Is Isreal overacting?

Is Isreal over reacting?

  • I'm Arabic, I think their action is justified

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm Isreali, I think they are over-reacting

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    194
Mott1 said:
I don't think he means it as an excuse for terrorism, I believe hes stating the root cause is Islamic extremism (I may be wrong) if so he is correct. Unfortunately there really is no military action Israel can undertake that will destroy Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a large movement supported by many in the Muslim World, in Lebenon and abroad. Even here in the U.S. a majority of the Muslim population support Hezbollah.

The best Israel can hope to achieve is to hurt Hezbollahs military capabilities and gain the same old temporary cease-fire until Hezbollah starts acting up again. The same sad and vicious cycle.

I think that the realistic approach here is to let Israelis to destroy as much of Hezbollah as they can and then deploy some sort of anti-hezbollah force in the southern Lebanon to prevent it from attacking Israel.

On a side note, I don't think your in la-la land:D , Israel has no choice but to take action, any inaction on Israel's part will only be seen as a sign of weakness and strengthen hezbollahs resolve. And any other Islamic extremist group whos intent is to annihilate Israel.

Exactly. Israel can't afford to do nothing, this is what people, sitting on chairs in their nice safe houses in the West don't understand. They can't imagine living in country, that is surrounded by real or at least potential enemies, living under constant threat of being killed by a suicide nutcase or a missile fired from neighbouring country.

I think if they lived there, their opinions would be somewhat different.
 
Winner said:
I think that the realistic approach here is to let Israelis to destroy as much of Hezbollah as they can and then deploy some sort of anti-hezbollah force in the southern Lebanon to prevent it from attacking Israel.



Exactly. Israel can't afford to do nothing, this is what people, sitting on chairs in their nice safe houses in the West don't understand. They can't imagine living in country, that is surrounded by real or at least potential enemies, living under constant threat of being killed by a suicide nutcase or a missile fired from neighbouring country.

I think if they lived there, their opinions would be somewhat different.

Righ.........................t

And what type of chair are you sitting in?
 
I think if they lived there, their opinions would be somewhat different.

Or in different words: :)
"Liberalism seems to be related to the distance people are from the problem."
Whitney M. Young
 
happy_Alex said:
Righ.........................t

And what type of chair are you sitting in?

Standard chair, but I, unlike you and others like you, don't make moralistic judgements of what should people in danger do to protect themselves. I know that if I were in position of ordinary Israeli, I would support any action taken by my government against anybody, if it was done in order to protect me and my family.
 
Winner said:
Standard chair, but I, unlike you and others like you, don't make moralistic judgements of what should people in danger do to protect themselves. I know that if I were in position of ordinary Israeli, I would support any action taken by my government against anybody, if it was done in order to protect me and my family.


Of course you have been making moralist judgements. They're just different to mine. Get of your high-horse, mate.
 
Winner said:
Yes, all because Jews are just evil blood-thirsty animals, right? :rolleyes:

Who said anything about all Jews? That's right - you did. You brought race into the equation. I was talking about a country.
 
zulu9812 said:
For all the talk about how much danger Israel, please try and think about how much danger Arabs are in.

Well, here comes that old difference: they themselves are the cause of their problems. If they let Israel live in peace, no Israeli jets would be throwing bombs on their heads.

You know, if I were an ordinary Lebanese, I would, first of all, blame Hezbollah for starting this nonsense.
 
zulu9812 said:
Who said anything about all Jews? That's right - you did. You brought race into the equation. I was talking about a country.

Yes, sure, I trust you :rolleyes:

I am beginning to agree with civ2 - people really hide under their "anti-Zionism" mask to cover their anti-semitism.
 
zulu9812 said:
For all the talk about how much danger Israel, please try and think about how much danger Arabs are in.

Aha! A trap! Any logical person would argue, "well, maybe they shouldn't be constantly blowing up innocent Israeli civilians." However, you have embedded the word "Arab" into the sentence so that anybody who replies can easily be accused of being a racist.
 
happy_Alex said:
Of course you have been making moralist judgements. They're just different to mine. Get of your high-horse, mate.

Yeah, that's right, I am making moralist judgements because I agree that an attacked country has a right to defend itself (how many times do I have to repeat it before you finally realize that?). Sure :crazyeye:

Now please excuse me, I am not in mood for this all again. You may continue in your israel-bashing undisturbed.
 
Winner said:
Yeah, that's right, I am making moralist judgements because I agree that an attacked country has a right to defend itself (how many times do I have to repeat it before you finally realize that?). Sure :crazyeye:

That's exactly what you are doing.
 
Winner said:
Yes, sure, I trust you :rolleyes:

I am beginning to agree with civ2 - people really hide under their "anti-Zionism" mask to cover their anti-semitism.

What mask do you hide under to cover your anti Arab sentiments?

anti-semitism, WTH does that have to do with the discussion, I haven't got an antisemietic bone in my body, this is all about an over reaction not about whether we like Jews or Arabs, it's clear you want to bandy around the raccist card, but not one person so far has showed that he is raccist? WE are considering what is happening there and we are deploring indiscriminate bombing of innocents by suposedly morally higher people right? Racism :lol: leave it out.
 
I want to say first of all this is my first (ever) post so hi to all of you and lots of hugs! :)

I am a European and I think Israel is going OTT. I feel that they are extremely iron-fisted in both this and the Palestinian scenario. The underlying doctrine of the IDF seems to be "total-war" in which you basically bomb the hell out of the country you are fighting against, without due regard for civilian casualties. In the US, this doesn't seem to effect support for Israel (57% in latest poll) but in Europe its a PR-disaster. I put part of this down partly to the European past experience of colonial struggle, and the shame and regret of Israeli-style tactics used back then e.g. Algeria, Ireland, except of course in cases of countries like mine (Ireland) where we see Israel's control of the Palestinian territories as paralleling the former British occupation. Also, the NI Peace Process has influenced European public-opinion more towards the view of conflict resolution through dialogue rather than military means - especially where there is a separatist conflict and if historic injustices were involved.

Also harming Israel's case in this matter is the disregard for UN resolutions criticising it. They demand the implementation of Resolution 1559 disarming Hezbollah, while ignoring resolutions demand withdrawl to 1967 borders. They have also alienated Euro-opinion by building settlements in the occupied West Bank, Gaza (Palestine) and Golan (Syrian territory). And while they eventually got out of Gaza, they continued bombing it, undermining the spirit of the exercise and arguably provoking Hamas to capture IDF soldiers. I agree that in one sense, Hezbollah was unprovoked, but the Arab world could have been said to be provoked by the Gaza offensive. I would have more sympathy for Israel if it at least tried a new peace-process with the Palestinians and its Arab neighbours, instead of the broken-record routine of "we don't have a partner on the other side" that has spanned 6 years encompassing Arafat, Abbas and now Hamas.

For me personally, I also reflect on the fact that from the 60's until the late 90's, the Provisional IRA in NI planted bombs incessantly in England and NI, yet the British government did not bomb Dublin or Cork. Yet Israel calls the wholesale destruction of Lebanese infrastructure "self-defence". There is no proportionality to this. I also contrast the 4 weeks President Bush gave to the Taliban to hand over Osama with the hours it took for Israel to attack Lebanon. I think the Afghan campaign showed far more restraint than Israel's campaigns in Palestine and Lebanon. However I also think that one of the reasons why the Iraq campaign has gone sour for the Americans is because of the ill-advised decision - reported in the media - to seek Israeli advice on counter-insurgency. I think experience shows how unwise such advice is. You can kill the terrorist, but you won't kill the terrorism until you address the underlying causes and grievances that give rise to it.

Americans are entitled to their views. But I think that they are being failed by a one-sided message from their leaders' blind support for Israel and by politicians beholden to the pro-Israel lobby for campaign contributions at elections. People don't always know when they're being brainwashed.
 
mango20022002 said:
I want to say first of all this is my first (ever) post so hi to all of you and lots of hugs!

I am a European and I think Israel is going OTT. I feel that they are extremely iron-fisted in both this and the Palestinian scenario. The underlying doctrine of the IDF seems to be "total-war" in which you basically bomb the hell out of the country you are fighting against, without due regard for civilian casualties. In the US, this doesn't seem to effect support for Israel (57% in latest poll) but in Europe its a PR-disaster. I put part of this down partly to the European past experience of colonial struggle, and the shame and regret of Israeli-style tactics used back then e.g. Algeria, Ireland, except of course in cases of countries like mine (Ireland) where we see Israel's control of the Palestinian territories as paralleling the former British occupation. Also, the NI Peace Process has influenced European public-opinion more towards the view of conflict resolution through dialogue rather than military means - especially where there is a separatist conflict and if historic injustices were involved.

Also harming Israel's case in this matter is the disregard for UN resolutions criticising it. They demand the implementation of Resolution 1559 disarming Hezbollah, while ignoring resolutions demand withdrawl to 1967 borders. They have also alienated Euro-opinion by building settlements in the occupied West Bank, Gaza (Palestine) and Golan (Syrian territory). And while they eventually got out of Gaza, they continued bombing it, undermining the spirit of the exercise and arguably provoking Hamas to capture IDF soldiers. I agree that in one sense, Hezbollah was unprovoked, but the Arab world could have been said to be provoked by the Gaza offensive. I would have more sympathy for Israel if it at least tried a new peace-process with the Palestinians and its Arab neighbours, instead of the broken-record routine of "we don't have a partner on the other side" that has spanned 6 years encompassing Arafat, Abbas and now Hamas.

For me personally, I also reflect on the fact that from the 60's until the late 90's, the Provisional IRA in NI planted bombs incessantly in England and NI, yet the British government did not bomb Dublin or Cork. Yet Israel calls the wholesale destruction of Lebanese infrastructure "self-defence". There is no proportionality to this. I also contrast the 4 weeks President Bush gave to the Taliban to hand over Osama with the hours it took for Israel to attack Lebanon. I think the Afghan campaign showed far more restraint than Israel's campaigns in Palestine and Lebanon. However I also think that one of the reasons why the Iraq campaign has gone sour for the Americans is because of the ill-advised decision - reported in the media - to seek Israeli advice on counter-insurgency. I think experience shows how unwise such advice is. You can kill the terrorist, but you won't kill the terrorism until you address the underlying causes and grievances that give rise to it.

Americans are entitled to their views. But I think that they are being failed by a one-sided message from their leaders' blind support for Israel and by politicians beholden to the pro-Israel lobby for campaign contributions at elections. People don't always know when they're being brainwashed.


Good argument. And welcome.
 
I have a question regarding the defense of Israel... Logisticaly why don't they use patriot missles (or something similair) to defend their territory? It's not a big country and the rockets being fired are somewhat crude... Not as if they're high altitude ballastic missles..

Couldn't you just line up a bunch of launchers along the border.. or on the outskirts of major population centers? There would be some financial cost involved certainly but what is this invasion costing?

Again - I'm not trying to make a point because I don't claim to know a lot about the technology.. So could someone tell me why that would or would not be possible?
 
Winner said:
I am beginning to agree with civ2 - people really hide under their "anti-Zionism" mask to cover their anti-semitism.

Well, I'm not the one grouping all Jews under the same banner and I consider your insinuation offensive.
 
A proof that the "over-reaction" is working:

The Palestinian groups announced a unilateral cease fire, despite heavy Israeli activity in the Gaza Strip and large numbers of Palestinian casualties. The Israeli deterrence is starting to recover.
 
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