Is this a case of child neglect?

[salty mud]

What's insane is letting media fueled paranoia drive you to fearing very low probability events. And then using that irrational fear as justification for punishing others who are less paranoid than yourself.

I'm sorry, but when we're talking your own flesh and blood you can never be too careful. I have a five year old in my family and I wouldn't want to leave him alone in a car surrounded by people. Besides, no one has yet said why the child couldn't go with the parent. It's not "media fuelled paranoia", it's looking out for your child. Don't take unnecessary risks no matter how small.

 

[Narz]

Its easy to say as a non-parent. Parenting is a lot of work & kids can be stubborn. If your five year old manages to strangle himself with the seatbelt in a locked car during the 5-minutes you're taking a piss in the 7/11 he probably isn't cut out for this world.

 

[Old Hippy]

What's insane is letting media fueled paranoia drive you to fearing very low probability events. And then using that irrational fear as justification for punishing others who are less paranoid than yourself.

it's a crime here...

it was made illegal when mothers started leaving kids in the car while they started going into the Casino or the pokies and having a quick bet, mind you they were in there a lot longer than 5 minuets and we do get 100 degree heat,
so I think in cases like that even leaving a dog in the car is a crime.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I was 8 years old before my mother would let me cross the street unsupervised. Keep in mind that we still lived on an acreage in the county, where there were only 2 neighbors and no streets to worry about. I remember feeling a bit weird that day, as she allowed me to not only cross the street, but also go into the restaurant where we were going to have lunch, and get a table.

 

[Borachio]

By the time I was five, in summer I was out of the house and away from any parental supervision for most of the day, either with my brother and sister or some other local children. It was a very rural setting, though.

By the time I was 9 or 10, I used to bicycle distances of up to 15 miles, on my own or with another person about the same age.

What am I talking about? I can't remember where I left my car keys these days. Never mind what I did 50 years ago.

I suppose that sort of behaviour sounds unsafe these days. But I never went anywhere without my trusty AK 47. And I never, as far as I recall, shot more than 20 or 30 people on each outing.

Ah. Happy days! Those Blue Remembered Hills!

 

[Narz]

I was 8 years old before my mother would let me cross the street unsupervised. Keep in mind that we still lived on an acreage in the county, where there were only 2 neighbors and no streets to worry about. I remember feeling a bit weird that day, as she allowed me to not only cross the street, but also go into the restaurant where we were going to have lunch, and get a table.

That's pretty extreme. I was biking around on my own within 20 blocks or so from home by that age (in a fairly quiet suburban neighborhood).

 

[Farm Boy]

... it's looking out for your child. Don't take unnecessary risks no matter how small.

That's really the point, though, isn't it? An evil man with a panel van and candy makes for a wonderfully vivid nightmare. And it's a good fear to have on some level. But the total glee in a toddler's voice when he or she bolts from you to play "catch me" or "that looks fun over there" or "pet the puppy" when in a parking lot or near traffic is way more dangerous. Like way way more dangerous.

 

[warpus]

Besides, no one has yet said why the child couldn't go with the parent.

It's in the article... The child "didn't want to go". That's the mom's excuse as to why she "had to" leave him in the car.

 

[Old Hippy]

By the time I was five, in summer I was out of the house and away from any parental supervision for most of the day, either with my brother and sister or some other local children. It was a very rural setting, though.

By the time I was 9 or 10, I used to bicycle distances of up to 15 miles, on my own or with another person about the same age.

What am I talking about? I can't remember where I left my car keys these days. Never mind what I did 50 years ago.

ahh, the good old days, we were just a more responsible generation on the whole, I think

 

[Narz]

It's in the article... The child "didn't want to go". That's the mom's excuse as to why she "had to" leave him in the car.

I agree, that's a poor excuse. As a parent you have to be willing to pick up & carry the kid if necessary or ideally, win the kid over with silliness or appeals to maturity (my usual method though occasionally I will have to literally carry her away from a place though I try to make sure she's laughing rather than whining or crying as I carry her).

I don't think I've ever left my kid in the car in the parking lot but I still don't think for 5-minutes should be a criminal offense unless the kid is in physical danger.

 

[Kaitzilla]

It's in the article... The child "didn't want to go". That's the mom's excuse as to why she "had to" leave him in the car.

A screaming tantrum was very likely and the 2 hour timer to make a plane flight was ticking.
Kid was too busy playing a game on the Ipad to do something stupid.
5 minutes alone in the car was a good risk to take.


If a criminal had even touched the car, the alarm would have gone off.
Let alone smashed out the window and attempted to hotwire the thing with a shrieking kid and car alarm going off.

It's fine, unless the windows are rolled up & the kid is at risk of cooking.

If she left her kid for 10+ minutes I might have a problem with it.

I also remember being left alone alot.

Kids nowadays are treated like little retards who will set themselves on fire if not supervised every second.

Article somewhat on topic about shifting attitudes towards childhood autonomy : http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2...your-children-are-is-that-always-a-good-thing

I didn't know it had gotten so bad.

But it's not now. Look at what's been happening all over the developed world. The Thomas family has been living in Sheffield, a town toward the north of England, for at least four generations. When great-grandpa George Thomas turned 8 in 1919, he was allowed to walk six miles — by himself — to go fishing. But each generation after has been given less and less room to roam.

In 1950, when Jack, the grandfather, turned 8, he was allowed to go just a mile on his own to visit the woods.

In 1979, when Vicky, the mom, turned 8, she was allowed to ride her bike around the immediate neighborhood, walk by herself to school, and could visit a swimming pool on her own. Her zone of play was a half-mile wide.

And then we have the current generation, Ed.

His freedom to roam is drastically different from his great-granddad's. In an interview with the Daily Mail in 2007, Vicky said her son, then 8, was "driven the few minutes to school, is taken by car to a safe place to ride his bike and can roam no more than 300 yards from home." Basically, he stays on the block.

In fact, she says, he prefers the family yard to the street outside. "He doesn't tend to go out because the other children don't," she said.

So now we complain that they weigh 200 pounds, have asthma/allergies because they never got dirty in their life, and are emotionally stunted cripples, but at least they are safe.

 

[illram]

For better or worse, today (at least in the US) just about every state makes it illegal to leave children in a car unattended for any reason whatsoever. Even though usually if you are just popping in for a minute and can see your kid, your kid will probably be fine, this has become one of those things you just can't do. You can thank horrible parents who left their kids to cook in locked cars for this.

Personally, as a parent of a young toddler I understand the desire to just run in and out real quick since taking a toddler in and out of a car seat can sometimes take much longer than whatever 5 minute errand you need to run will take. Sometimes getting in and out of a car seat is a major ordeal. Nonetheless, I would feel uncomfortable leaving my infant or toddler alone in a car unattended for any amount of time (especially if they were out of sight, that would be a deal breaker), and since I know it is illegal that sort of seals the deal for me.

CPS taking her child over this would obviously be an absurdly extreme overreaction.

 

[NovaKart]

I think a parent always have to make judgement calls over various thing and sometimes they don't make good ones. I think in minor instances like this it's extreme for the police to get involved.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

That's pretty extreme. I was biking around on my own within 20 blocks or so from home by that age (in a fairly quiet suburban neighborhood).

On the flip side, I had more freedom on the acreage than many present-day kids have in the city. As long as I stayed away from any open water, didn't go beyond the tree line, or down to the highway (unless catching the school bus), I could play outside or visit the neighboring acreage whenever I wanted - without my mother tagging along.

This changed the following year, though, after my parents' divorce and I moved into the city with my dad. I was expected to walk to and from school (15-minute walk 4 times a day) and he bought me a bike. After I learned to ride, I'd spend a lot of time riding around the subdivision after school and on weekends.

 

[Farm Boy]

For better or worse, today (at least in the US) just about every state makes it illegal to leave children in a car unattended for any reason whatsoever. Even though usually if you are just popping in for a minute and can see your kid, your kid will probably be fine, this has become one of those things you just can't do. You can thank horrible parents who left their kids to cook in locked cars for this.

Personally, as a parent of a young toddler I understand the desire to just run in and out real quick since taking a toddler in and out of a car seat can sometimes take much longer than whatever 5 minute errand you need to run will take. Sometimes getting in and out of a car seat is a major ordeal. Nonetheless, I would feel uncomfortable leaving my infant or toddler alone in a car unattended for any amount of time (especially if they were out of sight, that would be a deal breaker), and since I know it is illegal that sort of seals the deal for me.

CPS taking her child over this would obviously be an absurdly extreme overreaction.

This whole issue is just so window-licking stupid. In the past two years while going out and about I would stop at gas stations for cigarette breaks if the trip was long enough. I'm certainly not willing to smoke in a car my kid rides in. On two occasions I've had to walk from the ashtray 10-30 feet away from my parked and running car to shoo potential "well-meaning" people away from my child.

 

[illram]

This whole issue is just so window-licking stupid. In the past two years while going out and about I would stop at gas stations for cigarette breaks if the trip was long enough. I'm certainly not willing to smoke in a car my kid rides in. On two occasions I've had to walk from the ashtray 10-30 feet away from my parked and running car to shoo potential "well-meaning" people away from my child.

Yeah that's annoying. I no longer smoke but I imagine I would do the same. I leave my daughter in her car seat to throw things out in trash cans in parking lots, or put carts back in nearby cart-stations, things like that. I usually leave the door open a crack to signal helicopter hyper vigilant parent-drones that Daddy Lion is near and will strike.

 

[classical_hero]

I agree, that's a poor excuse. As a parent you have to be willing to pick up & carry the kid if necessary or ideally, win the kid over with silliness or appeals to maturity (my usual method though occasionally I will have to literally carry her away from a place though I try to make sure she's laughing rather than whining or crying as I carry her).

I don't think I've ever left my kid in the car in the parking lot but I still don't think for 5-minutes should be a criminal offense unless the kid is in physical danger.

Have you tried to hold onto a kicking and screaming child who doesn't want to be there in the first place? I just think we are too precious in this society and that is harming us more than the consequences of leaving a child in the car. Any chance the child could suffer then fine, but it looks like the child wasn't in any danger. I am pretty sure that I have been left in the car when i was a young child.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I wouldn't do it myself, but I don't think leaving a child out for five minutes is terrible. I can think of plenty of instances when I was younger and my parents would quickly run inside a store or a friend's house or some other place to grab something and then go back out, though I don't recall any instances when I was five or around that age.

Whoever took the video of that child, I'd say, is in the wrong even more. It's fine if they are suspicious, but taking a video is a bit too much. It's also creepy and an invasion of privacy. It's sort of like those instances I've heard where someone (tends to be middle-aged, middle class white women for some reason) try to take a child away from a suspicious person who's actually just a parent/sibling/caretaker/family friend/etc. just because they "feel" suspicious and wants to "protect" the child - that someone might sometimes even be praised, but in fact what they're doing amounts to some kind of kidnapping. I feel this situation is similar.

While I suppose it varies from place to place, some areas do have a lot of helicopter parent paranoia. My parents were helicopter parents in some respects (though they were laid-back in others), and I don't think it worked out well for me as much as they would've hoped for.

 

[Old Hippy]

I think a parent always have to make judgement calls over various thing and sometimes they don't make good ones. I think in minor instances like this it's extreme for the police to get involved.

that is a job for judges, not parents, just what is the difference from getting out of the car to get your kid from the other side (1 min) to leaving them outside the Casino for 24 hours.
parking in the gas station, outside the shop, around the corner on the 3rd floor of the mall carpark, just judgement calls

Common sense, no such thing

 

[NovaKart]

I don't really understand what you're saying here.