Is Britain about to leave the EU?
- Thread starter Mega Tsunami
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Mega Tsunami
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Well, each side continues to try and outdo the other side in scare stories. Osborne came up (on the back of an envelope) with some stupid nonsense about it is going to cost each household £4300 if we left the EU 
But did you see this reply from a member of the Question Time audience and I am sure his maths is likely to much closer to the truth than Osbornes:
The confident audience member said: "I did some maths on the back of an envelope as well.
"I should say Im an economist and a financial adviser. And I took the £10billion of net savings we would make if we left Europe and I multiplied these by 14, which is the number of years up to 2030.
I then used the economic credit multiplier, because of course you have the benefit of spending that money, the taxes raised on it, some economic growth and so on. And do you know the figure I came up with?
The figure I came up with was £1.5 trillion, which means if we leave the EU well be able to fund and repay the national debt by the time 2030 comes.
Get in as we say around here.
You can see it here:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/66...-UK-leave-Brexit-European-Union-back-envelope
But did you see this reply from a member of the Question Time audience and I am sure his maths is likely to much closer to the truth than Osbornes:
The confident audience member said: "I did some maths on the back of an envelope as well.
"I should say Im an economist and a financial adviser. And I took the £10billion of net savings we would make if we left Europe and I multiplied these by 14, which is the number of years up to 2030.
I then used the economic credit multiplier, because of course you have the benefit of spending that money, the taxes raised on it, some economic growth and so on. And do you know the figure I came up with?
The figure I came up with was £1.5 trillion, which means if we leave the EU well be able to fund and repay the national debt by the time 2030 comes.
Get in as we say around here.
You can see it here:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/66...-UK-leave-Brexit-European-Union-back-envelope
Surely the first problem with that is assuming £10 billion of net savings - the whole argument on the Remain side is that the money we pay to the EU is tiny compared with the money that EU membership saves us in trade advantages, so leaving the EU would give negative net savings.
Mega Tsunami
Emperor
Meanwhile, the American cavalry has come over the hill to try and help Cameron. President Obama has arrived here to bend the knee to the Queen, sorry, to wish Her Maj a happy 90th birthday. 
He has written an article in the Telegraph, including:
As citizens of the United Kingdom take stock of their relationship with the EU, you should be proud that the EU has helped spread British values and practices democracy, the rule of law, open markets across the continent and to its periphery, he wrote in an article in the Daily Telegraph.
He added: The US sees how your powerful voice in Europe ensures that Europe takes a strong stance in the world, and keeps the EU open, outward-looking, and closely linked to its allies on the other side of the Atlantic. So the US and the world need your outsized influence to continue including within Europe.
If only the EU was properly democratic, that might mean something.
He really shouldnt interfere. He (quite rightly) would not give an inch of American sovereignty and yet he expects us, who have already given a mile, to give even more.
Of course he is not thinking about anyones sovereignty, he is only thinking of the US. It is best for them if we are still in the EU as they reckon, quite rightly, they can influence the EU more if we are within. All fair enough he just shouldnt say it out loud and try and interfere in the democratic process of another country.
And Boriss answer:
Writing in the Sun newspaper, Boris Johnson accused the president of hypocrisy.
The US guards its democracy with more hysterical jealousy than any other country on earth, the mayor of London wrote. It is not just that the Americans refuse to recognise the jurisdiction of the international criminal court, or that they have refused to sign up to the international convention on the law of the sea. America is the only country in the world that has so far failed to sign up to the UN convention on the rights of the child, or the UN convention on the emancipation of women.
For the United States to tell us in the UK that we must surrender control of so much of our democracy is a breathtaking example of the principle of do as I say, not as I do. It is incoherent. It is inconsistent, and yes, it is downright hypocritical.
Johnson called on the public to channel the spirit of the early Obama and believe in Britain again. Can we take back control of our borders, our money and our system of government? Yes we can, he said. Can we stand on our own two feet? Yes we can.
You can read some more of the above here:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-london-with-eu-referendum-high-on-the-agenda
PS What fun it would be if Boris and Trump were the PM and President!
He has written an article in the Telegraph, including:
As citizens of the United Kingdom take stock of their relationship with the EU, you should be proud that the EU has helped spread British values and practices democracy, the rule of law, open markets across the continent and to its periphery, he wrote in an article in the Daily Telegraph.
He added: The US sees how your powerful voice in Europe ensures that Europe takes a strong stance in the world, and keeps the EU open, outward-looking, and closely linked to its allies on the other side of the Atlantic. So the US and the world need your outsized influence to continue including within Europe.
If only the EU was properly democratic, that might mean something.
He really shouldnt interfere. He (quite rightly) would not give an inch of American sovereignty and yet he expects us, who have already given a mile, to give even more.
Of course he is not thinking about anyones sovereignty, he is only thinking of the US. It is best for them if we are still in the EU as they reckon, quite rightly, they can influence the EU more if we are within. All fair enough he just shouldnt say it out loud and try and interfere in the democratic process of another country.
And Boriss answer:
Writing in the Sun newspaper, Boris Johnson accused the president of hypocrisy.
The US guards its democracy with more hysterical jealousy than any other country on earth, the mayor of London wrote. It is not just that the Americans refuse to recognise the jurisdiction of the international criminal court, or that they have refused to sign up to the international convention on the law of the sea. America is the only country in the world that has so far failed to sign up to the UN convention on the rights of the child, or the UN convention on the emancipation of women.
For the United States to tell us in the UK that we must surrender control of so much of our democracy is a breathtaking example of the principle of do as I say, not as I do. It is incoherent. It is inconsistent, and yes, it is downright hypocritical.
Johnson called on the public to channel the spirit of the early Obama and believe in Britain again. Can we take back control of our borders, our money and our system of government? Yes we can, he said. Can we stand on our own two feet? Yes we can.
You can read some more of the above here:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-london-with-eu-referendum-high-on-the-agenda
PS What fun it would be if Boris and Trump were the PM and President!
Mega Tsunami
Emperor
You are right - the point is it has as much validity as Osborne's scare mongering.
That seems like the opposite of:
Also, it's remarkable to see Boris Johnson, in one breath, criticise the US' lack of engagement with international bodies and advocate that we do precisely the same thing. Even for him, that's impressive.
Also, it's remarkable to see Boris Johnson, in one breath, criticise the US' lack of engagement with international bodies and advocate that we do precisely the same thing. Even for him, that's impressive.
So, a random person in the audience presumably multiplying £192m by 52 doesn't mean an awful lot, but that figure is at least much more honest than Vote Leave's oft-repeated claim that the EU costs us £300 million a week.
On the other hand, criticising the President of the United States for presumably thinking about US interests is rather silly. You'd expect him to do that, particularly if he's on an official visit to the country in the question.
On the other hand, criticising the President of the United States for presumably thinking about US interests is rather silly. You'd expect him to do that, particularly if he's on an official visit to the country in the question.
Manfred Belheim
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To be fair to him, he was actually criticising the hypocrisy of what Obama said rather than US policy directly, albeit with language that would strongly indicate criticism of some specific policies which don't apply to us anyway.
EnglishEdward
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Well Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is a natural born American so he should know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson
EnglishEdward
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