Is "grunge" really that interesting?

[BvBPL]

...if someone plays 'grunge' today, they are just playing rock. Grunge varies so little from the alternative rock in general - both prior and post nineties - that it's a kinda pointless term to use about a musical style.

Uh, yeah. That's because grunge invented alternative rock. The parred down ensembles and use of distortion distinctly separates grunge from its antecedents in hair rock and new wave. The slower cadence separates it from punk. Grunge was revolutionary because it paved the way for all the alt-rock stuff that followed.

--

Your attitude is almost like saying "what's so great about Dylan plugging in '65 Newport? Now a-days plenty of folk artists do it."

 

[Traitorfish]

You'll find all of those elements in late Black Flag, though, so even grunge's proponents would probably hesitate to call what they were doing "revolutionary".

 

[Mise]

So grunge is basically slow punk?

 

[BvBPL]

You'll find all of those elements in late Black Flag, though, so even grunge's proponents would probably hesitate to call what they were doing "revolutionary".

Grunge's commercial success was certainly revolutionary, relative to Black Flag.

So grunge is basically slow punk?

Musically maybe, but the lyrical content differed a great deal. Punk was self-assertive, grunge self-debasing.

 

[Traitorfish]

Grunge's commercial success was certainly revolutionary, relative to Black Flag.

Commercial success is not relevant to artistic content.

Musically maybe, but the lyrical content differed a great deal. Punk was self-assertive, grunge self-debasing.

You got gloomy punk. Black Flag, again, for a start.

So grunge is basically slow punk?

Not exactly, because there's a lot of other stuff in there- indie rock, post-punk, heavy metal, whatever- but I'd say it finds its direct antecedents in punk, yeah.

 

[Atticus]

I side with the thought that grunge by itself wasn't that big a deal, but it injected something good into the popular music. Not just the alt rock elements, but also the thought of trying to do something a bit differently. Although, I think before that musicians had to go through the phase of following the grunge fashion.

It resembles punk a bit there. The punk music in itself wasn't that big a deal, but it was seminal to some good pop.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm not too sure about that comparison. Grunge was a regional scene lasting for last than a decade, while punk is one of the primary sub-divisions of rock music.

That said, I agree with what you're saying about the significance of grunge was as a conduit between alternative and mainstream music, rather than as a genre in itself. If it hadn't achieved the success it did, most people wouldn't be aware that it was even a Thing, any more than they know that Bay Area thrash or DC hardcore were Things. What makes it significant is that, for whatever reason, some of its major acts achieved crossover success, and in doing so had a serious impact on the mainstream rock that followed.

 

[Atticus]

Well, it was a pretty subjective comparison anyhow.

EDIT: And yes, punk is of course alive and kicking. I meant it's not a big deal as 'I don't care much of punk in it's original form'.

 

[BvBPL]

Commercial success is not relevant to artistic content.

Which is why Henry Rollins's name is on everyone's lips and not Kurt Cobain's.

LOL.

Of course commercial or popular success is relevant. It's why grunge is even a thing worthy of discussion.

Thanks for the laughs.

 

[Kyriakos]

Did Henry Rollins ever play a role in music which was more than just a mildly entertaining joke with a decent albeit dead simple riff and one weirdly hostile video?


Link to video.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think illram already won the thread. Just chiming in to say I enjoy grunge, but a lot less now than I did 10 years ago when it was my life (I came to it late). It still influences my tastes; so for instance, now I'm getting into techno/electronic/trance music and I'm drawn to slower, heavier, more repetitive songs such as 'As the rush comes' than I am to really fast stuff.

I have never heard of post-rock or shoegaze. Are those popular genres in Europe? Are they somehow related to grunge or something?

 

[Mise]

Which is why Henry Rollins's name is on everyone's lips and not Kurt Cobain's.

LOL.

Of course commercial or popular success is relevant. It's why grunge is even a thing worthy of discussion.

Thanks for the laughs.

This was probably your overall worst post ever.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I never thought such a gentle put down could cut so deep...

 

[Mise]

Well it's not so bad because he's a really good poster, so the bar is pretty high. But still that wasn't a good post.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yeah, I don't even know what that was supposed to be. Read like something we'd expect of like, Mouthwash, not BvLP.


Also! Kobain was a big Black Flag fan. So there's that.

 

[Kyriakos]

I still somewhat liked Rollins's episode with his letter to CarrotTop though.

Not that i would like to watch it again, since iirc it had CarrotTop's face in it too.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I have never heard of post-rock or shoegaze. Are those popular genres in Europe? Are they somehow related to grunge or something?

Post-rock is a kind of music that uses rock instruments "for non rock purposes". It's mostly instrumental and often . Essentially it's a modern day form of progressive rock. I think the most well known post-rock band is Sigur Ros, whose music often appears in things like nature documentaries.

Shoegaze is named from how the musicians would often look like they were staring at their own shoes. It uses guitars to make a distorted atmospheric noise. The only band that I've listened to that incorporates shoegazing is The Gathering on their album "how to measure a planet?".

 

[BvBPL]

Yeah, I don't even know what that was supposed to be. Read like something we'd expect of like, Mouthwash, not BvLP.

Sorry about that. I got up decidedly on the wrong side of the bed today and don't feel well generally. Usually I'm able to catch myself before I do anything untoward, but today it slipped through my inner censor.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Sorry about that. I got up decidedly on the wrong side of the bed today and don't feel well generally. Usually I'm able to catch myself before I do anything untoward, but today it slipped through my inner censor.

Hey now, we've got an olive branch thread now. Take it wear it goes.

This is a thread for musical archaeology.

 

[Traitorfish]

Sorry about that. I got up decidedly on the wrong side of the bed today and don't feel well generally. Usually I'm able to catch myself before I do anything untoward, but today it slipped through my inner censor.

Aye, no harm done, so long as you forgive me for calling you "BvLP", which I just realised I did.

At any rate, I do agree that commercial success is relevant, and is artistically relevant insofar as it plays a big part in deciding the influence of a band. In the case of grunge, what makes it significant, the reason that we're having this thread about it twenty years after the fact, is precisely that commercial success and consequent influence. All I'm getting at is that this success is not proportional to the innovativeness of grunge (although that's not to deny that the fact that its leading acts were greatly innovative), because most of its key features had been prefigured by early hardcore and alternative/indie/whatever-you-want-to-call-it acts. It was a revolution from the perspective of the rock charts, and consequently the genealogy of recent rock music, but not when taking the music simply as music.