Is this a case of child neglect?

[cybrxkhan]

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

I'll take a stab at it and guess it's sarcasm?

 

[Old Hippy]

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

that your 'judgement call' is another persons idea of leaving the kids in a car for 24 hours while they gamble.

 

[NovaKart]

I don't think that's a judgement call, that's not caring.

 

[warpus]

I don't think I've ever left my kid in the car in the parking lot but I still don't think for 5-minutes should be a criminal offense unless the kid is in physical danger.

The problem with "5 minutes is okay" in my mind is that you never know how long you're going to be.. Sometimes the lines are a long, sometimes the credit card machine is down and people have to pay with cash, and so on.

5 minutes alone in the car was a good risk to take.

Maybe, maybe not, either way I don't think the mom should be allowed to use the "He didn't want to go!" argument. You're the parent, be in charge.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yet I think we still have an assumption that isn't being backed up. What about sitting in a comfortable safety seat in the back seat of a car is particularly dangerous, other than the stranger danger fear, the rates of which you can look up, or the vastly different situation of leaving the child without temperature management, food, or water for an entire day as Graffito seems to be suggesting is the same thing? Should we be allowed to have our toddlers have some vaguely unsupervised play time in a different room of the house for 2-10 minutes out of sight? Can I work on the dishes while he colors in the next room? Does the front door need to be locked for that to be ok? Or is my judgement call going to leap from washing out the crock pot for supper to a full day bender somehow?

 

[Old Hippy]

I don't think that's a judgement call, that's not caring.

5/10/15 mins, 1 hour, 24 hours, its all just a judgement call...

 

[NovaKart]

I don't think someone who leaves their child in the car for 24 hours is really making a rational decision but 5 minutes might be even if we feel like its risky.

 

[Kaitzilla]

The main thing to remember is, if you are rich, you won't be arrested like this mother was.



Link to video.
http://www.mtv.com/news/1458799/michael-jackson-calls-baby-dangling-incident-a-terrible-mistake/


Link to video.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-01-02-irwin_x.htm

 

[Lillefix]

I don't see any problems whatsoever. What is the danger leaving a five year old five minutes in a car? Unless it's extremely hot obviously. Or perhaps in the middle of Baghdad.

 

[Old Hippy]

I don't think someone who leaves their child in the car for 24 hours is really making a rational decision but 5 minutes might be even if we feel like its risky.

thats because you seem quite sensible, the trouble is most people make stupid decisions on "it seemed like a good idea at the time"
something the OP woman would most likely agree with, after a year dealing with it...

 

[Narz]

Have you tried to hold onto a kicking and screaming child who doesn't want to be there in the first place?

I have a 5 (soon to be 6) year old so yes.

I'm pretty good @ negotiating with her & she knows I respect her so she generally respects me. She often makes a play @ wiggling out of my arms & back into the pond or her friend's backyard, etc. (which means I have to physical carry her out, though she is usually laughing while I'm doing this, along with some amount of whining) but she doesn't usually have hysterical breakdowns which IMO is usually the sign of bad parenting (if it happens often & beyond a certain age).

 

[NovaKart]

thats because you seem quite sensible, the trouble is most people make stupid decisions on "it seemed like a good idea at the time"
something the OP woman would most likely agree with, after a year dealing with it...

Ok were you really saying there's no difference between leaving a child in a car for 5 minutes and 24 hours?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I wonder what heinous crime my mother and grandparents were guilty by allowing me to walk 4 blocks to kindergarten in Denver when I was 5.

 

[peter grimes]

My sister has decided she's going to let her 10 year old daughter take the subway by herself in New York and I don't know if that's something I would do either.

Good for her. I think people are far too hyper about letting kids be independent. Simply put, random kidnappings are incredibly rare. There is a positive side to this paranoia, though. Whenever I see a young kid who appears to be without a guardian of some sort, I find myself falling into the role of silent guardian. I become alert to what's going on around the kid, ready to step in if there's a problem. I can't be the only person who responds this way - which means that every kid who's out in the world in her/his own has a silent army of adults paying attention to them. That's a net positive that might not have happened if we hadn't been taught to be scared of every single stranger. So, bad teaching, but good lesson?

I'm not sure how soon we'll let our daughter ride the subway alone, but 10 sounds fine.

I'm sorry, but when we're talking your own flesh and blood you can never be too careful.... it's looking out for your child. Don't take unnecessary risks no matter how small.

Everything you do involves a risk. There's a huge risk of drowning while bathing a child. Since there's a large risk, are you suggesting that we not bathe children until they know how to swim? But wait! How can we teach them to swim since there's a risk of drowning

In the messy real world, it's all about the balance of risks. In this case, I completely sympathize with the parent's desire to dash into a store and get back without causing a major tantrum. I've done it myself (don't tell the cops!!). I illegally parked infront of a fire hydrant and dashed into the bank's ATM, leaving my daughter asleep in her car seat. Oh my! I'm unfit!! Had I taken her out of the car seat for the 115 second bank transaction, she would have woken up and then wailed with frustration for having been woken up. Definitely not worth it.

And just to head off an obvious criticism, there are no drive-through ATMs at banks in NYC

That's really the point, though, isn't it? An evil man with a panel van and candy makes for a wonderfully vivid nightmare. And it's a good fear to have on some level. But the total glee in a toddler's voice when he or she bolts from you to play "catch me" or "that looks fun over there" or "pet the puppy" when in a parking lot or near traffic is way more dangerous. Like way way more dangerous.

Definitely safer in a locked car, no doubt. Totally agree.

For better or worse, today (at least in the US) just about every state makes it illegal to leave children in a car unattended for any reason whatsoever. Even though usually if you are just popping in for a minute and can see your kid, your kid will probably be fine, this has become one of those things you just can't do. You can thank horrible parents who left their kids to cook in locked cars for this.

Personally, as a parent of a young toddler I understand the desire to just run in and out real quick since taking a toddler in and out of a car seat can sometimes take much longer than whatever 5 minute errand you need to run will take. Sometimes getting in and out of a car seat is a major ordeal. Nonetheless, I would feel uncomfortable leaving my infant or toddler alone in a car unattended for any amount of time (especially if they were out of sight, that would be a deal breaker), and since I know it is illegal that sort of seals the deal for me.

CPS taking her child over this would obviously be an absurdly extreme overreaction.

It's funny - my wife and I have found that we have different tolerances for this sort of risk. On the sidewalk I'm far more cautious with her, but my wife will allow her wide spaces to wander. This really scares me, and it's something we're still working out. However, in the home I'm far more likely to let her explore and play with things that my wife thinks should be off limits. In the basement I let her touch almost anything other than the mower (it's an old mechanical drum-style dealie. Yikes!).

Yet I think we still have an assumption that isn't being backed up. What about sitting in a comfortable safety seat in the back seat of a car is particularly dangerous, other than the stranger danger fear, the rates of which you can look up, or the vastly different situation of leaving the child without temperature management, food, or water for an entire day as Graffito seems to be suggesting is the same thing? Should we be allowed to have our toddlers have some vaguely unsupervised play time in a different room of the house for 2-10 minutes out of sight? Can I work on the dishes while he colors in the next room? Does the front door need to be locked for that to be ok? Or is my judgement call going to leap from washing out the crock pot for supper to a full day bender somehow?

Perfectly stated. That's really the question, right? Am I a bad parent if I go down to the basement to switch the laundry, leaving the kid unsupervised with her books and blocks?

 

[Old Hippy]

Ok were you really saying there's no difference between leaving a child in a car for 5 minutes and 24 hours?

yes, from just today, (cute baby pictures included)

https://gma.yahoo.com/infant-stolen-car-found-bushes-still-snuggled-car-172120785--abc-news-topstories.html

while at the gas station...

 

[NovaKart]

Good for her. I think people are far too hyper about letting kids be independent. Simply put, random kidnappings are incredibly rare. There is a positive side to this paranoia, though. Whenever I see a young kid who appears to be without a guardian of some sort, I find myself falling into the role of silent guardian. I become alert to what's going on around the kid, ready to step in if there's a problem. I can't be the only person who responds this way - which means that every kid who's out in the world in her/his own has a silent army of adults paying attention to them. That's a net positive that might not have happened if we hadn't been taught to be scared of every single stranger. So, bad teaching, but good lesson?

I'm not sure how soon we'll let our daughter ride the subway alone, but 10 sounds fine.

Yeah I think it's ok too but my first reaction was to think , "hmmmm, not sure if that's a good idea'". It brings up all the paranoia your average person from middle America has about NYC, you're going to let her ride the subway alone with all those kooks and weirdos?

yes, from just today, (cute baby pictures included)

https://gma.yahoo.com/infant-stolen-car-found-bushes-still-snuggled-car-172120785--abc-news-topstories.html

while at the gas station...

That's quite unlikely to happen in 5 minutes. In 24 hours anything could happen.

 

[Borachio]

Including the distress simply from being left alone for 24 hours.

Even I don't like to be left alone for that length of time. Especially not in a parked car.

 

[Old Hippy]

Yeah I think it's ok too but my first reaction was to think , "hmmmm, not sure if that's a good idea'". It brings up all the paranoia your average person from middle America has about NYC, you're going to let her ride the subway alone with all those kooks and weirdos?



That's quite unlikely to happen in 5 minutes. In 24 hours anything could happen.

quite unlikely, but common enough, here is another one

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Child-taken-in-car-theft-in-SE-Houston-found-safe-5426788.php
or one where the mother was charged
http://www.wyff4.com/news/gcso-stolen-suv-recovered-3yearold-still-missing/26014072#!2LkGA
there the best judgement call actually comes from the car theif, droping the child off before being involved in a police pursuit

so just a momentary lapse of judgement not locking the car...
no different to going to the casino and forgetting your kids are in the car, a momentary lapse of judgement I dare say... all those flashing lights, soothing sounds, and lack of clocks, designed to make you forget about how long your there

'just one more turn'

 

[peter grimes]

Yeah I think it's ok too but my first reaction was to think , "hmmmm, not sure if that's a good idea'". It brings up all the paranoia your average person from middle America has about NYC, you're going to let her ride the subway alone with all those kooks and weirdos?

The cool thing about urban areas is that the kooks and weirdos are in plain sight (sometimes too plain!). When there's an oddball on the train everyone is aware, and we're not likely to let him (it's usually a him ) get away with anything.

I think NYC earned a really bad reputation in the 1980's (summoning Formaldehyde ), and it's taken a long time to shed that dark past. Truth is, the people who live here now have a vested interest in making this city a super-nice place to raise a family. And it really is a great place for a family - whether you're just visiting or if you're planning on living here long term.

Of course there are problems, but there are problems everywhere.

Kidnappings are no more common here than anywhere else in the USA - meaning it's exceptionally rare. There's really no rational reason to think that letting your kid ride the subway alone will result in a kidnapping. Much more likely that the kid will make a slight mistake about which station exit to use, and be confused about where they are on the street level. And that's when they need to ask someone. Simple.

Well, simple for me to say since I've got a few years before I have to let my little girl have a long tether like that

 

[Akka]

I don't see what's so "insane" about responsibly looking after your child.

What's insane is building your idea of "responsibly looking after a child" around the concept of some random guy stalking you and jumping to kidnap him ?