How much is enough when disciplining a child?

[Rik Meleet]

I am absolutely shocked with the ease some members spank their children and think it's ok. It does make me understand that member's opinion on other issues better. Apparently for some creating fear is the highest goal in their lives.

Joycem: Sending children to bed as a punishment has the negative undesired side-effect of them associating "bed" with "punishment" and that in its turn may cause trouble around bed-time.

It's my opinion that raising your children requires smart thinking as children do not think as adults. Taking the easy way out (spanking, sending to bed, removing toys, whatever) for the sake of punishment will backfire if the element of understanding lacks. A child will need to avoid punishable behaviour because it doesn't want to do the punishable things - not because it doesn't want to be spanked, send to bed, reduced access to fun things etc. Spanking certainly is not the way to accomplish that.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Spanking is illegal*, and that's a jolly good thing.

*Maybe not where you live, but in civilized countries.

I think a child should never be hit. I don't think children should be exposed to such violence.

I am absolutely shocked with the ease some members spank their children and think it's ok. It does make me understand that member's opinion on other issues better. Apparently for some creating fear is the highest goal in their lives.

Joycem: Sending children to bed as a punishment has the negative undesired side-effect of them associating "bed" with "punishment" and that in its turn may cause trouble around bed-time.

It's my opinion that raising your children requires smart thinking as children do not think as adults. Taking the easy way out (spanking, sending to bed, removing toys, whatever) for the sake of punishment will backfire if the element of understanding lacks. A child will need to avoid punishable behaviour because it doesn't want to do the punishable things - not because it doesn't want to be spanked, send to bed, reduced access to fun things etc. Spanking certainly is not the way to accomplish that.

Good post

 

[Narz]

I will judge the quality of my parenting i.e. the results -my kids, against anyone elses any day of the week.

What results are those? When I have children I won't measure their worth but the grades they get or whether they make the varsity spots team but thanks for playing. What "results" are you talking about?

I can see the results each and every day - you dont even have kids. I think that fact speaks volumes.

Speaks volumes about what? Nothing but the fact that I haven't decided to have kids.

I'm a pretty peaceful person actually, in fact one of the only things that makes me feel the urge to be violent is when I see parents swatting their kids or trying to humiliate them. Usually the parent is angry or frustrated for her/his own reasons and dragging the kid somewhere he doesn't want to be (the grocery or someplace). Then when the kid cries, the parent yells at him or swats him, not to help the kid but simply because they are embarassed in public. Not to say you do this (I imagine your beatings are more "ceremonial") but just saying, I hate that type of thing!

Kids dont need subtley, in fact if a parent tries to be subtle with a kid, it is just more likely to confuse the kid.

You underestimate children.

Kids need instruction along with good, open communication.

Certainly. Like verbal communication and physical instruction. What kid is going to want to take instruction if, on failure, you hold him down against his will, drop his pants and smack him on his a$$. More than physical abuse, it's also humiliating.

They need to know exactly why they are being punished. Being subtle is only going to teach your kids to be sneaky.

I am not suprised MobBoss, that you are no fan of subtlty.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. As I have said before, kids respond to different types of motivation differently. I say this having been a parent for 18 years. I know what works and does not work - its called experience.

Experience at doing things YOUR way. One could also say Hitler had experience as a general. Doesn't mean he had the right morals, or even that in the long run he was ultimately successful (no, I'm not comparing you to Hitler, relax, it was just the quickest analogy I could come up with on short notice).

Not at all. You seemed to allege that a parent that resorts to spanking has somehow put the kid in charge. Thats total garbage and my quote was meant to illustrate the reality of the situation.

I never alleged anything of the kind. If you're going to argue with ten people at once, you're going to have to be a bit more organized.

When a kid gets spanked they know exactly that what they did will result in an immediate reaction that is unpleasant in nature. Nothing wrong with that.

Except that it's abuse.

 

[El_Machinae]

Except that it's abuse.

I do think you're misusing the term 'abuse'. To equate a spanking parent with an abusive parent is not fair.

 

[MobBoss]

sure thing, but then nobody would have the right to discuss parenting, since nobody knows all about it....not even the allknowing MobBoss

Never said I knew all about it. But at least I got teenage kids, which is a large bit more than the majority of posters in this thread.

that logic is completely false, since your kids certainly aren't a big enough control group. do you know how your kids would've turned out, had you not used spanking at all? You most certainly don't.

I would say with confidence that a vast majority of parents out there utilize spanking as a form of correction on their children. Are you allegeing that all of them are nitwits, with their kids growing up to be serial killers?

Point of fact is even several posters have said in this thread that they were spanked while being raised - and they dont see any big deal about it, nor do they have issues over it. Are they just "totally wrong" as well? Maybe they just dont get it.

Bottom line, you dont want to spank your kids, then by all means dont. But dont tell me I am inept or wrong because I do. My kids have turned out great, so thus I think I did a pretty good job in parenting them..and spanking was something I did.

 

[MobBoss]

I am absolutely shocked with the ease some members spank their children and think it's ok. It does make me understand that member's opinion on other issues better. Apparently for some creating fear is the highest goal in their lives.

Rik, its not about creating fear......its about consequence. My kids dont fear me, they love me.

It's my opinion that raising your children requires smart thinking as children do not think as adults.

I agree...thats why spanking doesnt work on teenagers.

 

[MobBoss]

What results are those? When I have children I won't measure their worth but the grades they get or whether they make the varsity spots team but thanks for playing. What "results" are you talking about?

No drugs. No disrespect. They are polite to people. The obey rules to this day. They dont sneak around behind my back. They dont drink or smoke.

I'm a pretty peaceful person actually, in fact one of the only things that makes me feel the urge to be violent is when I see parents swatting their kids or trying to humiliate them. Usually the parent is angry or frustrated for her/his own reasons and dragging the kid somewhere he doesn't want to be (the grocery or someplace). Then when the kid cries, the parent yells at him or swats him, not to help the kid but simply because they are embarassed in public. Not to say you do this (I imagine your beatings are more "ceremonial") but just saying, I hate that type of thing!

As I have stated, dont judge them too harshly until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Parenting is not by any means easy.

You underestimate children.

I dont think so. I was a child once as well. I have three teenagers. Most gets dont get/understand "subtle" until they are teens. They just look at you crosseyed if you try to be subtle with them.

Certainly. Like verbal communication and physical instruction. What kid is going to want to take instruction if, on failure, you hold him down against his will, drop his pants and smack him on his a$$. More than physical abuse, it's also humiliating.

See, you have the wrong mental image. I have never, ever held my kids down. EVER. As for humiliating, I never did it in public either, or in front of the other kids. It was solely a one on one situation. Always.

I am not suprised MobBoss, that you are no fan of subtlty.

Not where kids are concerned, no.

Except that it's abuse.

Nope. It sure does not have to be abusive in order for it to be effective.

 

[Rambuchan]

I'm with mrtn. It's illegal in this country and it should stay that way, along with slavery, child labour and women being disallowed the vote.

Children are humans that can understand reason when it's lovingly explained to them. My nephew is living testimony to that and so are all my friends. It's animals that need a beating and it's up to you if you see your own children as such.

 

[MobBoss]

I'm with mrtn. It's illegal in this country and it should stay that way, along with slavery, child labour and women being disallowed the vote.

Its illegal in Britain to spank a kid? Since when? Can you give me a link to the law?

Children are humans that can understand reason when it's lovingly explained to them. My nephew is living testimony to that and so are all my friends. It's animals that need a beating and it's up to you if you see your own children as such.

I hardly see my kids as animals.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think you need to travel to the "are humans animals?" thread. There are vast simularities and differences between people and animals. Until a child can modify behaviour based on communication, or an understanding of long-term consequences, then you need to use short-term consequences to correct behaviour and to teach self-restraint.

And you eventually have to use short-term consequences that a child cares about, at the time. Each child is different, and not a clone of you or anybody you knew when you were younger. As well, self-restraint is an aspect that can be developed as long as it's nurtured. The trick is to give your child the seed of self-restraint, and then teach them to nurture it.

Spanking after a young age will not correct behaviour, except in certain circumstances. On the other hand, it can be used as a deterrent quite effectively, as long as it's not abused.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Its illegal in Britain to spank a kid? Since when? Can you give me a link to the law?

It's not illegal...yet...but it's frowned upon and alot of people are calling for it to be illegal. It is illegal to use alot of force, the current legal status is that you can only do it 'mildly'.

This is what I could find on BBC..http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4636240.stm

 

[MobBoss]

It's not illegal...yet...but it's frowned upon and alot of people are calling for it to be illegal. It is illegal to use alot of force, the current legal status is that you can only do it 'mildly'.

This is what I could find on BBC..http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4636240.stm

So Ram was incorrect? Or was he referring to some other country?

I like how the brits call it "smacking".

I also really, really liked this comment:

If there is a total ban on smacking, I shall take no responsibility for the discipline of my children

Mark Go, Portsmouth

 

[El_Machinae]

It's not illegal...yet...but it's frowned upon and alot of people are calling for it to be illegal. It is illegal to use alot of force, the current legal status is that you can only do it 'mildly'.

This is what I could find on BBC..http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4636240.stm

Anything more than that would be abusive, I agree.

 

[ComradeDavo]

It muist be said that generally when a parent is seen smacking a child in public here most people look on in horror.

 

[Rambuchan]

Its illegal in Britain to spank a kid? Since when? Can you give me a link to the law?

Schools have not been permitted to use violence to discipline children for a while now. Do the research yourself. I've got better things to do. You'll find it soon enough.

To be clear - I think what you do to your children is disgusting, barbaric, counter productive and it's probably done no good at all. I was given the belt by my father. He explained why every time and stated the number of whacks I would get, never exceeding it. I cried crocodile tears everytime and just carried on. You're a fool to think that your children respect you for beating them. Deluded at least. Moderator Action: Warned for flaming. Attack the ideas or points, not the poster. - The Yankee
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I respect my father for the wisdom he shows and the guidance he gives. I look back at the times when he got the belt out as him losing control of the situation.

Consider this: It's certainly not what Jesus would have done.

Smacking, spanking, tapping, etc etc are all heavily debated in this country and in 2004 the Lords decided against a ban. So actually yes, I was wrong about the parents part. Sorry about that. Do I get 10 lashings or only 5? Either way you can go have your private party that I was wrong.

But note that the nation's law has been pushed to the brink in a number of cases and is seen to be at odds with The Declaration of Geneva 1924....

Actually, here's your link: http://webjcli.ncl.ac.uk/1999/issue1/smith1.html#Heading15

 

[Narz]

No drugs. No disrespect. They are polite to people. The obey rules to this day. They dont sneak around behind my back. They dont drink or smoke.

Congratulations. However lots of other kids are the same and you have no way to prove your slapping them on the rear is what put them on that path.

As I have stated, dont judge them too harshly until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Parenting is not by any means easy.

I don't care what they've been thru. If they can't handle the responsibility of parenting they shouldn't have kids. End of story. If they have problems, go do something productive. Want to fight? Pick a fight at a bar. Don't take it out on kids, that's never acceptable.

I dont think so. I was a child once as well. I have three teenagers. Most gets dont get/understand "subtle" until they are teens. They just look at you crosseyed if you try to be subtle with them.

I'm sure YOU didn't understand subtlty as a child.

See, you have the wrong mental image. I have never, ever held my kids down. EVER. As for humiliating, I never did it in public either, or in front of the other kids. It was solely a one on one situation. Always.

Well, that's good.

Nope. It sure does not have to be abusive in order for it to be effective.

Well it certainly doesn't compare to major abuses (like severe beating, constant verbal abuse or sexual abuse) I would still consider any physical punishment (short of grabbing your kids roughly to pull them out of traffic) to be somewhat abusive.

 

[El_Machinae]

Especially if she's holding him up/near by one arm and then wailing on him, while he's shrieking.

It's rare that a child should get into a situation where he should be spanked in public, I'd think. Any behaviour that warrants a spank usually disappears rather quickly.

 

[Xanikk999]

Schools have not been permitted to use violence to discipline children for a while now. Do the research yourself. I've got better things to do. You'll find it soon enough.

To be clear - I think what you do to your children is disgusting, barbaric, counter productive and it's probably done no good at all. I was given the belt by my father. He explained why every time and stated the number of whacks I would get, never exceeding it. I cried crocodile tears everytime and just carried on. You're a fool to think that your children respect you for beating them. Deluded at least.

I respect my father for the wisdom he shows and the guidance he gives. I look back at the times when he got the belt out as him losing control of the situation.

Consider this: It's certainly not what Jesus would have done.

Smacking, spanking, tapping, etc etc are all heavily debated in this country and in 2004 the Lords decided against a ban. So actually yes, I was wrong about the parents part. Sorry about that. Do I get 10 lashings or only 5? Either way you can go have your private party that I was wrong.

But note that the nation's law has been pushed to the brink in a number of cases and is seen to be at odds with The Declaration of Geneva 1924....

Actually, here's your link: http://webjcli.ncl.ac.uk/1999/issue1/smith1.html#Heading15

Schools arent allowed to use violence in the U.S either. Unless its some private school were they specifically allow that thing.

But i agree with you on your stance on spanking. I dont think its very effective.

 

[Rik Meleet]

What results are those? When I have children I won't measure their worth but the grades they get or whether they make the varsity spots team but thanks for playing. What "results" are you talking about?

No drugs. No disrespect. They are polite to people. The obey rules to this day. They dont sneak around behind my back. They dont drink or smoke.

And those are the main results you are happy with in raising children?
For me my goals of raising children is to encourage self-exploration and development, positive views, ability to think and make decisions and other characteristical developments. I want them to be good human beings and not human beings that the outside world thinks good off (although that is a supplementary goal).
"Respect" & "obedience" I associate with soldiers, not people.

 

[MobBoss]

Schools have not been permitted to use violence to discipline children for a while now. Do the research yourself. I've got better things to do. You'll find it soon enough.

Uhm...you didnt say anything about schools earlier...you just said it was illegal.

To be clear - I think what you do to your children is disgusting, barbaric, counter productive and it's probably done no good at all. I was given the belt by my father. He explained why every time and stated the number of whacks I would get, never exceeding it. I cried crocodile tears everytime and just carried on. You're a fool to think that your children respect you for beating them. Deluded at least.

I think I know my kids far better than you do. Unless of course you think you have a lot in common with pre-teen girls....which is a possibility I guess.

I respect my father for the wisdom he shows and the guidance he gives. I look back at the times when he got the belt out as him losing control of the situation.

Now wait. You said he stated beforehand the number of whacks and never exceeded it. How does that equate with "lose control"?

Consider this: It's certainly not what Jesus would have done.

Seems to me I recall Jesus giving out "whacks" to the coin sellers...

Smacking, spanking, tapping, etc etc are all heavily debated in this country and in 2004 the Lords decided against a ban. So actually yes, I was wrong about the parents part. Sorry about that. Do I get 10 lashings or only 5? Either way you can go have your private party that I was wrong.

Its not the first nor the last time this will occur I predict.

Schools arent allowed to use violence in the U.S either. Unless its some private school were they specifically allow that thing.

But i agree with you on your stance on spanking. I dont think its very effective.

I think you will find this most likely varies by state to state. Being raised in rural Arkansas, corporal punishment was meted out in public school each and every day when I was a kid with a great big wooden paddle. We had to make them for the teachers in wood shop.