Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[AdrienIer]

1) how much would it cost to "easily feed 2 million additional people"? That food has to come from somewhere, and that's a humongous strategic reserve of perishables if there such quantities just sitting around. They would have to come out of the economy somewhere, in either greater imports or shrunken exports and both could have a devastating impact on an agricultural sector.
2) in what world would a country be given 2-3 years to prepare. Mass movements of people tend to be quick or sudden events, and they're hard to manage. Just look at the hard time the U.S. had in trying to house the 400,000 people made homeless by Hurricane Katrina. And those 400,000 were already living in the U.S., and the factories which made the temporary housing were largely already in existence.

1) It would have almost no impact on the agriculture sector because they'll sell their products at home instead of away : they'll sell it either way. The sector which will get a hit is the import/export companies, but they're less strategic. You're underestimating the immensity of food production (and its remaining potential for growth) in France (and a few other EU countries).
There would be some import needed for the products we don't make but my point was not that it would have no consequences. It's that feeding them wouldn't be leading to lack of food for everyone or enormous additional costly imports.

2) In case you haven't noticed the Syrian civil war started 6 years ago. 3 years ago it was predictable that we would get a massive immigration wave from the area. If France had decided to take a million of them we could have prepared adequately.

 

[Silurian]

The Indians wanted self determination. They declined the offer of dominion status (as previously taken by Canada) and opted for independence.

India became a Dominion, it did not decline it.

Like some other Dominions it latter became fully independent.


From Wiki

"The Dominion of India (Hindi: भारत अधिराज्य, Bhārata Adhirājya), also known as the Union of India, was an independent state that existed between 15 August 1947 and 26 January 1950. It was transformed into the Republic of India by the promulgation of the Constitution of India on 26 January 1950.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_India

 

[JohannaK]

You um realise that most of our migrants live in our cities, right? Where all the buildings are, where there's already lots of people? There's no reason your cities should be less capable of growing than ours or America's.

I'm a bit late to the party, but Australian cities are in my experience living breathing examples of urban sprawl and have ridiculously low density for, you know, cities. At least for European standards.

 

[EnglishEdward]

India became a Dominion, it did not decline it.

Like some other Dominions it latter became fully independent.


From Wiki

"The Dominion of India (Hindi: भारत अधिराज्य, Bhārata Adhirājya), also known as the Union of India, was an independent state that existed between 15 August 1947 and 26 January 1950. It was transformed into the Republic of India by the promulgation of the Constitution of India on 26 January 1950.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_India

Yes, the UK set up a dominion for India, but the Indians never bought into it.
While Canada was a dominion for over two generations.

The Indian nationalists simply did not accept the dominion status and
repudiated it in favour of independence at the first opportunity.

They regarded themselves as occupied by British however the British cared
to call it and then declared full independence as soon as the British left.

My earlier statement was a summary and summaries are approximations.

 

[EnglishEdward]

And what about Wales and Northern Ireland?

Well the Welsh won't even accept immigration from England (English people who buy houses there have found they get burnt down or otherwise damaged)
and the Irish have not yet assimilated the last wave of immigration the Protestant plantation so I see no reason why I should not just consider England.

Are you sure you weren't simply ignorant of India's population density? I think that a much more likely explanation.

Of course I am ignorant of country's population densities. For most of them it changes evey day.

 

[Arwon]

I'm a bit late to the party, but Australian cities are in my experience living breathing examples of urban sprawl and have ridiculously low density for, you know, cities. At least for European standards.

Take note of my next post on this, density as low as Sydney causes some real quality of life issues. And my city, Canberra, is even worse. The population of Valladolid spread across an area larger than Madrid.

 

[Ferocitus]

I'm a bit late to the party, but Australian cities are in my experience living breathing examples of urban sprawl and have ridiculously low density for, you know, cities. At least for European standards.

They certainly are.
Adelaide is trying to increase housing density by allowing 3-story apartments
in some suburbs that are now limited to 2 stories, but there is a kind of nimby
at work, especially in some older inner-city suburbs. Some people complain that
their rooftop solar panels will be in shadow, others that it will increase traffic,
etc etc. The most common worry is that house prices will fall as a result.

When I lived in Canberra over 30 years ago, we had a house that took up about 1/8
of the block of land. You could easily put 15 or more apartments on the block.

Maybe Arwon knows if housing density and house block size has changed recently.
(I left in 1981, a couple of years after the gelding of the same name won
the Melbourne Cup .

In short: I would be very wary of comparing Australian cities to any old cities
in Europe. Some parts of Sydney are fairly dense, but the outer burbs stretch out for
very large distances.

 

[Arwon]

India became a Dominion, it did not decline it.

Like some other Dominions it latter became fully independent.

Aside from Newfoundland they all did, really.

 

[Arwon]

They certainly are.
Adelaide is trying to increase housing density by allowing 3-story apartments
in some suburbs that are now limited to 2 stories, but there is a kind of nimby
at work, especially in some older inner-city suburbs. Some people complain that
their rooftop solar panels will be in shadow, others that it will increase traffic,
etc etc. The most common worry is that house prices will fall as a result.

When I lived in Canberra over 30 years ago, we had a house that took up about 1/8
of the block of land. You could easily put 15 or more apartments on the block.

Maybe Arwon knows if housing density and house block size has changed recently.
(I left in 1981, a couple of years after the gelding of the same name won
the Melbourne Cup .

In short: I would be very wary of comparing Australian cities to any old cities
in Europe. Some parts of Sydney are fairly dense, but the outer burbs stretch out for
very large distances.

Density is slowly improving in the Inner North and along the developing light rail corridor into Gungahlin, which likely didn't exist at all when you were here. The Town Centres of Belconnen and Woden are quite dense (I live in a modern 8 storey apartment building) but the burbs continue to expand.

 

[Ferocitus]

Density is slowly improving in the Inner North and along the developing light rail corridor into Gungahlin, which likely didn't exist at all when you were here. The Town Centres of Belconnen and Woden are quite dense (I live in a modern 8 storey apartment building) but the burbs continue to expand.

Canberra is, in many ways, a unique city by Australian standards - it's definitely not like anything in old Europe.
(The block I mentioned was in Lyons, just outside of Woden Centre).

 

[EnglishEdward]

So the prospects of Scotland leaving the Union seem to have fallen recently. Despite Nicola Sturgeon's claim yesterday/today that leaving the single market will basically auto-lead to a second independence referendum, she fails to recognize that most polls indicate that another referendum is even more likely to fail right now then before, there hasn't been a concise legal reason for holding another so close (especially since the upcoming Brexit referendum was a known factor), and now would absolutely be the worst time to leave the UK

Both the EU and NATO have stated that they would not consider an independent Scotland to be a legal successor to the UK (i.e. they can't just auto-join both groups). Scotland would have to go through the same application process that other European countries undergo, which takes years to accomplish. Since the Bank of England has stated it wouldn't allow Scotland to continue to use the Pound, indyScotland might want to join the Euro, except fiscally indyScotland wouldn't meet the requirements to join and they couldn't expect the good will of Germany and friends after the Greece fiasco and the near ones in Italy and Ireland. Scotland currently has a deficit of 10.1 per cent of GDP, which is worse than Japan's, and indyScotland would legally have to take on some of the UK's debt when they go too.

I don't think the Scotch voters would want to find themselves out of the EU, UK, and the single market all at the same time. I can't tell if Sturgeon's just saber-rattling or is actually that terrible of a politician.

I believe that Scotland will eventually split from England, I just hope it is for the right reasons.

The terms she and other Scots use are "independence within the EU" or "independent in the EU" or an "independent Scotland in the EU" etc

That is a contradiction, that shows that they have not read the treaties, more honest would be "subsidiarity for Scotland within the European Union", but that does not sell so well.

I have a lot of sympathy for Scottish nationalism, but the direction the SNP leadership seems to want to go is not about independence.

 

[really]

Well the Welsh won't even accept immigration from England (English people who buy houses there have found they get burnt down or otherwise damaged)
and the Irish have not yet assimilated the last wave of immigration the Protestant plantation so I see no reason why I should not just consider England.

The whole point of a plantation was that they wouldn't integrate.

 

[Ferocitus]

I believe that Scotland will eventually split from England, I just hope it is for the right reasons.

My guess is that it's still anybody's guess whether they will or not.

The terms she and other Scots use are "independence within the EU" or "independent in the EU" or an "independent Scotland in the EU" etc

That is a contradiction, that shows that they have not read the treaties, more honest would be "subsidiarity for Scotland within the European Union", but that does not sell so well.

You have no evidence that they have, or have not, read the treaties. The apparent contradictions you mention do not prove they haven't read the treaties.

I have a lot of sympathy for Scottish nationalism, but the direction the SNP leadership seems to want to go is not about independence.

As you said, it's about about what the SNP can "sell" to the voters at the next referendum, assuming they will have one fairly soon.

 

[EnglishEdward]

You have no evidence that they have, or have not, read the treaties. The apparent contradictions you mention do not prove they haven't read the treaties.

If they had read the treaties, they would know that the "independent Scotland in the European Union" is
a nonsense, and it would be rather foolish of them to lie by using a term so demonstrably wrong and
thus lose credibility, so I rather think that it is a reasonable deduction that they have not read the treaties.

 

[Ferocitus]

If they had read the treaties, they would know that the "independent Scotland in the European Union" is
a nonsense, and it would be rather foolish of them to lie by using a term so demonstrably wrong and
thus lose credibility, so I rather think that it is a reasonable deduction that they have not read the treaties.

That is not proof. They might have read them and are willing to accept the consequences.

 

[Kyriakos]

Poland can of stay in parliament apartment?

 

[Arwon]

Gee I wonder why these specific countries

 

[Ferocitus]

Gee I wonder why these specific countries

I don't know about the other countries, but Phil the Greek is an Australian knight,
so we're "special".

 

[Kyriakos]

He isn't greek; the ex royal family are iirc danish.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Not sure but I think a referendum is a little different from escaping from a German prison camp, where the escapees who failed to escape were executed by machine gun at the end
Also cant wait too see what new diplomatic incident with India is in the works

"If Monsieur Hollande wants to administer punishment beatings to anybody who chooses to escape, rather in the manner of some World War Two movie, then I don't think that is the way forward," he said on a trip to India.
Mr Johnson - who enraged Brussels during the EU referendum campaign when he implicitly compared the European Union to the Third Reich - "was not in any way suggesting anyone was a Nazi".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...hurchillian-vision-europe-talks-tough-brexit/