Is it time for another revolution?

[Joecoolyo]

Meh, probably cause we finally replaced Bush Jr.

3 years ago...

Maybe the population is in a "comfort zone" which, under the surface isn't very comfortable at all, just not as scary as considering change. People do spend ALOT of time in front of screens, disengaged from their local communities (though to be fair there are websites like meetup.com & craigslist which help mitigate the isolation).

This statement is kinda confusing, since you fused like, two totally different thoughts, and I'm not sure which one to address.

Can we ever have a thread about America without the seemingly obligatory "If you don't like this proud nation move to Somalia! " comment?

Except that's not what I said at all. He seemed to be advocating for a much less stability, more violence, over-throwing the government n'all. If he wants to see the results of something like that, Somalia is perfect.

You aren't the world either. His opinion is as valid as yours. If not more valid.

I know I'm not, I never said I was. I gave him some numbers that proved him wrong, but yet he continued to assert he knew what it was really like. Hence the "you're not the world" comment.

Americans get out less, are less involved in their communities, participate in fewer leagues, clubs & civic organizations than a few decades ago.

Culture changes, don't be so conservative.

Confidence in government, the economy and the nation in general isn't exactly at an all time high if you hadn't noticed.

Confidence in government always drops when there's a recession, then bounces right back when the economy bounces back.

To say that America is fine & dhigh just a biased jerk isn't honest. Even you probably don't truly believe that. People aren't content, they are worried about the future.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147350/optimism-future-youth-reaches-time-low.aspx

Well sure, that's to be expected when the economy is down, they are tough times, I know that. It's just that how dhigh was describing America, as some sort of demonic hell-hole, is an absurd hyperbole that is far from the truth.

EDIT:

DFSayers, the rest of the world loves us, ok? They loooove us! America will never die! God bless America! You know where your anti-patrotic attitude would fit in??

Spoiler :

Somalia, duh!

You're right Narz, it is better to think of everyone else in the world as savage, horrible people who hate everything they see that isn't them, cause that's the truth, right?

 

[_random_]

You say you want a revolution, well you know, we all wanna change the world.

When you want destruction, you can count ol' Manta out.

I made that joke.

 

[MantaRevan]

I made that joke.

Oops. Sorry. I skimmed all the pages to make sure someone didn't already make it, I guess I missed yours.

 

[Narz]

You say you want a revolution, well you know, we all wanna change the world.

When you want destruction, you can count ol' Manta out.

Business as usual, projected into the long term, is one of the most destructive scenarios I can think of.

Except that's not what I said at all. He seemed to be advocating for a much less stability, more violence, over-throwing the government n'all. If he wants to see the results of something like that, Somalia is perfect.

What's the obsession with Somolia. In case you forgot your history the United States is also an example of a nation that was founded by violent overthrow. Most of the nations of the Americas actually.

I know I'm not, I never said I was. I gave him some numbers that proved him wrong, but yet he continued to assert he knew what it was really like. Hence the "you're not the world" comment.

You didn't really "prove" anything by your cherrypicked data. That's like some kid in your class saying, "What do you mean I'm not popular, everyone likes me, I asked all my friends & they said yes!".

Culture changes, don't be so conservative.

Change isn't always a good thing & saying being opposed to change = conservative, is stupid & nonsensical.

Confidence in government always drops when there's a recession, then bounces right back when the economy bounces back.

Right, cause this is just a normal recession & the economy's gonna bounce right back to where we were, like a bright red rubber ball.

Well sure, that's to be expected when the economy is down, they are tough times, I know that. It's just that how dhigh was describing America, as some sort of demonic hell-hole, is an absurd hyperbole that is far from the truth.

I don't think he was describing it as "some sort of demonic hell-hole". He was merely acknowledging that the increasing public apathy & escapism disturbed him. There are a lot of disturbing trends if you're paying attention (not that I'm assuming that). In case you didn't notice there is a mini-revolutionary movement going on all over the country (Occupy).

Maybe these people should all move to Somolia or stop being such conservatives or look at some stats from the "ShutUpAndTakeYourZoloft" foundation telling them they're supposed to be happy.

 

[Traitorfish]

I don't think he was describing it as "some sort of demonic hell-hole". He was merely acknowledging that the increasing public apathy & escapism disturbed him. There are a lot of disturbing trends if you're paying attention (not that I'm assuming that). In case you didn't notice there is a mini-revolutionary movement going on all over the country (Occupy).

I'm not really sure that's accurate. "Revolutionary", in the usual sense, would imply that a direct challenge to state power, which I really don't see in the Occupy movement- nothing coming out of that amounts to much more than a demand for a greater inclusion within the existing state apparatus. Even at their most radical, they're calling for nothing that would have been out of place at the party conference of any post-war social democratic party.

 

[MantaRevan]

No. Conservatism is directly opposed to any sort of social change, good or bad.

And what I was saying is that I would rather keep things how they are, however screwed up(in your opinion) rather than the instability and uncertainty of an anarchical revolution.

 

[Traitorfish]

No. Conservatism is directly opposed to any sort of social change, good or bad.

You're conflating "conservative" with "reactionary". Burke's criticism of the French Revolution were as a conservative Whig, not as a Legitimist, if you get my point.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

No. Conservatism is directly opposed to any sort of social change, good or bad.

In America Conservatives want all kinds of change.

 

[GamezRule]

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Moderator Action: Spam.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

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Look at Ron Paul, Herman Cain, and many others, you don't have to agree that it's good change that they want, but they do want to change the system.

 

[Cutlass]

In America Conservatives want all kinds of change.

And all for the worse. Conservative isn't really a good label for them, is it?

 

[MantaRevan]

In America Conservatives want all kinds of change.

This is what my iPhone dictionary says:

Conservative:

Holding traditional values and attitudes, cautious about change or innovation, typically with politics or religion.

 

[Angst]

America has the world's largest, most intrusive regulatory regime in the world.

Care to explain how America intrudes beyond everyone else in the world? Because I really don't see this statement as holding water if you move outside your American box.

(Jk about the box ofc.)

 

[GamezRule]

Look at Ron Paul, Herman Cain, and many others, you don't have to agree that it's good change that they want, but they do want to change the system.

Reactionary seems like a better term for them. I'm fairly certain the discussion is about classical conservatives. Modern conservatism draws more parallels with classical liberalism.

 

[Traitorfish]

And all for the worse. Conservative isn't really a good label for them, is it?

Never heard of Margaret Thatcher, eh?

 

[Cutlass]

Never heard of Margaret Thatcher, eh?

Sure I have. It's not like it's a new or unique phenomena.

 

[Quackers]

I'm not really sure that's accurate. "Revolutionary", in the usual sense, would imply that a direct challenge to state power, which I really don't see in the Occupy movement- nothing coming out of that amounts to much more than a demand for a greater inclusion within the existing state apparatus. Even at their most radical, they're calling for nothing that would have been out of place at the party conference of any post-war social democratic party.

Thats not strictly true, there is a occupy movement in my city and they had banners with "revolution now!" on it. Although it would be unfair to characterise the whole movement as revolutionaries, I think that most of them do want "greater inclusion within the existing state apparatus" They're the best kind of activists for general statements We're against war, injustice and suffering, well so am I
EDIT: I don't know exactly what your getting at, but Thatcher was a true radical and changed the country and her own party immensely. Surely a true conservative would have continued on with the post-war policies?

 

[Lord of Elves]

Elves, nothing you've said is worthy of response.

I'll accept your resignation.

 

[Narz]

I'm sure you're used to the response.

 

[Lord of Elves]

I'm sure you're used to the response.

Cute, but if you can't respond to the argument effectively, your position has no legs to stand on. If you thought it was unrelated, you wouldn't have quoted it. So I'm forced to conclude you decided that instead of engaging in an actual debate, you'd rather be unnecessarily rude/confrontational.