How would you change history?

[Ice_Tyrant]

I would've done... something, to screw up Stalin's PR. It really just makes me mad that Nobody ever shuts up about how evil Hitler was, but I don't often hear 'bout Stalin. Or it seems like if you go up to a common person, you'll get "Hitler was the most evil monster to ever set foot on earth!" and with Stalin you'd just get "Yeah, he's a butthole." Not like I'm trying to soften Hitler or anything, but the legacy gap between the two seems disgusting to me. Woulda been better to just kill Stalin right after WWII though I guess, though I'd have to get, like, right in front of him as soon as I time traveled to actaully get him. Time Travel all you want, you still can't just walk up to a guy and shoot him just 'cause you're from the future.

 

[Plotinus]

Yes, I don't think I've ever seen any thread here about how bad Stalin was, or any debate about who was worse out of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc...

 

[Maxxie]

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. were all too influential historically to risk killing early, and I would question even killing Mao rather than giving him the information to make better choices. Unintended consequences and all of that. Somehow stopping the Khmer Rouge on the other hand seems isolated enough to be a better choice to improve history.

 

[aronnax]

I would have Alexander to go fight a Chinese Kingdom so we can put an end to the squabbling of Alexander Vs China.

Seriously...

 

[BananaLee]

Amen, brother. Amen

 

[Masada]

.... we need more Zheng He to prove Gavin Menzies wrong!

 

[Evie]

Nobunaga, what about British policies such as the Quebec Act? The commoners didn't want extra fertile land?

The average commoner didn't really have a use for extra fertile land - the average commoner had a sizeable farm, and with plenty of lands left to open north of Montreal, or between the Richelieu river and the Appalachian mountains (the Eastern Townships, largely opened in our reality by Loyalists), they hardly needed lands far off by lake Ontario.

They weren't politicized enough for "You will be able to settle far-off land" to influence THEM much (as opposed to the landlords, ranking churchmen, merchants and other elites, who of course saw things quite another way). "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" on the other hand...yeah. They did get what *those* words meant.

 

[innonimatu]

I'd go back in time to Quebec on December 31, 1775, with several modern explosive/demolition charges, and use carefully timed demolition/explosion to blow up the defenses right under Carleton's legs, allowing Montgomery and Arnold to take the city.

Then help set up a Quebec convention, and talks the Quebec common population (as opposed to the elites, which were pro-British, and tried to influence the population in that direction) into turning their sympathies toward the revolution (which were very real) into openly joining as the fourteenth colony.

I think that would backfire... it was one think for the British to give up half of their american lands. Quite another to give up the whole of it, and where would all the loyalists go?

Hmm... a world where the american colonies lost its independence war in the 1780s... seems interesting. How would ithose become independent later, and what would happen to the west?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I keep seeing suggestions that seem to suggest that one mere person can direct the actions and priorities of entire empires and sovereign states.

 

[Evie]

I think that would backfire... it was one think for the British to give up half of their american lands. Quite another to give up the whole of it, and where would all the loyalists go?

Nova Scotia/New Brunswick, or back to Britain, presumably.

As far as what was one thing or not to Britain...by the time of Yorktown, what Britain wanted stopped mattering so much, otherwise they would have kept a great deal of "Indian" territory, and only granted freedom to the colonies. In the main event, Britain kept the parts that didn't rebel, and not much else.

 

[BananaLee]

I keep seeing suggestions that seem to suggest that one mere person can direct the actions and priorities of entire empires and sovereign states.

But of course!
It is a well-established fact that White Anglo-Saxon Protestant men are the only people in the world who matter. Them and Zheng He obviously.

 

[Masada]

It is a well-established fact that White Anglo-Saxon Protestant men are the only people in the world who matter. Them and Zheng He obviously.

Zheng He is the GREAT MAN and Gavin Menzies is HIS Prophet!

 

[vogtmurr]

I keep seeing suggestions that seem to suggest that one mere person can direct the actions and priorities of entire empires and sovereign states.

You are absolutely right; there was a serious attempt to identify actions an individual could take that would influence history. The more subtle the connection the greater the challenge, but the easier to get away with. Assassinations are not always easy but that's an obvious one; or surprising the would be assassin about to commit the act. Maybe derailing a train on it's way to Moscova. Playing the stock market with an assured chance of wealth and then using it in some other way to manipulate the market. A careless whisper, or a seduction. Use your imagination - that's what it's all about.

 

[Evie]

Hey, all I did was bring a few dozen modern explosive charges back to 1775. The rest is all helping people do what they wanted to do so it actually works this time around

 

[vogtmurr]

Hey, all I did was bring a few dozen modern explosive charges back to 1775. The rest is all helping people do what they wanted to do so it actually works this time around

Well yours is actually tight enough - just requires a little collaboration. Let's call it a more challenging role:

I use some ancient folklore herbalist remedy to cure the Grand Inquisitor's gout, and then reveal that it was taught to me by an accused witch, so preventing an auto-de-fe. Then expand with a few simple scientific and medical advances, ultimately bringing me to the attention of Isabella, whom I seduce, gradually winning her over at the expense of the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Use your imagination - that's what it's all about.

That's the point I'm making. It's easy to say that causing a nation to enact a certain policy will change history. Saying how you would bring it about as an individual outsider with certain tools and techniques and justifying that makes for a better discussion. Anyway, I think bringing back technologies to the past is easily doable by one time traveler.

 

[Brighteye]

I would not change anything older than I am. I want to be born.

I would return to my childhood and meet my mother and father separately (which wouldn't be hard) and discuss some very important events that might or might not happen in the family. I might accidently leave some back issues of The FT lying around too, for my mother's benefit.

 

[timerover51]

Yes, I don't think I've ever seen any thread here about how bad Stalin was, or any debate about who was worse out of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc...

I always view it as a toss up as to which one was worse, Hitler or Stalin. Unfortunately, we had to side with Stalin, as Winston Churchill remarked: "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." Sometimes in war, it is hard to choose your allies.

However, given the research that I have done in the US National Archives about Japanese activities in China during WW2, I keep thinking that Hirohito got off very lightly, not so much for what he approved as for what he ignored or avoided hearing about.

As for changing history, I probably would like to shoot John Wilkes Booth on April 13, 1865.

 

[Camikaze]

However, given the research that I have done in the US National Archives about Japanese activities in China during WW2, I keep thinking that Hirohito got off very lightly, not so much for what he approved as for what he ignored or avoided hearing about.

It's a bit hard to convict someone for what they didn't know, particularly when that which they apparently 'should have known' is criminal. Also, I was under the impression that whilst he potentially had the power to prevent a lot of the War in the Pacific, he would have put himself in a fairly precarious position to do so, given the power of the military, and their ideology. So, I would've thought it's a bit unfair to blame Hirohito for the war, or the crimes committed in it, seeing as it wasn't his idea, virtually wasn't his decision, and as far as I know, he didn't have any complicity in war crimes.

 

[Squonk]

- I wouldn't create Israel
- I would stop Lenin rom coming to Russia
- I would make Hitler get to that art academy he wanted so much in Vienna
- I would stop the West from helping Russia in the Crimean War
- I would make UK help Greece against
- I would stop polish XIX century uprisings
- I would stop all that polish enlightement reforms, which Russia wanted to stop and which led to the partages, and make Poland wait until Napoleon conquers it and establishes modern gouverment (but, on the other hand, if there was no turmoil in Poland, Russia and Prussia would have much more free hands in France and there might have been no Napoleon... hm)
- I'd make Henry Valois not escape from Poland, or prince Condi win the civil war in Poland. Or Sweden win the II Northern War.
- I'd make Wladyslaw Jagiello marry Ofka of Bohemia instead of Zofia Holszanska or whatever was her name --> Poland would get Silesia, and the marcgrave of Brandenburg would become the next king of Poland (he was already being brought up at polish court as the future king)
- I'd make queen/king Jadwiga (Hedugis) marry the Habsburg instead of Jagiello. Or, alternatively, the prince of Masovia
- I'd make Henryk Pobozny win the battle of Legnica against Mongols
- I'd make Konrad Mazowiecki invite Templars or Hospitaliers to Prussia instead of Teutonic Knights
- I'd make Wladyslaw Wygnaniec defeat his brothers and unite Poland
- I'd make IV crusade to go towards Egypt. And conquer it.
- I'd make king Alaric of Jerusalem conquer Egypt. Or, I'd make Saladin convert to fatimid isma'ili shia islam.
- I would make Roman Diogenes accept peace offered by Alp Arslan before Mantzikert battle
- perhaps I would make Muhammad an orthodox christian instead of self-claimed prophet. Or make muslims conquer Persia only... Damn, I'd miss islamic culture, but, on the other hand, I miss Byzantium...
- I'd make Carthago win the first war against Rome. That could be fun.
- perhaps I'd make Persians conquer these goddamn Greeks, just to see what'd happen

Of course, one change would make another pointless.