In What Electronic Entertainment Have You Been Partaking #18: Reticulating Splines

[EgonSpengler]

The problem is sheer scope of it. It makes orienting in the possibilities quite complicated. For example...I thought I had something in my fireball/incinerate combo, because it doubled cast speed while providing additional close range damage without spending passive points. Then I found out how a single support gem-spell echo-boosts cast rate way beyond what cast while channeling can provide. And then I found out how crappy the fire support gems are for spells compared to lightning ones, which prompted complete rethink of my character....

There are so many combinations and possibilities and the moth on damage and defense is complex and mostly unknown to players. I use trial and error mostly once I hit some barrier to making progress. Tabula Rosa's help and...I finally got Path of Building to work! My game world is pretty confined because I limit myself to real melee only. I can ignore having to learn the subtleties of magic, range fighting, and raising armies of zombies or other specters. Let me know how you redo your toon.

The problem I face is when I hit a performance wall and can't diagnose what's wrong with my character. For example, most of the time there's so much mayhem on the screen, that when my character gets killed I have no idea what got him/her. Is there a "combat log" or something? I think there was some other game that did that. After the battle, you could scroll down and see "Xenomorph sprayed Egon for 1 trillion acid damage!" or whatever. I can't remember which game it was.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The problem I face is when I hit a performance wall and can't diagnose what's wrong with my character. For example, most of the time there's so much mayhem on the screen, that when my character gets killed I have no idea what got him/her. Is there a "combat log" or something? I think there was some other game that did that. After the battle, you could scroll down and see "Xenomorph sprayed Egon for 1 trillion acid damage!" or whatever. I can't remember which game it was.

There is no combat log or way in POE to know why you died beyond game knowledge. Too much stuff flashing and banging on the screen doesn't help. This gets discussed on the forums, but GGG says it is not practical to implement.

I see these as the most common culprits:

• One shots from a distance for more life than I can mitigate (Immortal call can help)
• Being stuck in mob with no way out (beat to death?) (Phasing, leap slam, other movement skills)
  
• Corrupted blood DoT (avoid bleed)
• Monster life leech (passive tree node)
• Reflect (avoid)

I can deal with the last three; playing smarter can solve #2; but one shots are difficult.

Block, evade, avoid and knowing when to run are one's tools. I try to build phasing into all my builds and keep it up 50%+ of the time.

 

[Sarin]

The problem I face is when I hit a performance wall and can't diagnose what's wrong with my character. For example, most of the time there's so much mayhem on the screen, that when my character gets killed I have no idea what got him/her. Is there a "combat log" or something? I think there was some other game that did that. After the battle, you could scroll down and see "Xenomorph sprayed Egon for 1 trillion acid damage!" or whatever. I can't remember which game it was.

Been there a couple times already. Last time at level 86, I had no problem mapping but kept taking at least one weird oneshot per map, which completely tanked my progress. Rethought it, rebuilt it, scrapped the CwC scheme and fire damage altogether, and now I'm at level 88, mapping is fast so far, pushing 10k eHP on physical and the rest is from 19k on chaos to 26-33k on elements. Bosses take longer though...at those annoying multi-stage ones I can easily spend a minute or longer, and that's a long time in PoE.

My advice, defense before offense (my current build has so far only 20 passives in offensive or support offensive skills, rest is defense) and blink travel skills are your friend. Don't be afraid to jump back to the doorway to funnel the mobs. I've adopted a habit of clicking a strongbox and instantly teleporting away without looking, so the mobs won't spawn around me.

• Corrupted blood DoT (avoid bleed)

• Monster life leech (passive tree node)

Corrupted blood sucks. I finally found how some people avoid it, unfortunately I don't have the resources to get a hundred useful jewels and drop vaal orbs on them until one gets the right modifier.

I didn't even know that mobs can cause DoT with leeching. Oh well...that explains some strange DoTs I encountered.

 

[cardgame]

I feel like I would have a really bad time if I spent so long working on my character and it turns out it's ****

but also I am highly discouraged by "needing" to put in hours of minmax research.

let's say I played a bunch of PoE, how hard is it to re-skill your character? or are you just screwed?

 

[Sarin]

I feel like I would have a really bad time if I spent so long working on my character and it turns out it's ****

but also I am highly discouraged by "needing" to put in hours of minmax research.

That's what PoB is for, allows you to simulate your char to see the performance.

But PoE is a lot more about actually playing, failing and gaining insight and feel for the game this way rather than just research.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I feel like I would have a really bad time if I spent so long working on my character and it turns out it's ****

but also I am highly discouraged by "needing" to put in hours of minmax research.

let's say I played a bunch of PoE, how hard is it to re-skill your character? or are you just screwed?

It depends. At the start of every new league all your old characters (now in standard) get a free passive tree reset and can change ascendancy. You cannot change the character class (witch, duelist, marauder etc.) Once your toon hits level 70 or so, you usually have enough currency to go back and change your passive tree and improve it. A lot of folks just start new characters and build off what they now know and the gear they have collected previously in the league.

In Standard you have access all the gear and currency you have collected since you began playing the game.
In the current league (Heist) you have access all the gear and currency you have collected since you began playing that league.

My goal each league is to level a guy to 90 and be able to clear maps up to Tier 12-13. I can usually do it with one guy. I can usually explore most of the more difficult league content. I then collect league specific items to have in standard when the league ends.

In standard I keep 3-4 characters updated with new passive tress and new gear from later leagues. I like playing them. In standard I can probably do everything except the very top bosses. But I handicap myself by only playing sword and axe wielding melee guys. No spell casters or archers or necromancers. Melee play is the red-headed stepchild of POE.

POE is a friendly community and there is help around. I don't min max anything. Come join us. I'm happy to help you.

 

[cardgame]

But PoE is a lot more about actually playing, failing and gaining insight and feel for the game this way rather than just research.

Elephant and the blind man, eh?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

In Morrowind, it's possible to eat scrap metal. That's metal.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I feel like I would have a really bad time if I spent so long working on my character and it turns out it's ****

Yeah, don't get too attached to any one character. Early on, you'll be "learning by doing" and new players should just dive in, knowing in advance that your character is going to hit a wall, or some new idea will occur to you, or you'll want to try something different.

But also, every quarter a new DLC is released, and you have to start a new character to access the new content. The game is designed to encourage you to start over, again and again, even if you've been playing for years. You keep all of your old characters, so if you make a character you really like, or if a new DLC is just a dud, you can keep playing your old guy/gal.

but also I am highly discouraged by "needing" to put in hours of minmax research.

You don't. In fact, you shouldn't.

The game is split into two main parts: The Story and The Atlas of Worlds.

The 10-chapter story arc (aka "Acts") takes your character up through level 70-75, and is a complete game of its own (on initial release, the 10 Acts was the whole game). Veteran players can "speed run" through the Story Acts in maybe a dozen hours, I think? I'm not sure how fast the fastest players are, but I'm not even close to that fast. I prefer to take my time playing the Acts, even having done it several times. On your first run, learning the game and poking your nose into every nook, I guess it'd probably be 20-30 hours. You could easily spend 100 hours putting 2-3 completely different characters through the Story section and never even reach the Atlas of Worlds.

The Atlas of Worlds (aka "Maps") is the advanced game, and is specifically designed to challenge veteran players. When the game was first released, it didn't even exist yet. When we're talking about our characters stalling out at level 80-88, and using Path of Building to try to sort things out, we're talking about the advanced game.

I don't think tools like Path of Building and poe.ninja are good to even suggest to a new player. They're intended for veteran players trying to tackle the Atlas of Worlds. They presume knowledge of the game, and can be confusing and complicated in their own right.

You could easily play a couple of hundred hours without getting very deep into the advanced game and needing or using any "min/maxing." The game is [flipping] huge. I think I'm on my 8th or 10th character and still haven't seen and done everything.

let's say I played a bunch of PoE, how hard is it to re-skill your character? or are you just screwed?

Not hard. First, your equipment and Skill Gems can always be swapped out whenever you like. You could even do it in the middle of a fight, but that'd be silly. Second, whenever a new DLC (aka "Leagues") is released - roughly every 3 months - all of your existing characters get a full "respec" of all of their skill points.

 

[Sarin]

In Morrowind, it's possible to eat scrap metal. That's metal.

Ah, yes, the staple of Elder Scrolls alchemy, identifying the ingredient effects by eating them. Including but not limited to metal, minerals, diamonds and various body parts of humanoids, daedra and undead, including secretions produced by diseased individuals and actual giant's toe.

Yum.

 

[PhroX]

I feel like I would have a really bad time if I spent so long working on my character and it turns out it's ****

but also I am highly discouraged by "needing" to put in hours of minmax research.

let's say I played a bunch of PoE, how hard is it to re-skill your character? or are you just screwed?

If you want to put together a build completely from scratch, then hours of research is probably an underestimate. There is a huge amount of stuff that a good endgame build needs to consider. Fortunately, there is a simple answer - let other people do the work and follow the guides they write. I'd still say you should probably go in blind on your first character, just to get a feel for the game mechanics and whether you're enjoying it, but also accept that you will mess it up, likely to the point where it's not even worth repseccing (from my experience, most new players start hitting a wall in act 3 or 4 due to build mistakes).

Once you've done that though, spending a little time looking at a few build guides and then following one that sounds interesting to you for your second character will make things a lot more enjoyable IMO. Don't worry too much about understanding the whys of the guide writer's decision making, just focus on experiencing the game with something that works and getting better at playing. Do that for a few characters, then maybe look again at coming up with your own stuff if you're interested in that side of the game (personally I still tend to take guides as the base for my characters, but tweak the builds a bit to fit exactly what I'm trying to do and/or what I find).

The difference between a well built character and a poorly built one is amazing, particularly when you get further into the game. While my first 3-4 characters were each better than the last, I was getting really frustrated with the game and my inability to progress and was considering just giving up on the game. Fortunately I put aside my pride and followed a build guide (Arc Trapper in Incursion League) and the game was so much more fun to play, as my character could actually progress into maps and do a lot more of the content. And I've been hooked since with about 750 hours played.

I wouldn't spend hours going over loads of different options, instead just google search for Solo Self Found (SSF) Starter Builds for the latest league (currently Heist/3.12), and look over a few of the top results. These are meant to be builds that you can play without any initial investment and no trading, so they're a great way to get started in. If there's any particular types of character you like to play, I can point you at specific builds that should fit.

(Cremation Archmage Necromancer would be my current suggestion for anyone looking to get a long way into the game for the first time, particularly in SSF. It's capable of doing pretty much anything the game can throw at you with just some random rare gear - my only unique is a replica jewel that adds a bit of block, and I'm cruising through T16s)

 

[tjs282]

I can deal with the last three; playing smarter can solve #2; but one shots are difficult.

Oh gods, tell me about it.

Though I'm not playing PoE, but currently trying (and repeatedly failing) to do the horrible horrible horrible rail-shooter section in the middle of the Far Cry "Swamp" mission (17/20).

Spoiler Boring details :

The run, manning the gunner's seat in a racing, bouncing open-frame jeep, begins with the NPC-escort character Val getting into the driver's seat. And even though I already decoyed and sniped the crew of the parked jeep in the first arena just before starting this section (the autosave happens when I first board the vehicle; Val gets on afterwards), that still leaves me to fight (in order):

— a jeep with mounted machine-gun, which exits the previously locked garage opposite the starting point, directly after we pass it (a couple of well-aimed grenades takes it out, but if I miss, I might as well re-start right there)
— a Blackhawk helicopter with door-mounted minigun (1 rocket will take it down, if I can hit it — but my crosshairs are invisible against the sky)
— 2 more pursuing machine-gun-bullet-spraying jeeps (1 rocket each, fired almost before I see the targets)
— another parked jeep + crew of 2 mercenaries, both with assault rifles (rocketing the vehicle will kill the nearby crew, but it has to be done from a good distance away)
— a merc-encampment with a sniper-nest near the entrance (another rocket, if I can hit the tower), overlooking various mercs on foot (there's a fuel-dump that I need to blow up), and a second sniper-nest plus more mercs at the other end (machine-gun is nearly useless here: too many targets for accurate shooting — but I'm out of rockets!)
— a final parked truck + crew of 2 (machine-gunning the nearby fuel-dump will take everything out)

...and to do all that, I have a total of 400 rounds of machine-gun ammo, 6 rockets, and zero opportunity to pause or replenish health/armour.

The entire sequence is only about 2 minutes long, but it's absolutely hellish at Realistic difficulty, because only 2-3 shots on target will kill me — or, if I'm really unlucky, even just a single heavy-calibre or sniper-round. And if the NPC gets killed, that's also an instant game-over. I can (now) make it as far as the mercenary camp in about 80% of attempts, sometimes even with near-full health + armour, but that's where my luck always runs out.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Ah, yes, the staple of Elder Scrolls alchemy, identifying the ingredient effects by eating them. Including but not limited to metal, minerals, diamonds and various body parts of humanoids, daedra and undead, including secretions produced by diseased individuals and actual giant's toe.

Yum.

I thought the staple of Elder Scrolls alchemy were the exploits. Fortify Intelligence....when alchemy is governed by intelligence....

 

[AmazonQueen]

I thought the staple of Elder Scrolls alchemy were the exploits. Fortify Intelligence....when alchemy is governed by intelligence....

Using Fortify Intelligence to make better Fortify Intelligence potions to make better Fortify Intelligence potions etc to eventually be able to actually use the enchant skill yourself rather than paying someone a fortune (although enchanted items were a decent money sink in a game sadly lacking in them)

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I remember in Skyrim using the forify resto loop to eventually create a potion that literally no merchant could actually afford to buy. I think the unofficial patch removes it though.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I remember in Skyrim using the forify resto loop to eventually create a potion that literally no merchant could actually afford to buy. I think the unofficial patch removes it though.

I do remember going to the alchemist, selling some potions, buying all their ingredients, so I could sell some more potions, having to save and exit then load again so they had money without waiting a day, selling more potions etc, and eventually going home with enough ingredients to make another batch of potions.

Then when they brought in the legendary skill mechanic Alchemy was the obvious skill to drop back to 15 whenever it reached 100 so you could keep levelling.
Never had the patience to make it to the theoretical max level.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

There was also a glitch where quicksaving, murdering a shopkeeper, and then quickloading could refill their gold.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

My farm is coming along nicely in Harvest Moon: A New Beginning.

I'm trying to play the latest update of No Man's Sky (I haven't touched the game in over a year) but it's taking an hour to download on my Playstation 4. Playstation 4 has been rightly criticized for how slow it throttles downloads - they really punish you for not allowing always-on connectivity to download updates in the background.

Edit:
I got No Man's Sky's update downloaded and gave it a whirl. Meh. They promised sweeping changes but the planets all look exactly the same as before. There is some more variety in plant and animal forms but their distribution across all the planets are the same as they were before which goes a long way toward establishing the feel of the game. Things still feel empty.

There were some quality of life improvements - the upgrades on my suit's environmental protection system actually work now and prolong my surface time by quite a lot.

One thing I am really not looking forward to is going back to all my old bases and see how the update wrecked them. I am also not looking forward to learning a whole new manufacturing chain to create products to sell to make money. Fortunately, I saved up over a billion credits before my haitus so I shouldn't need money. I am still on the hunt for a Star Destroyer-type S-Class freighter base.

 

[Birdjaguar]

...Fortunately, I saved up over a billion credits before my haitus so I shouldn't need money. I am still on the hunt for a Star Destroyer-type S-Class freighter base.

Did they mention that in the past year the universe suffered a serious devaluation of the currency and your billions have been
re-calibrated and now show a value of 100 New Coin?

 

[Zardnaar]

Well in my multiplayer EUIV game went Portugal into Morocco into Andalusia.

Became very rich very fast. Downside is competent players in several of the big boys.

One player went Cologne into Westphalia and beat up the Burgundy into France player.