How should the West contain Russia?

[Winner]

For Europe:
1. Remove all fanatics (such as you, Winner) from European governments.
2. Tell USA/NATO administration to get lost. Stop wiping of US ass.
3. Build self-dependant power after all. Stop all this ideological brain f*****g.
4. Favour Russia to join WTO, so it could take off the oil needle.
5. Equip all russophobe fanatics with trotyl and M16 and land them about Moscow [joke].

Very funny, mr. Witty. I am sure that is what the Russians would like - divide and conquer. Distance Europe and America, then crush the EU from the inside and then slowly re-estabilish the Eastern Bloc, perhaps extend it a little, Germany and Austria would be such a nice additions.

Not gonna happen, so pack your wet dreams and go elsewhere.

 

[scy12]

Just a while ago it criticized the West for doing similar thing in Kosovo, now it is OK to do the same thing.

It said "Since you did it we will do it as well". Really why don't you use facts instead of sheer stupid Propaganda if you want to speak against Russian foreign policy which one may find many negative things to talk about.

 

[Winner]

The West should attempt to cooperate with Russia and solve all problems under the table by not making threatening Political statements. Especially Greece. Thankfully our Foreigin minister atleast says that she knows what she is doing. She supported Nato to follow that strategy at the Nato conference , and in truth it appears the ones who shared her opinion where more than those who disagreed. Europe is not US . We have different interests. It is not in our interest to continue this hot headed atmosphere. It may be In the interests of the Russians. And against the interest of Eastern European countries. But it seems there Brain isn't fuctioning much. If Russia must be contained it is better to contain it in different ways , than the ones we currently seen.

For example. Say Ukraine wants to take of Krimea. When is the best time to do that. Now on the spotlight while Russia would have many reasons to react (and one may think that they want them to react ). Or in a different time ?

You think too much with emotion winner.

Emotion? I am being emotional?

How, where, when? What I am saying here is based on hard facts. I am talking about real world international politics. If I was being emotional, I'd make drama queen performances like Gelion or some other people here.

It seems that what most of the Western Europeans don't understand is, that being friends with Russia comes at a price, and it's sure not them who's going to pay it. It's countries like Georgia who pay that price.

You have two options:

a) ignore the Russian aggressive actions and appease them. Sacrifice few small Eastern European countries and hope that the Russian regime will feel safe (to oppress its own people) and satisfied and won't ask for more. Besides the fact that it is totally immoral, undemocratic and completely incompatible with EUs ideals, it would most probably not work. Historically, this strategy has always failed.

b) stand up to the Russian regime. Let it know that if it continues to defy the West, it will pay the price. Russia can't afford another "cold miniwar", not economically, not politically, no militarily. Then wait and hope the Russian leaders come to their senses. This strategy has worked in the past, though it offers no easy victories.

That's it.

 

[scy12]

We don't have two only choices , Winner. And especially not them. You are talking full nonsense.

 

[Winner]

It said "Since you did it we will do it as well". Really why don't you use facts instead of sheer stupid Propaganda if you want to speak against Russian foreign policy which one may find many negative things to talk about.

Read what I write and stop babbling about emotions, propaganda etc. I am just saying, that Russians have done the same thing they had previously criticized and denounced.

There is only one word for that: hypocrisy.

 

[Gelion]

^^ You are now officially a drama queen

 

[Winner]

We don't have two only choices , Winner. And especially not them. You are talking full nonsense.

Yeah, easy to say, isn't it? I am done with you, you have no arguments, you just keep saying "no, you're wrong, I don't agree, that's not right, blablablah".

Let me know when you find your common sense again.

 

[scy12]

There is only one word for that: hypocrisy.

My emotional man (Who cares not about 60 dead children) , i should not do that but here it is. Russia said it would not recognize Kosovo because of prinsiples. Some western countries said that they would recognize Kosovo because the people there heald referendums , created autonomous goverment , the exact things that happened in south Osetia.

Later. Some Western countries says South Osetia should not be independed and they talk that war was good enough way to do that.
Russia then says i change my prinsiples to the ones you had at Kosovo. Both sides are hypocrites or neither is. The things that happened where first "Some Western countries says South Osetia should not be independed and they talk that war was good enough way to do that." and then "Russia then says i change my prinsiples to the ones you had at Kosovo."

Really stop your low quality Propaganda , speak with me with facts and if your objective is to find things to say that are negative for Russian policy you can. Without using that ridiculous propaganda of yours.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Very funny, mr. Witty. I am sure that is what the Russians would like - divide and conquer. Distance Europe and America, then crush the EU from the inside and then slowly re-estabilish the Eastern Bloc, perhaps extend it a little, Germany and Austria would be such a nice additions.

Actually this is what the West makes. For all its history. Divides then conquers... And nowadays in the face of NATO administration. Divided USSR and playing off one against another. Even revolution in Russian Empire was connected with the West.

Not gonna happen, so pack your wet dreams and go elsewhere.

In my wet dreams I see lovely girls and delicious food. I'm not a fanatic to watch politics while asleep.

 

[scy12]

Actually this is what the West makes. For all its history. Divides then conquers... And nowadays in the face of NATO administration. Divided USSR and playing off one against another. Even revolution in Russian Empire was connected with the West.

This is what everyone makes. As for West. There is no such thing as a "West" bloc where every different country has the same interests. That is again low/bad propaganda. I hate it when i see the word West used like that .

 

[Gelion]

In my wet dreams I see lovely girls and delicious food. I'm not a fanatic to watch politics while asleep.

Спасибо повеселило/"thanks, entertained me"

 

[Winner]

Actually this is what the West makes. For all its history. Divides then conquers... And nowadays in the face of NATO administration. Divided USSR and playing off one against another. Even revolution in Russian Empire was connected with the West.

Yeah, right. The West didn't care about Russia at all until the Russians decided that they must keep expanding to shake off the shock of the Mongol invasion.

And this "we're the victims" mentality is incredibly pathetic. The West didn't force Russia to adopt communism. It really didn't. USSR dissolved because the subjugated nations didn't want to suffer the Russian oppression any longer. They hardly needed any Western encouragement. The same for the Eastern Bloc countries. I know that the Russians tend to believe we were fooled by the evil Americans to become part of the West, but in reality that's what we wanted. BTW, you were moderately popular in Czechoslovakia until 1968, then you totally wasted your reputation here for the next 100 years. It's the same story in other countries. You attacked them, oppressed them and now you wonder why they don't like Russia. Oh, you can guess why

And the more you deny the reality and the more aggressive your country is, the more resentment is there going to be. Start using your collective brains, perhaps you'll realize that your government is leading you to isolation, poverty and misery. Just like the previous red one.

 

[Joker85]

The first step is a unified front from the West. Eastern European nations must not allow France, Germany, and Italy to sell them out for Russian gas. United Eastern Europe holds a good deal of sway in the EU, and with the UK on their side they can stand up against Western European appeasement tendencies. You hear all the time from the Europhiles about how the EU is not really just France/Germany +vassals and that there really is one "European" interest. Yet now, yet again, it seems that whatever those two nations want they get, regardless of how much it screws over the rest of Europe.

 

[hossam]

winner, why should the west( particullarly The USA) go through all the trouble of stopping russia from taking over some crappy eastern european countries?

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

This is what everyone makes. As for West. There is no such thing as a "West" bloc where every different country has the same interests. That is again low/bad propaganda. I hate it when i see the word West used like that .

I'm just trying to oppose. I don't like when they use Russia in the same context too.

The West is most unificated civilization in the world both in actions and in culture. Nowadays only Muslims can be equated. This is not bad, not good, this is out of moral debate.

If a person tries to reproach one culture in something bad he should be sure that his own culture could not be reproached in same things or at least he should not turn a blind eye to similar facts.

 

[Snorrius]

The question here is simple:
how to contain the Russian threat? What should Europe and the West as a whole do?

You claim that Russia is a some kind of threat, probably you fear that your country will be annexed by Russia. It is very doubtful, because we do not need Czechia, but even if miracle has happened, and your country became a part of Russian Commonwealth, why do you so opposed to this? I understand that you did not like ineffective planned economy and Iron Curtain which made travelling and business investments difficult, but now Russia is modern democratic capitalist society, though with strong social traditions, so what is bad about being a part of Russian Commonwealth?

 

[Winner]

winner, why should the west( particullarly The USA) go through all the trouble of stopping russia from taking over some crappy eastern european countries?

Because then Russia will come to get the rest.

Seriously, I explained it in the OP:

Russian government wants control. Soon most of Western, Southern, Central and Eastern Europe will be dependent on oil/gas supplies from Russia, which will make it vulnerable and open to extortion and intimidation. That's a good reason in its own right.

As for the US, it is certainly not in American interest to have Europe under Russian influence. Such Europe would not be an useful ally, which is why the US helped it during the Cold War.

The West has proclaimed that democracy and freedom are its core values. Protection of these values must be a top priority, even when other interests dictate otherwise. Sure, the West could use Russian cooperation, but I believe the price it would have to pay for it is too high.

 

[Princeps]

1. Remove all fanatics (such as you, Winner) from European governments.

I support this proposition -- excuse the term -- fanatically. If you Russians restrain and remove your loose-cannons, we Europeans will in exchange take out the trash.

 

[Winner]

You claim that Russia is a some kind of threat, probably you fear that your country will be annexed by Russia. It is very doubtful, because we do not need Czechia, but even if miracle has happened, and your country become a part of Russian Commonwealth, why do you so opposed to this? I understand that you did not like ineffective planned economy and Iron Curtain which make travelling and business investments difficult, but now Russia is modern democratic capitalist society, though with strong social traditions, so what is bad about being a part of Russian Commonwealth?

I hope you're not being serious.

As for the first sentence, read the OP. This is not about my country and I am really not afraid that Russia is gonna annex it. Read the OP (again).

 

[Gelion]

^^Agreed! Where do we start?