything he ever did for a specific reason. Everything. Either you learn from it or you dont.

 

[IglooDame]

Uhm...I seem to recall you saying something about spanking a certain someone at home....

I assume you never spank while angry either correct...

Note that I said "I'd never use spanking as a childrearing tool."

And if I'm angry, I'm definitely not going to be in the mood to enjoy playtime anyway, nevermind the extremely grave connotations of engaging in vengeful violence rather than pleasurable pain.

 

[IglooDame]

Only one comment. Jesus never lost control. He did everything he ever did for a specific reason. Everything. Either you learn from it or you dont.

Do we know he didn't ever lose control? I mean, it's not like he was living in the Truman Show or something, and in any case he had a couple decades or so that his contemporary biographers are uniformly silent about.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, since you claim to be religious, perhaps appealing to Christian morals would be appropriate here:

But of course. Here are a few choice biblical scriptures as well:

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13
Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. 14 You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and rebuke give wisdom, But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

 

[Elrohir]

Punishment works if it fits the wrong doing.

But spanking does not work on children and DEFINTILY not on older children.
If anything it makes them resent the parent for most of thier childhood is i do my dad.

Were you spanked as a young child? I was, and it certainly worked on me. It wasn't like a hard beating or anything, just a smack on the bottom, I don't think anything besides a bare hand was ever used - but it still worked. Of course they stopped doing that when I was, well, maybe ten or so. At some point you have to stop.

I knew one guy, of Korean ancestory, who was "spanked" (Smacked on the hands with a ruler ) until he was 18. Simply bizarre. He was a good guy though.

Anyway, if I have children, I expect I'll use a variety of methods to punish them for wrongdoing. I imagine spanking will me one one of them. As long as it's not excessive (Bruises, using clenched fists or big pieces of wood, etc...) I think it works very well.

 

[silver 2039]

I associate spanking with a sexual activity so its probaly a bad idea....Spanking does have a sexual effect BTW. Blood rushes in that area causing sexual arousal....

 

[spankey]

I didn't take time to read every notation, nor did I vote in the poll because I think response would change as the child gets older. Punishment, regardless of offense, should have the desire to change the behavior. I have always tried to use the least amount of punishment that would still change the behavior.
If they wont stay in the time out chair, then they stand with there nose in the corner. If that doesn't work, then they have to sit in our laps until they comply. If they are willfully disobedient still, then spanking I think is okay. Once they are older (circa Kindergarten), there are many more levers that affect behavior--going to bed early, etc. I think spanking becomes more inappropriate the older they become.

If my kids are fighting, the best punishment that I have found is to force them to only play with each other for a couple of days. They learn cooperation fast.