Inevitable gun control argument thread....

[Pokurcz]

A hypothetical constant access to guns by everyone in a population, no matter how nonviolent people are, will drastically increase the possibility of someone getting shot to death compared to the same population without access to guns.

Be it in he heat of rage, because of confusion, caused by fear or because of a simple accident, people will die.

If you decrease the amount of firearms at hand you decrease the chance of people getting harmed by them.

It is that simple.

 

[IglooDame]

I hypothetical constant access to guns by everyone in a population, no matter how nonviolent people are, will drastically increase the possibility of someone getting shot to death compared to the same population without access to guns.

Be it in he heat of rage, because of confusion, caused by fear or because of a simple accident, people will die.

If you decrease the amount of firearms at hand you decrease the chance of people getting harmed by them.

It is that simple.

And you decrease the chance of people successfully defending themselves from harm, too.

 

[MobBoss]

It appears that they surveyed living people. Did the results take into account that a higher rate of American assault victims are dead and thus could not be surveyed?

Proof please.

 

[Pokurcz]

And you decrease the chance of people successfully defending themselves from harm, too.

You decrease the chance of having to defend yourself from someone with a gun.

It is much more easy to run away from a person with a knife, and call the cops.

 

[Bugfatty300]

seriously, I'm not a big fan of banning guns either, but personally I wouldn't feel safe in a society/campus where most or even a sizeable portion of the poeple are armed. There are just way too many people out there that lose their nerves fast....

But guns are BANNED on this campus.

Are you saying you'd feel safe from attackers because there is a "no gun sign" on the door of the building?

A lot of good that almight powerful gun ban did the kids in VT...

 

[Tycoon101]

You decrease the chance of having to defend yourself from someone with a gun.

It is much more easy to run away from a person with a knife, and call the cops.

Yet criminals will carry guns, even if the law confiscated all arms.

 

[IglooDame]

You decrease the chance of having to defend yourself from someone with a gun.

It is much more easy to run away from a person with a knife, and call the cops.

Sure, if you're reasonably young and/or athletic. Me, I'm not going to be outrunning anyone anytime soon, and neither is my wife.

 

[Pokurcz]

Sure, if you're reasonably young and/or athletic. Me, I'm not going to be outrunning anyone anytime soon, and neither is my wife.

But the chance for an average person that someone would want to kill you is very small, usually when someone threatens you with a weapon they only want your money and valuables.

Policemen usually advise people to do whatever the perpetrator wants and later report it to the Police.

Life is not an action movie.

 

[bathsheba666]

Apparently you seem to be of the impression that its ok to beat living hell out of people at an unprecendented rate as long as you dont kill them.

Inventing strawmen again, or simply clutching at the contents?
Or aren't we supposed to notice the "apparent" nimbleness of your footwork.

Now thats quality of living.

"Apparently" you prefer quality of dying.
There, two can play.

I remind you of your own words, when I commented about violence: "Looking at the nature of those particular societies".

And?

Ironic that its your own particular society that is one of the most violent on earth.

Misdirection and Alanis Morrisette in one sentence. Attaboy.

Oh, and apparently this is lost on you as well.

Apparently you still think you're on track.

First it was gun-control laws. Now its knife-control laws. Any bets on how long it is before we see fist-control laws?

Getting desperate? or like to explain the
I infer that it must be legal to shoot, knife, or punch people in the US...
given your "apparent" disbelief.

Given the quality of your misdirection, I find it hard to believe it's only non-Americans who are repeatedly beaten about the head.

 

[IglooDame]

But the chance for an average person that someone would want to kill you is very small, usually when someone threatens you with a weapon they only want your money and valuables.

Policemen usually advise people to do whatever the perpetrator wants and later report it to the Police.

Life is not an action movie.

Here we go again...

I don't care if the chance that they want to kill me is very small - they're pointing a weapon at me and giving me every indication that are willing to use it. I have no moral obligation to rely on statistics or the goodness of their heart. Policemen advise people to do that because the policemen don't want to get sued, but legally sound advice is not always the best advice.

And believe me, I know life isn't an action movie - I daresay you probably have more misinformation regarding firearms in your head from them than I do.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Policemen usually advise people to do whatever the perpetrator wants and later report it to the Police.

I'm the one being threatened. Not the police. It's my life. Not theirs.

I couldn't care less what Mr. Policeman who wasn't even present at the time "wanted" me to do.

Do you think police would have advised the people being lined up in the classrooms of VT and executed to be do whatever the perpetrator wants and later report it to the Police?

Yeah... I don't think so.

 

[Pokurcz]

The knowledge that there is a large chance that potentially violent people have guns makes people get guns. This only escalates the stakes in the situation as the perpetrator becomes more nervous and more prone to use his gun preemptively.

IglooDude

"I don't care if the chance that they want to kill me is very small "

you do not care because you fear for your life and the lives of your loved ones. That fear is based on the knowledge that a lot of criminals in the USA have guns.

Because the chance of a perpetrator having a gun is much smaller in for example Sweden, I personally (and most other swedes) do not think about owning a gun for protection is necaserry. A the most, in my most paranoid instances, I have thought of having an axe with me Raskolnikov style or a knife, because I know that that is at most what I would need and only because i am bad at fistfights. (in fact you are not allowed by law to carry a knife in public in Sweden)

A smaller amount of firearms in a society breeds fewer feelings of need for protecting oneself with firearms.

So if you decrease the access of guns people automatically feel less need for protecting themselves with firearms.

It is difficult for me to grasp the extent of the fears you suffer from in the USA, is it really that unsafe. Is everyone a cowboy or a gangster?

According to statistics this fear that makes Americans bear arms increases the possibility for them to get killed rather than actually being able to protect themselves.

Bugfatty300

"Do you think police would have advised the people being lined up in the classrooms of VT and executed to be do whatever the perpetrator wants and later report it to the Police?"

read post 141

 

[raen]

Its on American society...the eye for eye thing....they dont understand that violence generates violence, having guns and killing people generates more killing, until there´s no hope anymore. But big companies interests...it makes money and all...and the rich ones have body guards...very nice indeed...

 

[MobBoss]

Its on American society...the eye for eye thing....

Funny, I thought that was an ancient Hebrew thing.

 

[downtown]

Ok, I'm not going to read this entire thread of stupid one liners, and the same damn 3 points repeated over and over again.

I support the American right to bare arms. I support concealed carry. However, between this incident, and one thats quite personal to me, I have to wonder whether we're doing a good job at making sure that the Mentally Ill do not purchase firearms.

Igloo, or somebody who is familar, what types of regulations are in place to make sure that Mentally ill, or possible unstable persons, aren't packing heat? Could such a regulation be reasonibly placed as to not unfairly restrict the right for a normal citizen to purchase a firearm?

 

[raen]

Funny, I thought that was an ancient Hebrew thing.

Im not saying others dont have it too.

 

[scy12]

A hypothetical constant access to guns by everyone in a population, no matter how nonviolent people are, will drastically increase the possibility of someone getting shot to death compared to the same population without access to guns.

Be it in he heat of rage, because of confusion, caused by fear or because of a simple accident, people will die.

If you decrease the amount of firearms at hand you decrease the chance of people getting harmed by them.

It is that simple.

It is that simple . Though in societies that already are drown by guns it is extremely more difficult to implement anti-gun laws . However even if such a law will need enormous time to be implemented , it can be done. Meanwhile in the (long) transitional period , how would society function ? Studies should be done about this.

And of course even if it does prove to be a better solution all of this comes into the great cost of weakening the Gun industry and what are 120 (or more) dead people a year compared to that ...

 

[mdwh]

He was pointing out that people who are being drunk and stupid are going to carry a gun whether there is a rule about it or not.

Thanks for the info on current campus rules. I disagree that there is a correlation between getting drunk, and breaking rules about guns though.

 

[JollyRoger]

Funny, I thought that was an ancient Hebrew thing.

As are the 10 Commandments

 

[mdwh]

Guns are going to fall into the hands of crims either way, so we might as well allow the public to protect themselves.

It's not the professional criminals I'm worried about - it's the lesser ones who might shoplift or mug someone, and also, the millions of ordinalry people who nonetheless are suspectible to rage, drunkeness and general violence...

I think there is a difference between say the US and the UK. The UK has lower availability of guns *and I'd like to keep it that way*. But I'll admit the US does a problem in that there are many guns, and they won't all disappear overnight whatever the law says.