Rheinmetall
Interplanetary Assassin
In finland the gun laws limit the suicide killers to killing themselves only.
Inevitable gun control argument thread....
- Thread starter .Shane.
- Start date
In finland the gun laws limit the suicide killers to killing themselves only.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Look at this, look at Columbine, look at post hurricane Katrina. The police and government will and cannot not protect anyone in this country from these situations. Its purely up to oneself to defend against immediate danger.
Rheinmetall
Interplanetary Assassin
And the reason of this danger is that guns are everywhere in your society.
Tykinruoka
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I understand the ownership of pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns in the US, but I don't understand why it's also possible to own a full automatic weapon. Assault rifles, submachine guns and machine guns have no useful purpose in civilian hands.
At the same time the fact that anyone committing a crime, like a burglary has to expect the victim to shoot back makes it more likely that that criminal will carry a weapon himself and more likely that that weapon will be used. This really is a catch-22: In a society like the USA where a lot of people are legally armed it becomes a necessity for honest people to arm themselves in order to protect themselves from criminals who arm themselves in order to protect themselves from their victims who arm themselves in order to protect themselves from...
Really I am pretty sure that the European countries fare much better in terms of violent crimes (including homicides
) because people are not generally armed and this includes both crime victims and criminals - while this means that you have to rely on the police to protect you from criminals, you are also less likely to be killed when someone tries break into your house or otherwise tries to illegally obtain your property. Also of course it is much more difficult (though not impossible) for those nutcases to obtain firearms when they try to start a killing spree (this does not keep people from trying, or using other weapons though).However, with the US being what they are a ban on firearms would not solve anything as this indeed would just create a huge reservoir of illegal arms, increased control as to who can own what kind of guns should be contemplated anyway though (really arms should usually not be more easily available then driver's licenses and alcohol, but hell its your country
so do as you like, as long as you don't allow your nutcases to own intercontinental rockets or anything else capable of reaching the EU I am fine with whatever poison you choose 
). Now gun control would of course not help in the case of someone who never gave cause for concern and just bought a gun or a couple of guns and went on a shooting spree, but it might reduce the number of incidents...
As for crime rates, it seems that the last international survey which did focus on violent crimes by country was conducted in 2001 and just gives numbers from 1998-2000 (Source) - the US stand out when compared to "Western" countries but there sure are countries that are much worse off...
Spoiler murders per capita :
Spoiler assaults per capita :
Pistol purchase restrictions, and pistol "carry" restrictions, vary widely by state. As far as ownership, all states (AFAIK) at a minimum do a background check, most if not all doing it via the "instant check" or "NICS check" by which the licensed dealer contacts the FBI, gives them the name/address/SSN of the buyer, and the FBI scans their records and comes back with a yea/nay/waitwe'renotsure. This is (again, AFAIK) regarding as the minimum, and some states require significantly more.
This is the NICS criteria for denial:
FBI said:
Igloodude: sounds great.
Now if only poverty wouldn't force honest, clean, law-abiding citizens to purchase guns for others it would be fantastic ...
Is there no control on guns after they are sold ?
Now if only poverty wouldn't force honest, clean, law-abiding citizens to purchase guns for others it would be fantastic ...
Is there no control on guns after they are sold ?
A few states mandate that private sellers do the same notification/background check as FFLs (or only sell via FFLs - btw FFLs are federally-licensed firearm dealers), but as you can imagine it is as difficult to enforce as prohibitions on selling illegal drugs.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Personally I think hunting serves no useful purpose in the US. I see Rosie O'donnel on TV blabbering on about "we don't want to take away hunter's guns" as if only law abiding own a gun just for hunting. Anyone else is a criminal.
But fully automatic guns are (wrongly in my opinion) heavily regulated. Besides machineguns or even semi-automatic "assault weapons" are rarely used in crimes compared to handguns and other weapons so I see no reason WHY law abiding people shouldn't be allowed to own them.
If they are in the hands of criminals then they should be in the hands of the law abiding.
Che Guava
The Juicy Revolutionary
Personally I think hunting serves no useful purpose in the US. I see Rosie O'donnel on TV blabbering on about "we don't want to take away hunter's guns" as if only law abiding own a gun just for hunting. Anyone else is a criminal.
Whether or not you hunt for sport, I have to admit as a gun skeptic that in the country, I see a rifle or a shotgun is more of a tool. If you live in an area where bears, wolves, or even coyotes are a fact of life, you do need something to protect yourself
(and in anticipation of a repsonse: yes, I do realize that people need to defend themselves against criminals as well, and yes, I do see a difference between carrying a pistol and defending your chicken coop)
Now what exactly is the practical use of a fully automatic weapon for the average citizen. Shouldn't a handgun be sufficient protection?
I guess the problem is that the latter can become the former with a quick temper...
Tykinruoka
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Why should someone own one, for what purpose? Just for the sake that it is possible to own one?
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
For shooting, collecting, home defense. That's why I own them.
I don't hunt so I don't see a reason to buy or own a single shot hunting rifle.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
I think its funny that the far-left loons like Rosie says owning a gun for murding defenseless animals is perfectly fine but says owning one to protect one's life is somehow wrong.
Tykinruoka
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Shooting a machine gun for a hobby? Well, ok. There's nothing wrong in collecting either, but deactivated weapons should be enough for that. The home defence part is ridiculous, since IF an armed maniac breaks into your house, you'll probably end being shot while strapping an ammobelt into the machine gun.
I'm gonna pull out of this debate, I've never been good at it anyway.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Let me clear some stuff up. Currently, I don't own a machinegun but would liked to when I have the time and money to get the paperwork. And yes they are very fun to shoot if you have the money for ammo.
I currently own semi-automatic rifles which some would refer to as "assault weapons." I think you have the two mixed up.
My home defense gun is a semi-automatic 9mm carbine. Which is an "assault weapon" but not a "machinegun."
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
A rifle is always better at stopping a threat than a handgun. A handgun works fine, some choose shotguns but it comes down to preference. A semi-automatic rifle (or carbine) is my personal preference. Multiple follow up shots are important so you get a semi-automatic and hi-capacity magazines.
I'd wager that semi-automatic is MUCH more effective than full-auto so I personally don't see a need to ban full-auto while semi-auto is perfectly fine.
But people should not be punished for crimes they MIGHT do. I think this is a key difference between Americans and non-Americans on this issue. Confiscating guns, banning them or generally limiting them to a select privelaged few (how most countries do it) is basically punishing everyone for what they MIGHT do.
Tykinruoka
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I didn't mix anything, you just never said what you own. How would I know?
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
I'm sorry. I was not very clear in my posts.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
The average citizen cannot own a fully automatic weapon. You need a special federal permit for that which has a lot of restrictions and requirements for it.
Tykinruoka
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I think I shouldn't have joined this debate in the first place. Our two countries are soooo different. I'd probably end up getting a gun myself if I'd live in US. I don't need to own a gun here, since I can go to a local shooting gallery and shoot with any pistol/rifle/shotgun/assault rifle I want. They provide the range, targets and a weapon. I just buy the bullets and shoot.
