Is Turkey planning to attack Greece?

[Greek Stud]

UPDATE:

China and Greece sign joint statement on all-round strategic partnership on January 19, 2006.

http://english.people.com.cn/200601/20/eng20060120_236819.html

http://english.people.com.cn/200601/20/eng20060120_236828.html

China and Greece issue a statement on an all-round early and fair agreement on the Cyprus Issue.

http://english.people.com.cn/200601/20/eng20060120_236829.html

And Greece will continue to pursue lifting the EU's arm embargo on China, which was almost lifted before the US intervened and asked the EU to reverse its plans to end the embargo.

http://english.people.com.cn/200601/20/eng20060120_236856.html

 

[Azkonus]

UPDATE:

Lastly, Cyprus and Russia plan to speak about the development of the Russians' new military for 2006-2014. Military technology will focus on new features and abilities. The military serves with ties with China. Cyprus in particular will participate in the creation of a fighter jet that can land on water and re-emerge into the air without the support of aircraft carriers.

Lol!

You should change the title as 'Is Greece planning to attack Turkey?'

 

[The Yankee]

Cyprus in particular will participate in the creation of a fighter jet that can land on water and re-emerge into the air without the support of aircraft carriers.

Cyprus is helping the development of this aircraft? Is there going to be some kind of arms race going on here?

 

[bhsup]

Cyprus in particular will participate in the creation of a fighter jet that can land on water and re-emerge into the air without the support of aircraft carriers.

Two words: Sea Dart.

They should see if whoever bought Convair is willing to sell them any old prototypes laying about, or maybe plans and test data.

The large single-ski and oleo configuration finally derived for the XF2Y-1 aircraft was a very sound and satisfactory design for use on a delta wing, water-based, supersonic aircraft. The Seadart test program also proved the feasibility of designing and developing supersonic water-based aircraft for support of Navy Fleet Operations. Because of the lack of an approved operational requirement and the lack of funds for such an aircraft, the U.S. Navy did not continue Seadart development.

 

[Greek Stud]

I would assume then that the major difference is that the Sea Dart used skies, while the Russian-Cypriot jet plane uses a soft belly cushion. It was pointed out that the jet plane can also attack by sea and by air, or that this would be the objective.

Azkonus

Lol!

You should change the title as 'Is Greece planning to attack Turkey?'

The Yankee

Cyprus is helping the development of this aircraft? Is there going to be some kind of arms race going on here?

There are two arms races. Greece & Cyprus v. Turkey and the other is the West v. the East whereby the West today is largely NATO against Russia and China.

 

[Japanrocks12]

I would assume then that the major difference is that the Sea Dart used skies, while the Russian-Cypriot jet plane uses a soft belly cushion. It was pointed out that the jet plane can also attack by sea and by air, or that this would be the objective.







There are two arms races. Greece & Cyprus v. Turkey and the other is the West v. the East whereby the West today is largely NATO against Russia and China.

The West against the economically crippled Russia? I think the race is more between Western countries and China.

 

[Greek Stud]

It is my understanding that both the Russian and Turkish markets are expected to grow at incredible rates in the forth coming years. Even more than they have in 2004 & 2005.

And also, European nations are becoming increasingly dependent on Russian oil and natural gas. The Ukraine stand-off showed this. And the fact that Germany, Greece and Turkey are all competing to become energy hubs of the Russian energy company Gazprom only supports financial analysists theories about the growth of Turkish, Russian and Chinese economies.

 

[Kyriakos]

The plan is to diminish the amount of arms and to increase their quality, at least it should be that. I do not see any reason why Greece and Turkey have to go on an arm's race. There would be no clear objective in a war, apart from the issue of the sea borbers, which would have to do with the possible existence of oil in the Aegian.
However there clearly is no chance of having a conquest war. What would Greece do? Conquer Constantinople/Istambul and displace 10 million turks? Not very realistic.
The real problem is Turkey's militaristic elite, which is a product of the legacy of the secular kemalistic state (post 1920). I think that the only thing that can be done is a mutual partial dissarmament, which atm is not very close to happening due to Turkey's not entirely assured future as a united country (20 million kurds in eastern Turkey).
I also do not see Turkey ever joining the EU as it is now; it would have been far more possible if it was just the western part (european Turkey and western asia minor).
Greece would have been far better off if it got at least one nuclear weapon. This would end any costly 'fear' of war with Turkey.
That said in the case of a war there would be so many aircraft bombings in both sides that the result wouldnt be so different from a nuclear attack :shakehead

 

[Greek Stud]

Its true varwnos, its a sad situation. But the nations who are building arms pretty much thrive on countries that are in this position.

North and South Korea

Taiwan (Formosa) and China

Greece/Cyprus and Turkey

Pakistan and India

Iran/Syria and Israel

PRCongo and DRCongo

Ethiopia and Eritrea

The confrontation between Greece and Turkey is very dependent on the fact that so many strategic areas lie between the two countries.

The Aegean Sea
America/Britain have alluded to allowing Turkey to making claims to the Eastern Aegean so that Turkish and American ships can go through the Bosporus only using Turkish waters.

Northern Cyprus
In return for a Turkish military presence in the north, Britain can remain a guaranteed power and keep a military base on the island. Turkey believes Greeks will use the island to attack Turkey and Greece believes that the Turks use this excuse to take more land, which by the way is also a very rewarding land by its strategic location in the Mediterranean and also because you can endlessly use its soil to grow any crop with little to no care about tending your crops. Agriculture on the island is basically the most rewarding and renewable soil as compared to many other competitors.

Eastern Thrace and Istanbul
The Greeks have made it clear that any conquest of this area would not be possible. Not only because of the defeats in WW1 at Gallapoli with Australian and New Zealander troops, but also because, as you point out, the change in demographics. The Turkish government has successfully comfiscated Greek Orthodox Church property and has made it almost im possible for a Greek property owner to pass their inheritence to relatives that are not Turkish born citizens.

Asia Minor
Turks and Greeks are in no doubt most friendly towards each other in this area. The two communities are intertwined here. The threat is in the fact that the Greeks have kept their word not to arm the islands of Chios, Icarus, Samos, Rhodes or the Dodecanese Islands; whereas the Turks had America renew the ports for the use in Iraq which was later denied passage for the War on Iraq, and the Army General Staff have now concentrated on moving and building up a military prescence in this region.

I do not believe that nuclear weapons would cause the Turks to fear the Greeks, nor do I believe that in this conflict that a nuclear standoff would cause either side to back off. We are two peoples that are both very stubborn.

 

[AlpArslanTR]

The Turkish Army already had a plan.Dont worry . For example before operation cyprus, about 300-400 tanks enter thrace. I remember that one of greek general said that "The Turkish Army can occupy Atina in 3 days" It is nearly true. Maybe it is true or false. But Turkey does't think an operation. But Turkey is seeing Greek plans. If we look in strategy google to operation Cyprus, if turkey didn't do anything, cyprus would be a greek land so if greece attack us we will make a south defence. At this time greece plans are going on. They are buying missile system, aircrafts and navy. Last year the most weapon exporter was greece. But turkey dont watch them. We have F-16 fleets at everywhere. But greece dont have any land facilities. For example turkey has artillery which has 40 km range (longest in world) This means that Turkey can bombarding 1/4 of island of greece at their standing position. Ou navy too. . Anatolia is the best for guerilla tactics. It means that if greece enter Izmir (smyrna) at start to move to Ankara or somewhere the tactic will start. Because Turkey has mountains and hills a lot. Every mountain and hills mean that every defence points. (Like 1920-1922)
If Turkish army will go at Thrace we can go there quickly because there are many turks (more than north Iraq) living here. They might support the army. I remember something We recapture most of land, which greece occupied about 4 mouth, at 14 days without tracks or cars, with horse and oxcart. Now at this time we use modern tanks and modern F-16 fleets. I remember something again. Greece dont have any real victory. They took all of lands with diplomacy. Actually in 1920-1922 we didnt fight against greeks we fought against England. Greeks were pawn. In Ottoman's time we lived together. Ou there is still greeks in Izmir. For example my uncle's wife. In Izmır when Greece occupy, Izmir's greeks saved turks, when Turkish Army recaptured, turks saved greeks. And we dont forget your slaughter at anatolia. If you dont trust me at their slaughter look at this film. http://rapidshare.de/files/10563025/KurtulusSavasi.rar.html (this is turkish but you can see )

Dont think Turkey is easy. If greece think that turkey is an easy enemy they can try to eat 600.000 soldiers but if forget other civilian soldiers, like 1920-1922,....

(I might make mistakes my English is not very well )

 

[Jim90]

i hope turkey attacks greece, that would be in our interests (usa). then we support turkey who in turn will have to support us in iraq, and we both benefit from it.

 

[Greek Stud]

Jim,
you dont have much experience with diplomatic relations with Turkey. If Turkey takes Greece, Turkey will not help America anywhere. Turkey does as it pleases for the good of Turkey, no one else. The only thing Turkey would do in Iraq is to make claims to land, and take it for themselves.

AlpArslan,
the Greeks invaded Anatolia and had a standing army. We also won military victories up to Philadelphia. The coalition force was in Constantinople, while the Bulgarians were in Adrianople. Greek forces were also stationed in Bursa. When the Royalist Party took power, they told the Greek military to leave Thrace and Asia Minor. The Royalist Party garrisoned its own force against the plan of France, Britain and Italy. Italy laid down troops in Attalea. And the Royalist Party ignored the West and asked his garrison force to invade Ancyra. When the West stopped supplying the Royalists and began supplying the Turks, thats when you beat the Greeks on the way to Ancyra. There was no force that fought the Turks in Smyrna, Bursa, Constantinople or Adrianople because the Royalists had the Greek military leave to Athens, and the Allied forces in Constantinople, Adrianople and off the coast of Smyrna did not fight back. The only victory for the Turks were the Massacres at Pergamon, Phocaea, Smyrna, Sinope and Constantinople. Your pride is a military defeat against a civilian population. Turkish citizens of the Protectorates of Thrace and Smyrna were to change citizenship to the Hellenic Republic. Many of these Turks saved ethnic Greeks from the Massacres of the Kemalist Armies.

Today is much different than WW1 and WW2. Tanks are not useful on Greek territory as we see when the Germans took so long to capture Greece in WW2. Just like how you describe Turkey, Greece is a mountainous region. And when you say the word Anatolia, your are saying the Greek word for: the East land or Eastern Greece.

Just as you describe the plans of the Turks being prepared to capture Greece, Greece is very well prepared to defend itself. That is why nations issue a report to their military as to what is the biggest threat to their nation. To use artillery against the islands of Greece does not accomplish much as we are not armed on the islands. But we are armed on Crete and Mainland Greece. We also have bought technology that has a long reach into Turkish land.

And to threaten us with a force of 600,000 soldiers only means we need 600,000 bullets. Greeks have always faced forces that dwarf the size of our land forces. Don't get me wrong, I do respect that Turkey too has many victories under its belt and is very capable. But dont be over confident just as Nazi Germany was. It was because of Greece that Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy lost the War.

A full out war between Greece and Turkey would not be a pretty sight. Just like Japan and China, no one would be spared.

 

[Kyriakos]

AlpArslan: your first post in the CFC, and it had to be a trolling post, right?


@GS: really this thread is going nowhere. There is no probability of a war.

 

[AlpArslanTR]

My second post

Do you know that after the starting of counter attack there was two battle. In Izmır when calavries came, greek soldiers tried to swin to ships.

West never stop supporting greece. Because of it http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7169/551sw.jpg because Greece have a strategic position at seas.But Turkey have a strategic position at lands. Because of it America support you and us. When we are in war, there will be only one winner. WeaponSellers like America. And English %100 support you. But Russia support us again like 1920. When the independence war was going on, only Russia support us. We defeat France and England at south, Armenian forces at east than all forces came sakarya. Italy only didnt enter war agaisnt us. Because greece took Italy's lands so they gave their lands to us (without 12 islands ) England organized greeks, armenians, kurdishs against Ottoman. Because if there is a strong ottoman or turkey or another country at Anatolia was dangerous for england sea ways. But today, a strong turkey was dangerous for Israel for big middle east plans. So all of countries (like America) try divine us.
East for Armenians
South for Kurdishs
West for Greeks
North for Pontus
By this way turkey always have a artificial journals. Our moron politicians cant say anything like propagands and plans. For example Armenian issues. They said that we killed 1 million armenian. But do you know that this information come from an english propagand books for wwI. The real is armenians supported russians so ttoman empire took them and tried to carry south. But like sarıkamısh (I dont know in engish) where our army died beacuse of snow and politicians, Armenians carried at winter. This was a disaster of politicians. But EU and USA are blind. Because there was genocide at east. For example armenian gangs collected Turks at nearest villages. They gamble for pregnant womans. Boy or girl?! They opened the stomach and take the baby from mother's stomach. Another they put all of muslim citizens to a mosque and fire them like Bursa and Afyon.Anyway our topic is not

Ou you said that islands are armless. This is big lie. We can see your misille systems or naval forces. If there will be a war it would be beacuse of misille systems at islands and cyprus or if there would be any bad activites to turks at northern greece (they are not in bad situation i said if) the war will be coming but not with politicians with our generals.

There will be no war. I promise for 4 years (after 4 years our politicians will change and if they will be against eu and quit from eu the war voices will come)

 

[The_Harbinger]

Originally Posted by Greek Stud
am I being paranoid abserving this as a Greek-American?

No, you are not paranoic. Those who believe you are are grossly underestimating the Balkans.
“If there is ever another war in Europe, it will come out of some damned silly thing in the Balkans” Otto von Bismarck.
Unfortunately those words are still valid.
In fact there's not much the EU can do in case of a Turkish invasion of Greece (the EU is not a military alliance), especially if the US turns a blind
eye to it.

 

[Kyriakos]

According to the Lausannes treaty they are not turks; had they been turks they would have been exchanged in 1922.
But that doesnt matter much; what is more important is that this joke of a war threat has become too boring. You should realise that this isnt the age of horse archers; a war would mean destruction on a massive scale everywhere. You do not have any super weapons which would disable flocks of airplanes from bombing your major cities, and neither does Greece. So better stop thinking about war

 

[AlpArslanTR]

USA has but.... We are seeing their crashing at Iraq. You cannot solve a war by superweapons like vietnam, 1920-1922 wars(oxcart vs tracks), stalingrad etc. And nuclear weapons are making easy and cheap. Turkey have uranium reserve, greece have allies so 2 of them might have a nuclear weapon. Ou this age is not horse archers age but 1920 too?!?! or 1974 too?!?! Pardon i know that turkey is second in number at F-16(upgarded jets not same technology before 10 years ago) .The First is America than Turkey. If you think that turkey only watch bombarding, what can i say you? Turkey has modest anti-air systems. They are making by turkish technology so in war every cities will have this systems. Because it can shot on a car. Ou can you bombarding Mardin or Diyarbakir? You should remember that turkey bigger than greece and more people than greece. It means that you must to win 3-5battle in anatolia but turkey must win 2 battle in greece.

If we will make a war, in naval wars Greece, in land wars Turkey will win. So who win the air fight, will win the battle. But you have an advantage. Your diplomatic actions are very good so if you win at all of battle nobody wont say anything, but if turkey will win everybody will say "turks are barbarian, occpy greeks bla bla bla..."

And dont worry if there would be any battle like Cyprus America will say "enough you cannot use my weapon anymore" to greece and turkey. So the battle will finish when it start. Anyway Turkish people dont think any war between greece because we think about a war between America. The last target is Turkey for big middle-east project of jewishs.

 

[jeriko one]

There was no force that fought the Turks in Smyrna, Bursa, Constantinople or Adrianople because the Royalists had the Greek military leave to Athens, and the Allied forces in Constantinople, Adrianople and off the coast of Smyrna did not fight back.

You are quite right about that. Because after the first onslaught of the Turkisk armies some Greek Divisions lost their way and there was much confusion. If that had not happened the march of the armies would not be that fast. After the confusion Greek armies started to retreat. They retreated in 3 parts and left Anatolia. (Dikili, Cesme and Bandirma were the cities which they retreated) In turkish history books it is written that the Greeks were driven to the sea in Izmir. I think if look at the facts above I think it was only the garrison and Greek immigrants who were dirven to the sea in Izmir. I do not know. Both sides tell their part of the story its hard to be objective by just looking at your pr our stories. BTW, I read the retreat from an English book.