Internet Vigilantism

[Timsup2nothin]

The part about this being a demonstration (ie not taking into account type of people in it) doesn't seem to help this line of argument, cause you had the same (taking out anonymity or threatening to do so) in the riots over that Milo guy In both cases there would be protesters named, with the end to cause them harm, arguably also by non-members of the law.
While a nazi rally is obviously terrible, the issue isn't easily framed as one of rallying by itself. Imo if extreme rallies have to take place then police should guard them, if only to avoid deaths (and not just on the far-right protesters; we saw now death on the other side).

Sorry, but if someone isn't willing to personally stand for whatever they are protesting I don't really support their right to protest. If they aren't willing personally then really are they are left with is causing disruption. I stand for things, some of which are unpopular. Those hurt my credibility, and I have to weigh that. But I do weigh it, rather than just putting on a pointy hood and raising a ruckus.

 

[Berzerker]

The actual nazis called the people who fought them terrorists, too

And how did the Nazis respond to protesters? Did they show up at their rallies with weapons and armor looking for a fight? Did they identify protesters for further retribution? These tactics are killing free speech and yes, they are fascistic and I dont care which side is doing it.

If your guys want to protest anonymously all they have to do is go back to the pointy hoods.

I referenced head cover already

There is absolutely nothing in that about anonymity. In fact, if they 'seek redress' and they are genuinely demonstrating these 'grievances' that would preclude anonymity.

The country was founded by anonymous protesters... Should protesters be required to provide ID before protesting?

 

[Lexicus]

The country was founded by anonymous protesters... Should protesters be required to provide ID before protesting?

In what way were they anonymous?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The country was founded by anonymous protesters.

NO.

The country was founded by revolutionaries. If you and your anonymous friends want to don your hoods and revolt, fine. I think you would all get slaughtered or incarcerated in very short order and that would be for the best, but that would be a parallel to the founding of the country. Armed assaults on innocents followed by going home Monday morning and pretending you had nothing to do with it isn't protesting, own up to it.

 

[Traitorfish]

And how did the Nazis respond to protesters? Did they show up at their rallies with weapons and armor looking for a fight?

 

[Berzerker]

In what way were they anonymous?

Boston Tea Party, pamphleteers, etc...

NO.

The country was founded by revolutionaries. If you and your anonymous friends want to don your hoods and revolt, fine. I think you would all get slaughtered or incarcerated in very short order and that would be for the best, but that would be a parallel to the founding of the country. Armed assaults on innocents followed by going home Monday morning and pretending you had nothing to do with it isn't protesting, own up to it.

The anonymous protesters came before the revolution. I cant believe you're arguing the Founders were unsupportive of anonymous protests.

@TF it was their rally, they didn't show up at 'antifa' rallies looking for a fight.

 

[Traitorfish]

@TF it was their rally, they didn't show up at 'antifa' rallies looking for a fight.

They turned up in somebody else's town looking for a fight. That seems, on the face of it, the greater provocation.

 

[Berzerker]

They turned up in somebody else's town looking for a fight. That seems, on the face of it, the greater provocation.

You just posted a photo of protesters avoiding violence to compare them with Nazis? You must not have looked at it, but nobody in that scene is fighting and its probably because those guys had guns. Looks like they were keeping the peace and didn't have to shoot anyone in the process. You dont know where all these people lived, but the fact remains one group showed up to protest a government action and another showed up to protest the protesters.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You just posted a photo of protesters avoiding violence to compare them with Nazis? You must not have looked at it, but nobody in that scene is fighting and its probably because those guys had guns. Looks like they were keeping the peace and didn't have to shoot anyone in the process. You dont know where all these people lived, but the fact remains one group showed up to protest a government action and another showed up to protest the protesters.

"Peace through terror."

Way to choose what you advocate for.

 

[Traitorfish]

You just posted a photo of protesters avoiding violence to compare them with Nazis? You must not have looked at it, but nobody in that scene is fighting and its probably because those guys had guns. Looks like they were keeping the peace and didn't have to shoot anyone in the process. You dont know where all these people lived, but the fact remains one group showed up to protest a government action and another showed up to protest the protesters.

Is your country really in such a state of disrepair that armed white supremacists can just roll into town, declaring themselves to be the provisional town militia, and this is a good thing?

So they were there to protect the fascists from the protesters, fine, let's accept that. Where they also there to protect the protesters from the fascists? Were they prepared to protect onlookers from both sides? And how do the police, the legally-appointed peacekeepers of the City of Charlottesville, factor into all of this? In short, exactly whose peace were they keeping?

If we can, between us, scrape together a meager half-ounce of critical though, it's readily apparent that self-appointed "peace-keeping" missions are functionally indistinguishable from intimidation.

 

[Kyriakos]

Is your country really in such a state of disrepair that armed white supremacists can just roll into town, declaring themselves to be the provisional town militia, and this is a good thing?

So they were there to protect the fascists from the protesters, fine, let's accept that. Where they also there to protect the protesters from the fascists? Were they prepared to protect onlookers from both sides? And how do the police, the legally-appointed peacekeepers of the City of Charlottesville, factor into all of this? In short, exactly whose peace were they keeping?

If we can, between us, scrape together a meager half-ounce of critical though, it's readily apparent that self-appointed "peace-keeping" missions are functionally indistinguishable from intimidation.

"What part of 'Shall not be infringed' don't you get?"

(anyway, US is making the world worse, though maybe it is just that they had their run as a Superpower, and the future may be different there).

 

[JollyRoger]

Perhaps we need to create a safe space for these weaklings. Gitmo seems logical.

 

[Berzerker]

"Peace through terror."

Way to choose what you advocate for.

Peace thru deterrence... You dont see those guys getting attacked nor do you see them attacking anyone. They provided an island of sanity in a sea of hate and they get called Nazis, go figure. Look at the guys with helmets and clubs in the background and how the appearance of a gun 'terrorized' them into walking around.

Is your country really in such a state of disrepair that armed white supremacists can just roll into town, declaring themselves to be the provisional town militia, and this is a good thing?

Not a fan of the 1st and 2nd Amendments? They can roll into town to protest government action with or without guns. If armed supporters of the action show up and a fight breaks out, I dont need a map to locate blame.

So they were there to protect the fascists from the protesters, fine, let's accept that. Where they also there to protect the protesters from the fascists? Were they prepared to protect onlookers from both sides? And how do the police, the legally-appointed peacekeepers of the City of Charlottesville, factor into all of this? In short, exactly whose peace were they keeping?

You posted the photo, go look at it. Do you see anyone getting attacked in their vicinity?

If we can, between us, scrape together a meager half-ounce of critical though, it's readily apparent that self-appointed "peace-keeping" missions are functionally indistinguishable from intimidation.

How dare they momentarily intimidate would-be attackers into peaceful behavior. People have the right to self defense, that includes gun rights activists. You're moving the goal posts, they didn't show up at someone else's rally looking for a fight. They showed up to protest and people looking for a fight came to them. And of course they're not even fighting in your photo, so now you've jumped to 'intimidation'. Well, if I was gonna attack someone and saw they had a gun, I'd be intimidated enough to avoid attacking them. I wouldn't attack the guys with helmets and clubs either, in fact I'd be reluctant to attack anyone with people armed with guns and clubs nearby.

RIP free speech

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Peace thru deterrence... You dont see those guys getting attacked nor do you see them attacking anyone.

They were the 'security' that allowed their fellows to keep people hostage in their homes and offices. Your support for people terrorizing a city tells us all there is to know about you.

 

[Berzerker]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

these people deserve each other

They were the 'security' that allowed their fellows to keep people hostage in their homes and offices. Your support for people terrorizing a city tells us all there is to know about you.

They were security for people exercising their constitutional rights because the anti-fascists dont believe in free speech

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They were security for people exercising their constitutional rights because the anti-fascists dont believe in free speech

Your continuing support for people terrorizing a city still says all that there apparently is to say about you.

 

[Traitorfish]

RIP free speech

I mean, we're talking about the occupation of an American town by armed paramilitary groups. If this was actually about free speech, that would terrify you, but instead you're defending it as a positive good.

 

[JollyRoger]

I mean it ain't really free speech until someone gets killed.

 

[Berzerker]

Your continuing support for people terrorizing a city still says all that there apparently is to say about you.

So protesting is terrorism and attacking protesters is free speech? Lexicus said the Nazis called protesters terrorists and you're doing it too.

I mean, we're talking about the occupation of an American town by armed paramilitary groups. If this was actually about free speech, that would terrify you, but instead you're defending it as a positive good.

We're talking about protesters and the 'anti-fascists' who dont think they should be allowed to protest... Yeah, free speech is a 'positive good'. Letting 'antifa' decide who can or cannot speak is neither positive or good.

I mean it ain't really free speech until someone gets killed.

And now a lawyer shows up to spread the guilt by association... Okay, nobody died until armed counter protesters started a fight. They hate 'fascism' so much they risked the lives of others to silence protesters.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So protesting is terrorism and attacking protesters is free speech?

Listen, you can play their distortion of reality game all you want, but you've already revealed what you are about so it isn't going to work.

A neo Nazi in Charlottesville wandered around spouting his crap at anyone he came across. He was treated as a harmless crank and ignored. No one imposed on his right to free speech.

But he doesn't like the whole "majority" aspect of Democracy when he's the minority, so he organized an armed invasion of his city to "make people listen." That isn't a protest, it's terrorism.

Around here, you are that crank being ignored, and based on your sympathy for the Charlottesville terrorists I assume you are sad that you can't get your fellow white supremacists and neo-Nazis to invade CFC with guns and torches to force us all to credit your nonsense. Internet.

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