Infinite energies?

[Kozmos]

Anyone caught this? I'm quite interested in what will become of this. Naturally I am a bit skeptical since it seems to violate known laws but if the Swedes (because SAABs are the best cars ever) say there is no chemical process involved I'm inclined to believe them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

The Energy Catalyzer is an apparatus built by Andrea Rossi[1], with support from his scientific consultant, the physicist Sergio Focardi. It is claimed by the two that the device transforms energy stored in its fuel (hydrogen and nickel) into heat by means of cold fusion of the two components, with a consequent observed production of copper.[2]

According to Focardi, "the hydrogen is heated at a given temperature with a simple resistor. When the ignition temperature is reached, the energy production process starts: the hydrogen atoms penetrate into the nickel and transform it into copper.”[3]

...


Bologna, March 29 2011 tests

In March 29, 2011 two Swedish physicists, Hanno Essén, associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society and Sven Kullander, Professor Emeritus at Uppsala University and also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy Committee, participated as observers in a test of a smaller version of the Energy Catalyzer. The test ran for six hours and the calculated energy produced was about 25 kWh. [9]

In their report [10] they write "Any chemical process should be ruled out for producing 25 kWh from whatever is in a 50 cubic centimeter container. The only alternative explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production." According to Lewan[9], they were given a sample of the nickel powder used in the unit as well as some Rossi says have been used for 2.5 months; analysis showed the unused powder was pure nickel while the used powder contained 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron. They prefaced their discussion in the report with a disclaimer: "Since we do not have access to the internal design of the central fuel container and no information on the external lead shielding and the cooling water system we can only make very general comments."

 

[Abaddon]

 

[uppi]

Nickel-62 has the largest nuclear binding energy per nucleon. And they want anybody to believe that they produce energy by fusion of nickel??? There is a reason fusion in stars only gets as far as iron.

Then there is this very strange composition of product elements. The nickel isotopes that would lead to a stable copper isotope on the addition of a proton make up only 4% in naturally occurring nickel. So normal nickel could not produce such an element distribution under hypothetical fusion with hydrogen.

And where should the iron be coming from? Neither copper nor nickel show alpha decay, so any possible decay path of fused copper (which should not decay to iron anyway) would also produce cobalt.

But if we already need a strange composition of nickel isotopes, the most likely explanation (if we assume there is really nickel in it) would be 0.5mg of nickel-65, which beta-decays to copper-65. Such a decay would easily produce the 25kWh of heat.

So an explanation that does not violate any laws of physics would be that it is a nuclear reaction, but just simple beta-decay.

Getting that much nickel-65 would not be an easy task, however. So if we assume that these people want to fool us, they could have put any radioactive material in it.

 

[emzie]

Quick, post this everywhere and buy up copper when the price crashes. Sell when people realize there won't be a sudden infusion of copper to the market.

$$

 

[Whomp]

Quick, post this everywhere and buy up copper when the price crashes. Sell when people realize there won't be a sudden infusion of copper to the market.

$$

Kind of like salt prices nearly doubling in 3 days in China after the Japanese nuclear accident. It crashed.

 

[innonimatu]

Speaking of credulity, this one doesn't even need commenting...

 

[Glassfan]

Cold Fusion... Right.

 

[Abaddon]

I posted a silly comic because I am terrible at chemistry and do not understand how the above paragraphs mean infinite energy...

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Ah yes, "Cold Fusion", the Loch Ness monster of nuclear physics.
Call me when a second team can reproduce their demonstration.

 

[Abaddon]

What is "cold fusion"

 

[GoodSarmatian]

What is "cold fusion"

It's the first researchable energy tech in Master of Orion 2 on normal starts.
It's also something of a urban legend in science.
Usually nuclear fuson requires extremely high temperatures and/or pressures like in the sun, and every fusion bomb uses a build in fission bomb as a detonator.
Cold fusion is, as the name says, nuclear fusion that doesn't require high temperatures.
There have been some disoputed experiments where scientists claimed they have achieved cold fusion, but none of those experiments could be succesfully reproduced and there are more plausible explanations for their results.

 

[El_Machinae]

Ostensibly, cold fusion will be a black swan from an outside perspective.

 

[Kozmos]

We'll see in October if its a scam when they deliver their first generator to that company.

 

[Abaddon]

Well, it would be kinda cool if they have managed it. Revolutionary even?

 

[Kozmos]

Depends on the efficiency and how much power it generates in contrast to how much raw materials is needed. Even if it is 'revolutionary' they seem to be very intent on clamping down on the designs instead of sharing it freely. Capitalism ftw amirite?

 

[El_Machinae]

I'm pretty sure that we'll be fairly happy with whatever price they charge. If JK Rowling gets to be a billionaire for Harry Potter, the people who invent cold fusion probably deserve to be trillionaires.

 

[Kozmos]

Harry Potter is horrible. Only if we can miniaturize it properly to power all sorts of things then yes they get to be kings of the world in my book.

 

[Aegis]

Harry Potter is horrible. Only if we can miniaturize it properly to power all sorts of things then yes they get to be kings of the world in my book.

Why would that matter when such a generator could plausibly replace hydro electric plants, nuclear facilities, coal plants, etc?

 

[Kozmos]

Because we still need to find a way to make transportation vehicles that don't run on gasoline. Oil has too many uses to be wasted on transport.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I'm pretty sure that we'll be fairly happy with whatever price they charge. If JK Rowling gets to be a billionaire for Harry Potter, the people who invent cold fusion probably deserve to be trillionaires.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we lived in a world where economics work that way ?
Unfortunately they are either scammers or the oil lobby will hire somebody to have them murdered.