Iraq: The mistake and the true solution that has no chance

[toh6wy]

You just got trumped big time.

Saying that makes it seem as if you believe that the Iraq war is a big success. Taking a look at the points dh_epic made (which are true or very close to it to my knowledge), I can't imagine rating it anything better than "Pyrrhic victory."

 

[JohnRM]

40,000 iraqi civilians dead, 2600 of ours dead, 300 billion dollars spent plus 200 million dollars a day, a government more closely aligned with Iran, civil war, and none of the things that they said being true (greeted as liberators, oil revenues paying for reconstruction)...

... you tell me how this ISN'T a failure.

40,000 Iraqi Civilians dead? That's it?
2,600 Americans dead? That's it?

I am not going to argue the cost of the war, because if it is the right course, which I believe it is, then money is no object; but you are going to whine about 40,000 dead Iraqis and 2,600 dead Americans? Not to undervalue the work they are doing there, but that is nothing. For more than 3 years of deployment, that is nothing. We saw 3,000 people die in front of our eyes in a matter of a few hours.

Civil War? Where? According to the latest reports, violence in Baghdad has decreased by nearly half. A government more closely aligned with Iran? How much worse could they do than the Baath Regime?! They hated each others' guts. Of course they have a better relationship with Iran, and they have to! Whether they like it or not, they need to portray themselves as Moderate and not as a puppet regime of the United States. Even so, its not like the Iraqi Government is kissing Iran's arse.

In many cases, whether you'd like to admit it or not, the United States was greeted as liberators. Even your own drive-by media is telling you that the Iraqi people are generally grateful that the US removed Saddam Hussien. If I remember correctly, it was something around eighty-three percent.

Finally, when has anyone of consequence ever said that oil revenues will pay for the reconstruction? I have not heard that from any government official in the Bush Administration. I know that they've said that oil revenues will help pay for reconstruction, and it is!

 

[Marla_Singer]

John, so 40,000 Iraqi civilians murdered is nothing compared to 3,000 US civilians killed in few hours ?

Just a question... how many Iraqi lives are worth the life of a single American to you ? How many Iraqis should die so that you would consider it as a more important event than 9/11 ? 1 million ? 2 million ? All of them wouldn't be enough ?

 

[C~G]

40,000 Iraqi Civilians dead? That's it?
2,600 Americans dead? That's it?

but you are going to whine about 40,000 dead Iraqis and 2,600 dead Americans?

In many cases, whether you'd like to admit it or not, the United States was greeted as liberators.

Tables turned?

Now, this statement is the epitomy of conservatism in the world. No moral judgments whatsoever. No clear distinction between right and wrong. Hell, there is no right or wrong. As long as it doesn't happen to you and your goals are reached.

 

[JohnRM]

John, so 40,000 Iraqi civilians murdered is nothing compared to 3,000 US civilians killed in few hours ?

Just a question... how many Iraqi lives are worth the life of one American to you ?

Is that what I said? What a relief, cause I needed clarification from you about my own statement.

40,000 Iraqis may not have had to die if they bothered to stop a man like Saddam Hussien from rising to and staying in power.

To answer your other question; If we are taking Iraqis in general, and assuming that most Iraqis are decent people, I would say...


...this is a stupid question! I don't want Iraqis or Americans to die, but I am willing to accept the death of many Iraqis and Americans (including myself) to succeed in our mission to re-shape the Middle East. In the long-run it will save many more Iraqis and Americans than it will kill in the short-term.

It was a stupid question, and I'll tell you why. You cannot take Iraqis in general. There are good Iraqis who deserve to be free from all of this and then there are Iraqis who are terrorists and deserve death.

Bad Iraqis = worthless

Good Iraqis = .999 x One American

In the end, I guess I would kill every last man, woman, and child in that country if I felt it was neccessary to protect the American people from a credible threat, such as the nuclear weapons. Of course, that would be more relevant if we were discussing Iran. The Iraq War is not so extreme, but we need to fight it. We cannot allow the Islamic World to continue to fester, to grow restless and to continue to press its attacks against the western world.

 

[JohnRM]

Tables turned?

Taking my statements out of context is simply amateur-ish and warrants absolutely no rebuttal whatsoever, unless you call this a rebuttal, and then, only that.

 

[C~G]

Taking my statements out of context is simply amateur-ish and warrants absolutely no rebuttal whatsoever, unless you call this a rebuttal, and then, only that.

Amateurish?
Is that the best you come up with?
Probably is more pointy than your message in the other thread which was trying to portray certain completely ignorant views about of genocide to be epitomy of liberalism.

Now that there are actual people being killed in numbers, you don't react and don't see nothing wrong with it.

The path from there to here is rather clear and evident.
Now your following statement here had at least some sensibility in it.

In the long-run it will save many more Iraqis and Americans than it will kill in the short-term.

Only problem is that nobody is sure about this.

 

[Steph]

Bad Iraqis = worthless
Good Iraqis = .999 x One American

Of course, there is no Bad Americans, only Good ones?
Do you also share the viewpoint of Custer about Native Americans?
A good Iraqi is a dead Iraqi?

 

[BasketCase]

Saying that makes it seem as if you believe that the Iraq war is a big success.

Nailed it square on the head, bro.

I know you don't agree, but this is my opinion, and after doing a whole lot of surfing and staring at a whole lot of numbers (including dh_epic's) I'm sticking to it. When polled on the hypothetical question of "freedom or safety" a lot of people answer with the first one. I'm one of them.