How religious are you?

[Moss]

Back to my dear unicorn guardian: why I believe in him is irrelevant, what matters is if he's real. If I believed in the unicorn (or should I write Unicorn? I don't want to be blasphemous! ), I'd probably have the same reasons as the other believers: he'd give me a sense that I am not alone, that somebody cares about me, that's somebody listens when I pray, that I'll be rewarded for doing certain things. It would really help me on an emotional level, just as Jesus helps other believers - emotionally.

But again, why should it matter what my reasons are? What matters is if the Unicorn is real or not. Conversely, it doesn't matter why people believe in Christianity, Islam or other nonsense, what matters is whether these things are real. And if they were real, there should be hard evidence, otherwise it's just that - a made up story, a hoax, a myth.

How exactly do you know that the spiritual or divine does not exist? You are so sure, but why are you so sure? Hard evidence DOES NOT need to exist for something to be real. We might not have found that evidence yet. There was no evidence a thousand years ago for many things that we now know are real. Just because we don't have hard evidence of the divine currently does not mean it doesn't exist.

And your analysis of why people believe in God is so far off that it makes me wonder if you have ever even talked with a believer?

Edit: and the reason why someone believes what they do, rather than the belief itself is important specifically because we are dealing with things that are currently unable to be proven or disproven so the logical aspect of the "why" is important.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have never met anyone who believes in an Invisible Pink Unicorn, but I don't see why I would have to make fun of them for it or anything.

But do you also think you shouldn't make fun of other people's believes?

 

[Danielos]

Well, if the pink unicorn do exist I hope he has better godly manners than Jahve and doesn´t act as just another global spy with an unnatural obsession with people´s sex-life...

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

But do you also think you shouldn't make fun of other people's believes?

I do think that, and would probably think that if I stopped believing.

 

[Winner]

That's the thing, I don't find it ridiculous at all. Wrong, sure, but so?

You don't find it ridiculous because your sensitivity to ridiculousness has been altered by your faith.

For people whose mind is clear of religious irrationalities, such beliefs are ridiculous due to their implausibility, lack of evidence and the strong emotions they invoke in afflicted persons.

 

[Danielos]

I do think that, and would probably think that if I stopped believing.

But isn´t Dawkins right when he wonders why religious beliefs should be treated with such respect? We criticize political beliefs all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own beliefs, but not entitled to any unnecessary respect.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I do think that, and would probably think that if I stopped believing.

Ok. I was going somewhere with that question, but now I'm deciding against it. Can of worms best stay shut.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

You don't find it ridiculous because your sensitivity to ridiculousness has been altered by your faith.

What evidence do you have that that is the case? You would need evidence, of course. And I am sure you can find atheists who don't find religious beliefs inherently ridiculous.

But isn´t Dawkins right when he wonders why religious beliefs should be treated with such respect? We criticize political beliefs all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own beliefs, but not entitled to any unnecessary respect.

I personally don't see the need to antagonize people for anything. I won't criticize someone for having ridiculous political beliefs.

 

[Danielos]

I personally don't see the need to antagonize people for anything. I won't criticize someone for having ridiculous political beliefs.

Well, I would assume that depends on what actions these beliefs lead to? If for example, someone started a satanic death cult that required human sacrifice, I´m sure you would become a little antagonized, right?

 

[Phlegmak]

But isn´t Dawkins right when he wonders why religious beliefs should be treated with such respect? We criticize political beliefs all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own beliefs, but not entitled to any unnecessary respect.

Religion should not automatically be given respect.

And regarding intelligence and religion as was discussed earlier: religious people are not by default dumb. Something other than intelligence is needed to explain religious belief.

 

[Danielos]

Religion should not automatically be given respect.

And regarding intelligence and religion as was discussed earlier: religious people are not by default dumb. Something other than intelligence is needed to explain religious belief.

Maybe believers have a soul and the atheists don´t?

 

[Bill3000]

Religion should not automatically be given respect.

It's more of a practical matter.

 

[Lillefix]

I personally don't see the need to antagonize people for anything. I won't criticize someone for having ridiculous political beliefs.

Such a gentle spirit. I wouldn't hesitate a millisecond.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Such a gentle spirit. I wouldn't hesitate a millisecond.

Yet you don't seem to do so.

This poll probably needed the following buckets:

1) I believe in Creationism, ridicule and try to proseletize disbeleivers every chance I get, think everything presented in the Bible is literally true, and wish everybody was forced to agree with me.

2) I believe in a god, but I don't really care what others might happen to think or believe.

3) I think the question of whether a god exists is largely irrelevant.

4) I believe there is no god, but I don't really care what others might happen to think or believe.

5) I believe there is no god, ridicule and try to proseletize religious people every chance I get, think anybody who believes anything in the Bible is deluded, and wish everybody was forced to agree with me.

 

[Danielos]

This poll probably needed the following buckets:

1) I believe in Creationism, ridicule and try to proseletize disbeleivers every chance I get, think everything presented in the Bible is literally true, and wish everybody was forced to agree with me.

2) I believe in a god, but I don't really care what others might happen to think or believe.

3) I think the question of whether a god exists is largely irrelevant.

4) I believe there is no god, but I don't really care what others might happen to think or believe.

5) I believe there is no god, ridicule and try to proseletize religious people every chance I get, think anybody who believes anything in the Bible is deluded, and wish everybody was forced to agree with me.

But this poll is not only about Christianity, but any religion!

 

[Formaldehyde]

You are right. There are other religious fanatics besides Christians. I'll fix.

1) I believe that only my religion can possibly know the truth, ridicule and try to proseletize disbeleivers every chance I get, think everything presented in the holy scriptures of my religion is literally true, and wish everybody was forced to agree with me.

2) I believe in a god, but I don't really care what others might happen to think or believe.

3) I think the question of whether a god exists is largely irrelevant.

4) I believe there is no god, but I don't really care what others might happen to think or believe.

5) I believe there is no god, ridicule and try to proseletize religious people every chance I get, think anybody who believes anything in the Bible is deluded, and wish everybody was forced to agree with me.

 

[Naphthous]

You show your ignorance then.

Roman catholic doctrine is based on the fact (as Plotinus has said many times) that belief in a God is rational. Saint Thomas Aquinas also held that belief.

And even if you are right that "most" Christians don't see their belief as logical, that doesn't preclude that a belief in God cannot be logical.

Yes, but any actual application of reason does.

If you think it's rational, then tell me what evidence leads to such a belief.

My ignorance? I'm ignorant because I don't believe something is logical just because some long-dead theologians believed it to be? That's not ignorance, it's simply a refusal to believe something just because two other people in history believed it. You idiot.

 

[Bill3000]

Still doesn't work though if you were comparing opinions towards religion.

 

[warpus]

How exactly do you know that the spiritual or divine does not exist? You are so sure, but why are you so sure? Hard evidence DOES NOT need to exist for something to be real. We might not have found that evidence yet. There was no evidence a thousand years ago for many things that we now know are real. Just because we don't have hard evidence of the divine currently does not mean it doesn't exist.

Not to defend Winner's strange views or anything, but the fact remain that there is no evidence at all, nor has there ever been. There is absolutely nothing substantial that might lead one to believe that the God of the Bible exists, other than the Bible itself.

I think it's important to make a distinction between specific spiritual beliefs (ie. Christianity, Islam, etc.) and spiritualy/"the divine" in general.

While I'm a strong atheist when it comes to particular religions (ie. I believe that the Mormon God does not exist, and will continue to drink tea), I am weak atheist/agnostic when it comes to spiritual "forces" in general (ie. I don't believe that they exist, am not convinced that they don't, and simply won't really care unless there's evidence to make me a 'believer', or a discussion where I can contribute my thoughts to)

Just some random thoughts.

I personally don't see the need to antagonize people for anything. I won't criticize someone for having ridiculous political beliefs.

Isn't there a difference between antagonization, a lack of respect, and criticism, though?

 

[Winner]

How exactly do you know that the spiritual or divine does not exist? You are so sure, but why are you so sure?

For the same reason you're so sure that the invisible pink Unicorn doesn't exist.

Hard evidence DOES NOT need to exist for something to be real. We might not have found that evidence yet.

A statement of the week Yes, after thousands of years of looking, we still haven't found the evidence - damn Oh, it also sucks that we've found plenty of evidence which disproved about 90% of religious dogma. It looks like that the longer a religion exists, the less evidence there is to support it - how's that possible?

In any case, my faith in the Unicorn is relatively new, so you have to be patient - I am sure we'll find evidence in the future

There was no evidence a thousand years ago for many things that we now know are real.

This is wrong on so many levels - in the past, before modern science was created, people turned to supernatural powers to explain natural phenomenons - why planets move, what causes solar eclipse, what causes diseases, why two dark-haired people can have a blond child etc. etc. etc.

Today, we have science - if somebody comes up with a theory which is logically coherent (no present-day religion is logically coherent), he also needs to come up with evidence supporting it in order for the theory to be accepted by other scientists.

Religions simply appear and say: this, this and this is true. Prove us wrong. How immensely pathetic is that?

Just because we don't have hard evidence of the divine currently does not mean it doesn't exist.

Occam's razor, my friend. If there's no evidence and if many other things suggest that religion is a VERY implausible concept, then it's a logical conclusion to refuse it.

And your analysis of why people believe in God is so far off that it makes me wonder if you have ever even talked with a believer?

Plenty of them - half of my family is religious and my (half-)sister is a nun - surprised?

Edit: and the reason why someone believes what they do, rather than the belief itself is important specifically because we are dealing with things that are currently unable to be proven or disproven so the logical aspect of the "why" is important.

No. Religious people constantly try to relativize this matter - "you can't prove us wrong, ergo our view is just as good as yours". Absolutely not my deluded friends, you believe in a veeeery implausible thing, you have offered no evidence and just because there is no way how to 100% disprove your "theory" doesn't mean it is comparable with modern science and its rational explanations of the Universe. In other words, you believe in a fringe theory and given that your claims are so contradictory to all rational explanations, you're most likely just crazy