Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[OwieB2003]

But that means that one of the primarily Good religions is not so good at all...

The Order is a good religion? I could swear it said "adopting this religion will increase your Ethical Alignment...", not "Alignment". And Gaius Octavius is hardly what I'd call "good". Come to think of it, neither are Angaad nor Tethira.

 

[Torugu]

I'm fairly sure that in vanilla FFH Order changes your alignment to Good. And, since FFH/Keal is still the first authority concerning Rife lore, this makes Order a "Good" religion (lorewise).


I have always felt that the term "Good" in FFh (and to a lesser extent in Rife) doesn't actually mean that a leader or a religion is "good" but rather that they are likely to stand on the side of the "Good" gods in their war against Agares etc.

Bannor are one example for that but it becomes even more obvious if you take the time to actually think about the Alignment of the Grigori and especially Cassiel.
Cassiel is true neutral, the most neutral of all FFH leaders in fact, yet he has an almost Gandhi-like character (except that he realizes that peaceful resistance won't get you very far in Erebus). and that isn't "good" then I don't know either.

 

[Wodan]

Is there any way to "teach" the AI that they don't have to attack fireballs and other summons that will die at start of owner's next turn?

 

[Meldon]

I'm fairly sure that in vanilla FFH Order changes your alignment to Good. And, since FFH/Keal is still the first authority concerning Rife lore, this makes Order a "Good" religion (lorewise).

It's been a while since I've played vanilla FFH, but isn't that because there isn't a chaotic/lawful axis in vanilla?

 

[Krieger66]

It's been a while since I've played vanilla FFH, but isn't that because there isn't a chaotic/lawful axis in vanilla?

Theres an option to add it in in custom games.

 

[Torugu]

It's been a while since I've played vanilla FFH, but isn't that because there isn't a chaotic/lawful axis in vanilla?

Sure, but if it weren't intended to be a Good religion it simply wouldn't have any effect on the alignment.

Theres an option to add it in in custom games.

Really? In vanilla FFH, not in Rife? O.o

I guess I should play vanilla once in a while just to keep track of that kind of change.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'm fairly sure that in vanilla FFH Order changes your alignment to Good. And, since FFH/Keal is still the first authority concerning Rife lore, this makes Order a "Good" religion (lorewise).


I have always felt that the term "Good" in FFh (and to a lesser extent in Rife) doesn't actually mean that a leader or a religion is "good" but rather that they are likely to stand on the side of the "Good" gods in their war against Agares etc.

Bannor are one example for that but it becomes even more obvious if you take the time to actually think about the Alignment of the Grigori and especially Cassiel.
Cassiel is true neutral, the most neutral of all FFH leaders in fact, yet he has an almost Gandhi-like character (except that he realizes that peaceful resistance won't get you very far in Erebus). and that isn't "good" then I don't know either.

Pretty much the way I see it. "Good" is siding with the good gods; those that are loyal to the One. "Evil" is siding with the evil gods; those that rebelled. Incidentally of course, the majority of Good leaders would be called good by the standard definition as well, and vice versa for evil. Some outliers would be Basium, several neutral leaders, etc. Certain leaders are still outliers (D'tesh, for example), but have other reasons for their alignments; D'tesh is trying to become a god, for his part, by using the power of the Opalus Mortis, Gem of Death. In effect, he has become one of the rebelling gods.

Lawful and Chaotic do represent real world alignments, however; As far as the gods are concerned, it's more the way the way they approach the Compact and their relationship with their worshipers.

Is there any way to "teach" the AI that they don't have to attack fireballs and other summons that will die at start of owner's next turn?

Theres an option to add it in in custom games.

Not that I am aware of.

Sure, but if it weren't intended to be a Good religion it simply wouldn't have any effect on the alignment.

It does still affect Moral Alignment, btw. Order's major effect is on Lawful, as it is very easy for that particular religion to lose it's way (regardless of whether Junil does himself); I can easily see a Lawful Evil version of the Order.

 

[Jheral]

I'm fairly sure that in vanilla FFH Order changes your alignment to Good. And, since FFH/Keal is still the first authority concerning Rife lore, this makes Order a "Good" religion (lorewise).

That's one of my main gripes with any alignment system; it assumes that the writer's idea of Good and Evil is absolute, and always right.

I'm not going to go into that argument again, though.

Really? In vanilla FFH, not in Rife? O.o

Indeed, only in RifE.

 

[Jheral]

-snip-

We've had this argument before, but why call them Good and Evil if good and evil are not the basis for that division?

 

[Valkrionn]

We've had this argument before, but why call them Good and Evil if good and evil are not the basis for that division?

Honestly, because that's what it's called.

I have an idea or two that I may get on #erebus to discuss later today, though.

 

[Krieger66]

Sure, but if it weren't intended to be a Good religion it simply wouldn't have any effect on the alignment.





Really? In vanilla FFH, not in Rife? O.o

I guess I should play vanilla once in a while just to keep track of that kind of change.

I guess I missed the "FFH", I thought vanilla ffh was when Mulcarn was in power though, right? FFH 2 deals with the time period right after Mulcarn's reign as far as I'm aware...

Good and evil are perspectives though right? A murderer could see killing people as good while seeing everyone else as evil. Mainstream good and evil is dictated by an authority or person in power, so I'd think The One(whatever the god's name in RiFE is) would decide what universally makes someone "good" or "evil". Those on his side in that case would be good and renegade gods and their followers would be evil. Anyone on neither side would be neutral(though they would usually gravitate closer to one extreme than another, for instance Kilmorph would probably be closer to good than evil).

Anyone performing actions in conflict with his beliefs would also tend to be viewed as evil and vice-versa.

 

[A Moon]

I can easily see a Lawful Evil version of the Order.

Didn't that actually happen in the original DnD campaign? The High Priests corrupted things such that there was no longer any link between them and Junil any more, if memory serves. Or am I just imagining that I read that some where?

I guess I missed the "FFH", I thought vanilla ffh was when Mulcarn was in power though, right? FFH 2 deals with the time period right after Mulcarn's reign as far as I'm aware...

Ah, FFH1... Good times. Nah Vanilla ffh was also set in the age of rebirth. But the backstories were much more loosely tied to the original campaign I don't think Mulcarn was mentioned at all. Two of the Octopus Overlords were player characters though. Also, almost none of the leaders or civilizations had pedia entries, the ones that did had a few lines, and there were no unique buildings (because there were none in regular Civ either back then), unique civ units or unique civ heroes. Fall From Heaven: Age of Ice, the scenario for BtS, on the other hand, does (surprisingly) deal with the Age of Ice.[/Historylesson]

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah in the Lore the high priests continue to rule after Sabathiel leaves. As if he is giving them the orders.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Bannor and the Priests of the Order who led them descended into Lawful Evil, although Kael has explicitly stated that Junil himself is still good.

It is strongly implied (especially in the Bazaar of Mammon civilopedia entry) that the corrupted Bannor were controlled by the Stewards of Inequity. The Priesthood of Junil was instead in the service of Mammon. Of course, even among the most devout worshipers of Mammon most do not know whom they serve.

 

[Ilyes]

Might I request for the poor Lanun (but really, for anyone) a "Master Shipyard" building, along the lines of Master Outfitter, Master Siegesmith and the like?

 

[Torugu]

I don't think there really is a need for a Master Shipyard until the AI can actually use ships...

Also I think there were some plans to rework(/remove?) the master buildings when the new guild system is implemented.

 

[Ilyes]

Oh, ok... yeah, the AI really doesn't seem to use ships, except for general pillage and blocking trade routes. Pity for the removal of the master buildings, though... I really appreciated the micromanaging -expecially blasting foes from 4 tiles away with masterwork mechanos siege weapons

 

[Valkrionn]

The master buildings will be merged into the guilds, more or less. At least, that is the current plan.

 

[Krieger66]

I'm enjoying the varied spawns, its makes the game much more fun not being spammed with trolls.
This has got to be the most hilarious game I've ever played...I'm the AV founder, the bannor just converted to AV, and they oddly still hate me...

 

[PPQ_Purple]

The master buildings always were and for now still are my favorite aspect of the game. The ability to customize my units really is the key. And they give a great use for Great Engineers since RiFE simply does not give you any time or incentive to spam wonders when all your effort goes into fighting off the barbarian hordes.

*sigh*