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I pledge to not buy Civ 6 until it is released

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by ash88, Jul 18, 2016.

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  1. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Chieftain

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    Actually many healthy companies have debts, so, yes it makes sense, and it does not matter whether they are healty or not. Getting more money for the devs now actually helps them develop their products.

    The whole argument agaisnt preodres is that on day 1, other people will have bought the game, and reviewed it for good or bad. So, you may not buy the game on day 1 because other people warn you that it's the worst game ever made.
    That logic is a bit flawed, though, since it requires people to buy the game on day 1 in order to get reviews. The argument could hold if games were never patched, but since they are, I think the argumetn agaisnt preordering is very lacking. It doesn't take into account the fact that early money helps the company develop the product in the first place, and then goes on saying that preorders will hurt quality but that this cannot be measured but, logically, it's obvious that it hurts quality. So imo it's about faith and not logic.
     
  2. True_Candyman

    True_Candyman Chieftain

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    My particular furor is that i pre-ordered Beyond Earth, yet it was discounted on release day no less to a price below what i paid for my pre-order. And when i complained instead of having the decency to price match they gave me a copy of Civ IV, because apparently that's what i wanted.

    Small gripe in the grand scheme of things, but it's the slap in the face to loyal customers who've shown faith in the product that i really disliked about it. Probably a lot more to do with steam than firaxis, but you gotta think at least 2K is involved in decisions like pricing and discounts come release day.
     
  3. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    Most games from major publishers are released to reviewers early, and so there are normally reviews available before day 1.
     
  4. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

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    I do not give a crap about people and their game related protests.
    The squeaky wheel gets the grease mentality clogs up the boards with identical topics all trying to raise a rebel army whose presence is never felt by the people they want to engage.
    I didn't pre-order XCOM 2 because I had other things I was doing and I wanted to do two more runs of XCOM first. Maybe when Civ 6 comes around I'll be too busy with XCOM 2 to get it right away. Or maybe I will get it right away, I don't know.
    Rest assured if I don't buy it promptly it will not be because I'm taking a stand that will never be noticed by anyone and serves only to make myself feel good.
     
  5. Fairfax

    Fairfax Chieftain

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    I was going to buy right after release if it didn't suck and wasn't broken, but the pre-order DLC is BS. I'll just wait for patches and a discount at least a few months later.
     
  6. eMeM

    eMeM Chieftain

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    More like "Oh, you don't want to preorder? BAM, here you go, an important chunk of the game cut out to be a pre-order bonus!"

    Now you have a proof that a) preorder culture is cancer b) Firaxis aren't the good guys.
     
  7. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    And here I am now, waiting to see if somebody is going to make the argument that they probably could not have financed making the Aztecs were it not for the money they made from people pre-ordering the game.

    Those well-meaning devs, even this close to bankruptcy they still believe in giving back to the good people who gave them money months before getting the product. 8)
     
  8. rastak

    rastak Chieftain

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    LOL, you're funny. I'm sure you posted the exact same thing about Babylon for Civ V.

    I'd hardly call a 19th Civ "an important chunk of the game".
     
  9. eMeM

    eMeM Chieftain

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    As the string of ASCII characters below my usernane suggests, I couldn't post anything when Civ 5 preorders were announced. Of course I agree, Civ V preorder bonuses were bad, like every preorder bonus in the history of mankind.

    Aztecs are an important part of the game, every civilization is, especially in Civ VI where each of them is much more distinct that in previous games, and especially one that was in the basic roster of every game so far.
     
  10. Nick31

    Nick31 Chieftain

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    You win, Shirk. Those Aztecs will probably have me pre-ordering. Unless I can buy the Deluxe on the dy of and still get the Aztecs.
     
  11. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Chieftain

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    Yes, but they may or may not be trusted. If only because they don't have the latest version of the game which might include a bug fix on day -1.
     
  12. m15a

    m15a Chieftain

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    But bug fixes usually make the game better, so if the game is good enough to justify purchase despite the presence of bugs, then waiting until launch won't affect your decision.

    As for other reasons not to trust reviews, you have to use your own judgment on whose opinion to trust either way.
     
  13. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Chieftain

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    But the point is that the reviewed game may not be the actual game, there are balance changes that can ruin a game, and in case of games like civ, I don't expect anyone putting less than 50 or 100h into the game to be able to write a review thatI'd trust, and the pro's just don't do that.
    So I need someone I trust to have actually shelled money before I can trust a review. If everyone behaved like that,waiting for someone to have bought the game and expressed an opinion about it, then noone would buy it at all.

    As for providing extra content earlier, it's an incentive to get money earlier. It makes sense for the devs to do that, because money know > money later. It doesn't mean the product will be worse for it, if only because if it's crap they'll sell less extensions/DLCs.
     
  14. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I pledge not to buy the game until after it is released. I pre-ordered Civ4 and later the Bts exapnsion, and then Civ5. Civ5 was a letdown for many reasons including 1UPT and its consequences (including AI capacity), poor UI and poor performance. At the time it appeared to be too much a change in the direction in the franchise that didn't gel with me. It may have been largely due to Jon Shafer though.

    And, 2K Games employ their now standard tactic of price-gouging based on region and so I have no desire to support them. I can see myself waiting for a complete version for $5 in a Humble Bundle or similar.
     
  15. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    There is no way this isn't hyperbole, right? :D

    PS: you get it for free after 90 days. Just buy the game after those 90 days. Or whenever really, because you'll get this one race - out of around, what? 18? 20? - regardless.

    Not pre-ordering is a good and valid tactic, but waiting for a $5 Humble Bundle only contributes to the price-gouging you're complaining about.

    It's about striking a healthy balance.
     
  16. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Conquistador

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    This thread seems to be going in circles, and believe me, we aren't going to reach an agreement anytime soon.

    This is, of course, to be expected. Every one of us will make the best decision for himself, and trying to convice others of your reasoning makes little sense in this case.

    Why is that? Well, each and everyone of us values the product Civilization VI differently, we have different oportunity costs and different amounts of disposable income.

    Some variables that affect the price, and the possibility of pre-ordering, for everyone of us differently:

    -Planned/Estimated playtime: 20h or less for some (less value)... 2000h for others (more value)
    -Gaming habits: Plays mutiple games (high opportunity cost, less value).... plays only Civ (low opportunity cost, more value).
    -Disposable income: Low/inexistant (very relevant purchase)... Bill Gates (irrelevant purchase).
    -Importance of playing the game on day one: High (pre-order has more value)... None (less value).
    -Importance of reviews in making purchase decisions: High (pre-order has less value)... None (more value).
    -Willingness to buy all extra content: High (pre-order and DLC have more value)... Low (less value)
    -Etc.

    The result of all this process is that everyone of us has a different "price". 1000€ for some, 0,99€ for others.
    Those that pre-order, such as myself, normally value the game much higher than those that don't - for whatever the reason. Probably even higher than the retail price.

    Picture someone with more than enough disposable income, which isn't influenced by metacritic or review scores, plans to play for more than +300h, wishes to play from day one and is more than willing to buy all extra content for the game.
    How could such a person NOT pre-order if there is the slightest (pre-download, early access, you name it) incentive?
     
  17. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    I understand the reason behind this thread. Nevertheless it has to be accepted that some people are sure they want the game and are willing to pay for it in advance to get benefits. Even if this benefit is just getting the game asap.
    The Aztec Civ incentive is just an incentive and Firaxis has every right to use their self-created content at their will - That doesn't make them evil. :rolleyes:

    Buying digital deluxe putting more money on the table is another of these incentive they are perfectly entitled to use to try to get more money out of the players. It is their property and they are selling. You are allowed to not buy it. It is your right to refrain from buying the game so do it and wait. :thumbsup: Making it a crusade won't work, but I encourage you to do it anyway! Believe me; I tried :p :

    I fought steam/valve-exclusivity when ciV came out, didn't buy the game and got it gifted years later in a complete edition with BNW (steam h8er here, still not loving it and try to leave it alone as much as possible, but some games are available only there and I want them, so I have to decide what is more important to me - PlusUltra hit the nail on the head)

    This time I preordered a few weeks ago at a keyseller with a good deal, even the deluxe edition... I am certain this is my kind of civ. If it's not I only have to blame myself, not Firaxis...
     
  18. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Chieftain

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    OK. Found another piece of preorder figures data.
    Aliens: Colonial Marines.
    Apparently this game was a piece of ***, but it sold 1.31 million copies in part thanks to preorders.

    However, the class action lawsuit related to it shows that preorders were not enough to actually earn the devs any money (look for Pitchford's talks or this summary here: https://www.vg247.com/2014/08/01/aliens-colonial-marines-no-royalties-says-gearbox/). I unfortunately couldn't find out how many sales were preorders.

    Now, Gearbox did get a shoddy product out the door. They also used the money on other projects (Borderlands), thereby lying/mishandling the paiments done by Sega. In the end, they respected their contract but not the spirit, delivered a poor game, and got no bucks for it in the end. Sega screwed by not cancelling the project when they found out they'd been cheated by Gearbox. People who preordered were screwed by the bad game, but the company didn't make any benefit off it, and one of the codevelopers went bankrupt.
    Sega nevertheless pushed out 4 DLCs over 5 months after release, so the game did get some support after release, and the DLCs seem to be good, contrary to the released game.

    What to learn from this?
    1/ Definitely don't preorder from companies you don' trust. I would say that the developper is more important than the publisher here. For instance I trust Firaxis more than 2K, and Sega more than Gearbox (which is saying a lot about the latter).
    2/ The developper didn't get any financial benefit from preorders. Nor did they lose money. They were paid on milestones, and the preorders didn't amount to enough sales to bring them any royalty. So in this case, claiming that preorders help getting shoddy games is wrong as far as the developper is concerned.
    3/ I lack data about why Sega didn't cancel the game in 2008 when they should have (Gearbox cheating on them). Did they have enough preorders 5 years before release that cancelling would have been a net loss? I doubt it. Did they get enough preorders to make up for the bad press later? Maybe. I think they hoped they would still get something for their money and the franchise could sell. Did they hope the preorders would bring enough money by themselves to make up for 5 years of development? Maybe, but I find it hard to believe as the net result was that the game didn't make enough money to pay royalties to the develeopper, so it was a failure for the publisher too. They probably cut some of their losses with preorders.
    4/ Lawsuits are good, as they allow to get some data.

    Now, based from this, should we never preorder anything?
    I still think no. If you trust the developper, I see no reason to refuse giving them money early. That's mostly kickstarters/indies. I guess the relationship between Paradox and Obsidian might be that way, but it's impossible to know for sure.
    For big developpers, it's likely Firaxis gets contracted and so has a budget which is independant of preorders. In this case, preorders will get the developper nothing, so it's not supportingthem.
    Big developpers like CDprojekt may be quite different (I mean, they're working with GoG, not Steam or major publishers).
    So what is the risk/reward?
    - developper cannot be trusted: High. Don't preorder.
    - developper can be trusted but has a big publisher behind them: Preorder won't help them. Don't.
    - same case but preorder actually brings something (reduced price, preload, early access to Aztec DLC): if you're in a hurry, you may, but you're taking a bit of a risk
    - same case but preorder brings something exclusive (DLC you won't ever be able toget otherwise): your call. I think it's an evil practise unless the thingy is just cosmetic.
    - developper can be trusted and is indie/will get funds for backing, like kickstarter: you're taking a risk, just know that you're taking a risk. If not for kickstarters, I wouldn't have played Pillars of Eternity, so it's worth taking risks.

    If enough people preorder a game, does someone else risk getting a worse game because of it?
    I think no. They just risk getting no game at all if the game is cancelled.
     
  19. rastak

    rastak Chieftain

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    My decision tree is easier.

    Do I feel like pre-ordering?: Yes, then do it
    No, then don't

    It's really simple for me but I do thank everyone trying to warn me of the evils and dangers. I pre-ordered Total War: Warhammer and have played a grand total of 20 minutes. :crazyeye:
     
  20. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    That's actually pretty brilliant. You managed to create a consistent inconsistency!
     
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