Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[EnglishEdward]

Nowadays only a few percent of people work in agriculture and there's a trend towards urbanization and local population density peaks. Population density is quite well correlated with wealth. I don't see which point you're trying to make.

I see that you are located in Dresden.

If the UK was to demand that Dresden provide work permits and jobs for housing and car parking space etc for hundreds of
UK workers after the UK leaves the EU, I rather suspect that the Dresdenites would find that a rather impertinent request.

Well from our perspective, the Indians opted out of the British Empire 70 years ago.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Not sure if drinking too much tea or having delusions of Rule Britania

Well now I am deluded enough to regard Indian tea as a more strategic import than
French wine and the 100 years war to obtain the latter ended badly being defeated by a girl.

I suspect that India will displace Britian in world GDP ranking within a generation, probably helped by the UK GDP going downwards.

You are not keeping up with things.

This is happening right now, never mind Brexit or within a generation. The only surprise is that it is taking so long.

 

[Silurian]

Thank you. You are right to correct me.

I was as the time recollecting the population density of England itself which is over 400 per square km although I wrote down the United Kingdom.

Well if you took off the area of mountains, desert and jungle in India you would have a population density over 400/km2 as well.

Obviously if Scotland is going to leave because of Brexit it should not be counted.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Well if you took off the area of mountains, desert and jungle in India you would have a population density over 400/km2 as well.

Obviously if Scotland is going to leave because of Brexit it should not be counted.

You are a smart lad and have worked out why I was thinking of England's population density.

For overseas viewers the point I am trying to make is that the UK is not like Australia or the Americans
which were scantily populated after the native populations had mainly died off due to old world disease etc;
there is no room for mass settlement in this island which is why the UK wants to limit immigration.

 

[AdrienIer]

If you want to be treated like a friend and ally then it is time to start acting like one.

We treated the UK as friends for 40 years. We weren't the ones who ended the relationship

 

[Gigaz]

I see that you are located in Dresden.

If the UK was to demand that Dresden provide work permits and jobs for housing and car parking space etc for hundreds of
UK workers after the UK leaves the EU, I rather suspect that the Dresdenites would find that a rather impertinent request.

Well from our perspective, the Indians opted out of the British Empire 70 years ago.

I don't know what the Dresdners would find, but I reject such ideas. It's good to have more people, because that means more products, services and opportunities for me. Housing and stuff will be built in time.
I also don't think that the Indians took issue with British settlers. British rule, cruelties at the hands of the British army, and general racism towards Indians were probably more important.

 

[Arwon]

For overseas viewers the point I am trying to make is that the UK is not like Australia or the Americans
which were scantily populated after the native populations had mainly died off due to old world disease etc;
there is no room for mass settlement in this island which is why the UK wants to limit immigration.

You um realise that most of our migrants live in our cities, right? Where all the buildings are, where there's already lots of people? There's no reason your cities should be less capable of growing than ours or America's.

 

[EnglishEdward]

You um realise that most of our migrants live in our cities, right? Where all the buildings are, where there's already lots of people? There's no reason your cities should be less capable of growing than ours or America's.

I am certainly not, and have never claimed to be, an expert on the distribution of migrants in Australia.

However the exact distribution of migrants within a country is not relevant to its overall population density.

So I do not see what your point is.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I don't know what the Dresdners would find, but I reject such ideas. It's good to have more people, because that means more products, services and opportunities for me. Housing and stuff will be built in time.
I also don't think that the Indians took issue with British settlers. British rule, cruelties at the hands of the British army, and general racism towards Indians were probably more important.

The Indians wanted self determination. They declined the offer of dominion status (as previously taken by Canada) and opted for independence.

UK leaving EU for same reason, we want democratic self determination, and we don't get that with the EU.

 

[Arwon]

Because you cited the size of the areas people don't live as an argument for a country having or not having migration. Australia's empty landmass isn't why we can have lots of immigration, because everyone goes to the cities.

Similarly, most of your migrants go to the good bits, like London. The physical area of places that aren't London don't really matter to the capacity of London. London doesn't even have a super high population density by large urban standards. It's lower than Madrid or Barcelona for example.

Also density in cities doesnt mean lower quality of life. People piss and moan about problems with traffic in Sydney for example, which is a problem of sprawl and inadequate public transport. Those would be likely reduced if the place had a lot more high density neighbourhoods which could be easily serviced. Some very high density cities are among the most efficient and liveable. Barcelona, to go back to it, is very likely a better place to live than London in part because of the livability created by density.

 

[Gigaz]

The Indians wanted self determination. They declined the offer of dominion status (as previously taken by Canada) and opted for independence.

UK leaving EU for same reason, we want democratic self determination, and we don't get that with the EU.

And because you're constantly equating the EU-Britain relations with the British rule over India, which is totally and in every way inappropriate and insulting, the Europeans are less than likely to give a favorable deal Britain.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah comparing the EU relationship with English imperialism is actually grotesque, it is absurd self-pitying narcissism.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

And because you're constantly equating the EU-Britain relations with the British rule over India, which is totally and in every way inappropriate and insulting, the Europeans are less than likely to give a favorable deal Britain.

Odd. You appear to be saying that the EU will be prompted to give an unfavourable deal to Britain as a direct result of what some guy is saying on the internet?

 

[Mise]

You are a smart lad and have worked out why I was thinking of England's population density.

And what about Wales and Northern Ireland?

Are you sure you weren't simply ignorant of India's population density? I think that a much more likely explanation.

 

[Gigaz]

Odd. You appear to be saying that the EU will be prompted to give an unfavourable deal to Britain as a direct result of what some guy is saying on the internet?

Not too odd, considering how readily Boris Johnson insults the Europeans with similarly awkward comparisons. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38670349

 

[Lohrenswald]

I don't know what the Dresdners would find, but I reject such ideas. It's good to have more people, because that means more products, services and opportunities for me. Housing and stuff will be built in time.
I also don't think that the Indians took issue with British settlers. British rule, cruelties at the hands of the British army, and general racism towards Indians were probably more important.

so like personally I find these views odd

more people bringing and making more products and services nobody needs, and are essentially garbage
oppurtunities I don't really get, more people will mainly make traffic heavier and whatnot
dunno how things are in Germany, but here housing is a mess. Oslo is beyond overstuffed, and even here more people really only means more competition for housing, raising prices even bloody higher. Personally I am pessimistic about my prospects to ever get property
And all the new people are basically destroying the place I grew up in, and I don't really have anywhere else to go

Of course my opinions don't really matter but sod it

also more people means more reliance on foreign imports, which I think is pretty bad

 

[AdrienIer]

Norway is rather special. Its climate is not very well adapted to humans and it is generally not sustainable without its natural resources. It works, but it is closer to the breaking point than more temperate countries.
In France we could easily feed 2 million additionnal people if they were to arrive tomorrow, and we could house them if they gave us 2 or 3 years to prepare. All with minimal additionnal imports. So the cost is reduced heavily

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

Obviously if Scotland is going to leave because of Brexit it should not be counted.

So the prospects of Scotland leaving the Union seem to have fallen recently. Despite Nicola Sturgeon's claim yesterday/today that leaving the single market will basically auto-lead to a second independence referendum, she fails to recognize that most polls indicate that another referendum is even more likely to fail right now then before, there hasn't been a concise legal reason for holding another so close (especially since the upcoming Brexit referendum was a known factor), and now would absolutely be the worst time to leave the UK

Both the EU and NATO have stated that they would not consider an independent Scotland to be a legal successor to the UK (i.e. they can't just auto-join both groups). Scotland would have to go through the same application process that other European countries undergo, which takes years to accomplish. Since the Bank of England has stated it wouldn't allow Scotland to continue to use the Pound, indyScotland might want to join the Euro, except fiscally indyScotland wouldn't meet the requirements to join and they couldn't expect the good will of Germany and friends after the Greece fiasco and the near ones in Italy and Ireland. Scotland currently has a deficit of 10.1 per cent of GDP, which is worse than Japan's, and indyScotland would legally have to take on some of the UK's debt when they go too.

I don't think the Scotch voters would want to find themselves out of the EU, UK, and the single market all at the same time. I can't tell if Sturgeon's just saber-rattling or is actually that terrible of a politician.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

In France we could easily feed 2 million additionnal people if they were to arrive tomorrow, and we could house them if they gave us 2 or 3 years to prepare. All with minimal additionnal imports. So the cost is reduced heavily

1) how much would it cost to "easily feed 2 million additional people"? That food has to come from somewhere, and that's a humongous strategic reserve of perishables if there such quantities just sitting around. They would have to come out of the economy somewhere, in either greater imports or shrunken exports and both could have a devastating impact on an agricultural sector.
2) in what world would a country be given 2-3 years to prepare. Mass movements of people tend to be quick or sudden events, and they're hard to manage. Just look at the hard time the U.S. had in trying to house the 400,000 people made homeless by Hurricane Katrina. And those 400,000 were already living in the U.S., and the factories which made the temporary housing were largely already in existence.

 

[Verbose]

I do not expect and I am not asking for a better deal than the remnant EU member states.

It is largely the UK Remoaners in denial who wish to cherry pick, which is very understandably confusing to those not familiar with UK politics.

And much of what Theresa May says about access to the single market, which is not
the same as being inside the single market, is merely an open negotiating stance.

I regard it as inevitable that UK exporters will have to fill in an extra form and continue
to comply with EU product standards in exporting to the EU after the UK has left the EU.

None of which is a problem. It's roughly what, say, Australia operates on in relation to the EU. They have a trade agreement though. And it's not quite what May has sketched out so far.

It wouldn't cover services though… And that's a biggie.