Is God Good?

[Old Hippy]

that sounds very much like the excuse used by a European mass murderer to avoid being found not sane enough to stand trail recently...

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know why people would think that morality does apply to God. Morality is a category that governs the actions of man. Why should we think that morality applies to God any more than it does to chairs, or the wind, or fish?

And here I though morality is something that assigns value to action and intent. The "of man" qualifier is something you unnecessarily, but conveniently tacked on.

I would agree that morality would require sapience, but it would make no sense to claim that God isn't sapient.

Or to phrase it as a question, if we're going to meet a sapient alien race, would you say they were subject to morality the same way we are?

In Christianity, morality is about communion with God. Evil is about separation from God. Morality is not alien to him, but it doesn't apply to him in the same way that it applies to us.

But from just that it doesn't follow what Christians (depending on denomination) think of as moral.

"Morality is being in communion with God" => "Homosexual actions are immoral" is a non-sequitur.

 

[kramerfan86]

If morality does mot apply to God, what does it mean for God to be "good"?

Same as it does for anything, judge the actions as good things or bad things. Either you think for instance the plagues of egypt and "harding the heart of the Pharoah" is good or you think it is bad. This "morality doesnt apply to God" is simply dodging the question, likely because you dont like the answer you would get if you thought about it.

Now on the brighter side of the coin you can ask the more positive "is self-sacrificing to forgive other's sins" and "preaching about loving others" good or bad and get a better answer. This is why for me which testament you put more stock in is sort of a big deal.

 

[Gogf]

Actions abstracted away from any agent have no moral weight. Is it wrong for a falling tree to kill someone? Is it wrong for the wind to steal your jacket?

 

[kramerfan86]

Do either of those entities control their own actions?

 

[Leoreth]

Actions abstracted away from any agent have no moral weight. Is it wrong for a falling tree to kill someone? Is it wrong for the wind to steal your jacket?

That is why moral judgments usually take action and intent into account. I don't think you can deny that God has both.

 

[Gogf]

My point is that the actions themselves bear no normative value. God is a different kind of entity than we are, and the fact that he can perform actions that are in some ways analogous to actions that we perform does not mean that he is subject to the same moral code. Relatedly, you cannot distinguish God's actions from God's will, because the two are coincident for an omnipotent being.

Furthermore, neither of you have addressed what "good" actually means. As I have stated before, in the Christian conception, "good" means communion with God, and it is obviously ridiculous to speak of God straying away from God. If you are to evaluate God within some standard of "good," you must be able to articulate what that standard is and where it comes from.

 

[kramerfan86]

Keep dodging around the question because you dont like the answer, that's fine, but to suggest you need a definition of "good" and "bad" is just a wee bit ridiculous.

 

[Quasar1011]

Yes, God is good.

Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

 

[kramerfan86]

Oh I agree completely the new testament version is undoubtedly good and loving.

 

[Quasar1011]

You say that, but the God of the New Testament also destroys His enemies:

2nd Thessalonians 2:8
"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

 

[Akka]

IF god existed (and that's a big "if"), the fact that the entire "natural order" is "eat or be eaten, usually while still being alive and kicking in agonizing pain" kind of give it away that he is a dickhead of cosmic proportion.

I don't really see how it's up to debate once you've stopped deluding yourself.

 

[Quasar1011]

I don't really see how it's up to debate once you've stopped deluding yourself.

See, that's the problem: Jehovah God has a rival. A pretender, usurper, so to speak. And he is evil. His name is Satan, and he operates best when he can get people to believe there is no God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Since the Bible plainly calls Satan "the god of this age", why do people still blame Jehovah God for the evil in the world? Start blaming Satan! God is good!

 

[kramerfan86]

You say that, but the God of the New Testament also destroys His enemies:

2nd Thessalonians 2:8
"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

Yea but destroying "the lawless one" is a tad bit different than killing a bunch of Egyptians because their ruler did exactly what you wanted him to do when you hardened his heart.

 

[Quasar1011]

Yea but destroying "the lawless one" is a tad bit different than killing a bunch of Egyptians because their ruler did exactly what you wanted him to do when you hardened his heart.

Why is it? God is Sovereign, He owns everything in the Earth, and everyone who lives upon it. He can set people up, and bring them down, if He so chooses.

Psalm 24:1
"Of David. A psalm. The earth is the LORD’s, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it."

 

[Gogf]

Keep dodging around the question because you dont like the answer, that's fine, but to suggest you need a definition of "good" and "bad" is just a wee bit ridiculous.

It's ridiculous to suggest that we need a definition of "good" and "bad" to decide whether something is good or bad?

 

[Dachs]

See, that's the problem: Jehovah God has a rival. A pretender, usurper, so to speak. And he is evil. His name is Satan, and he operates best when he can get people to believe there is no God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Since the Bible plainly calls Satan "the god of this age", why do people still blame Jehovah God for the evil in the world? Start blaming Satan! God is good!

Nowhere in that quote is "the god of this age" actually identified.

 

[Lillefix]

Why is it? God is Sovereign, He owns everything in the Earth, and everyone who lives upon it. He can set people up, and bring them down, if He so chooses.

Psalm 24:1
"Of David. A psalm. The earth is the LORD’s, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it."

Is that an argument?

 

[Traitorfish]

See, that's the problem: Jehovah God has a rival. A pretender, usurper, so to speak. And he is evil. His name is Satan, and he operates best when he can get people to believe there is no God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Since the Bible plainly calls Satan "the god of this age", why do people still blame Jehovah God for the evil in the world? Start blaming Satan! God is good!

Did you watch the video I posted in the OP? This doesn't seem to address the issues which it raises in the slightest. (Unless you think that the Old Testament god is, in fact, Satan?)

 

[Akka]

See, that's the problem: Jehovah God has a rival.

I thought that God was supposed to be all-powerful ?

Why is it? God is Sovereign, He owns everything in the Earth, and everyone who lives upon it. He can set people up, and bring them down, if He so chooses.

Well, so yeah, you kind of confirm he's a big a-hole.

You realize you aren't exactly helping your case here ?