Is what I do and am wrong?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Combat is not a highlight on CNN. It's life-style, stop accepting jobs you cannot perform.

I'd ask this guy what he thinks of it.

 

[Angst]

Assuming an ideal world:
Not necessarily. Sometimes it is necessary to have people like you risk their lives and their sanity to protect others so that not everyone has to bear through what you have endured.

The issue is, what about when you're not in the ideal world? What if you are twisted and manipulated by your superiors and politicians to perform deeds that do nothing to aid anyone, especially Americans? What if your missions are immoral? Then you become a tool of evil, doing all sorts of evil deeds, without even knowing it. (Consequently the reason why I'm not joining any armies anytime soon)

This. Please do, however, note that your participation is in the belief of serving and protecting your government; what you do is honorable nonetheless since in the end, even though American missions are aggressive, military is necessary in order to protect its nation. You sacrifice yourself for others, and that is does not make you a wrong person. I do not know the nature of war myself; but I can still respect you for your actions.

It may make you unhuman because of the nature of your work, but you deserve no less praise because of that. You undertake tasks that are necessary, and sacrifice your humanity so that the rest of us don't have to.

... as being said here.

The flipside is that your enemy believes the same. They are protecting their own freedom and their own way of life, and in many ways believe that what they are doing is right likewise; maybe in different ways, but with the same conviction and the same belief in rightness.

And this might be one of the reasons why you feel bad about the whole thing - but always remember that you should not blame yourself for what your enemy believe, even though good and evil is subjective; you are present to preserve your people, not the people of your enemy. You are doing what you are told to do by your officers, same goes for them; both sides with their own interests. I understand it hurts you.

But yea, see a psychiatrist. You deserve it, and need it. At least just to straighten things up and have someone with the proper knowledge about your feelings to share it with.

 

[Riffraff]

From that OP you sure as hell shouldn't be a soldier. Go see a psychiatrist.

 

[BC1871]

It's never murder, when you are defending yourself or your nation.

 

[Japanrocks12]

It's never murder, when you are defending yourself or your nation.

It is still killing. If you have never even stopped to reflect on the gravity of your power to take away lives; if you've never even given this one thought, then you should not be a soldier.

 

[Defiant47]

Only one of the most racist things I have ever heard. And thankyou for making me lose any faith in America I still had. Actually, this is not only murder, this is genocide. The deliberate murder of a particular racial group. It is absolutely despicable.

Ashes of the Wake - Lamb of God

Spoiler :

"We killed a lot of innocent civilians.
To us every civilian in Baghdad was a terrorist.
They said 'they are now in civilian clothes' that makes everybody free game,
But if they came in our perimeter, we lit 'em up.
And when we would pull the body out, and when we would search the car, we would find nothing.
This took place time and time again. No harm, no foul, that's OK, don't worry about it,
Because this is a new type of war, this is an eradication."

"I honestly feel we're committing genocide over here,
I don't believe in killing civilians, and I'm not going to kill civilians for the United States Marine Corp."

[Quoted as a Marine in Song]

 

[Neomega]

Killing people with American weapons and technology is easy. Killing people with underground manufactured roadside bombs is hard.

I guess what sucks is American war is like deer hunting. American soldiers have very few chances to do anything heroic. They just zip around in armored cars or helicopters with night vision and fight poorly equipped and poorly trained kids with Ak's and RPGS. If the fight gets hard, they call in air support. Its just a bunch of mercenaries like yourself killing people determined not to let their country be ruled by a foreign power.

Then when you all come home, you ask us to treat you like heros. Whatever.

My only hope for you is you understand later in life what must be done to redeem yourself.

 

[LucyDuke]

Considering the general left side spin of the audience here...there is absolutely no way that solicting any advice here would be of benefit to you.

People who think war is bad can't offer perspective? Can't validate his concerns?

It says a lot about the psychological support the military offers that he's even expressing these doubts here to begin with.

If the evil lefties aren't going to help, why isn't the military helping to start with? Chaz can't be the only soldier thinking this way.

And please, spare me the "oh we do plenty". Fine, you do plenty, but obviously not enough to get to Chaz before he goes asking the internet with its horrible lefties.

It's quite human. Too bad reality doesn't live up to ideals.

Since when is "human" a get out of jail free card for "wrong"?

Killing people with American weapons and technology is easy. Killing people with underground manufactured roadside bombs is hard.

I guess what sucks is American war is like deer hunting. American soldiers have very few chances to do anything heroic. They just zip around in armored cars or helicopters with night vision and fight poorly equipped and poorly trained kids with Ak's and RPGS. If the fight gets hard, they call in air support. Its just a bunch of mercenaries like yourself killing people determined not to let their country be ruled by a foreign power.

Then when you all come home, you ask us to treat you like heros. Whatever.

My only hope for you is you understand later in life what must be done to redeem yourself.

Wow. You know exactly what war is like. Thank god you're here to crap on the poor guy who's questioning what he has to do.

 

[Neomega]

Wow. You know exactly what war is like. Thank god you're here to crap on the poor guy who's questioning what he has to do.

Did you think I would hand him cookies? Perhaps tell him to see a shrink that would give him pills and tell him the memories will go away when he finds his happy place?

And, umm... hmm.. I Think the enormous imbalance of casualties speaks for itself, as far as how the war in Iraq is. If you are an American, you chances of surviving Iraq are very high, and it is not because you are more motivated. If you are an insurgent, your career is probably going to be very short.

 

[MobBoss]

Killing people with American weapons and technology is easy. Killing people with underground manufactured roadside bombs is hard.

Rofl. Not. They use roadside bombs precisely because they are easy. How hard can it be to rig an old artillery shell to explode, bury it, and then remotely detonate it when someone drives over it?

I guess what sucks is American war is like deer hunting.

How would you know?

American soldiers have very few chances to do anything heroic. They just zip around in armored cars or helicopters with night vision and fight poorly equipped and poorly trained kids with Ak's and RPGS. If the fight gets hard, they call in air support. Its just a bunch of mercenaries like yourself killing people determined not to let their country be ruled by a foreign power.

He is not a mercenary. If he were he would be making a lot more money.

Then when you all come home, you ask us to treat you like heros. Whatever.

I dont remember any soldier EVER asking any such thing. Not being spit on is nice, but I dont think any soldier expects to be treated like a hero.

My only hope for you is you understand later in life what must be done to redeem yourself.

A soldier who serves faithfully and well doesnt have to 'redeem' himself. His loyal service is its own redemption.

 

[Bill3000]

I'm pretty sure the last thing we need in this thread is a spatfest...

 

[LucyDuke]

Did you think I would hand him cookies? Perhaps tell him to see a shrink that would give him pills and tell him the memories will go away when he finds his happy place?

And, umm... hmm.. I Think the enormous imbalance of casualties speaks for itself, as far as how the war in Iraq is. If you are an American, you chances of surviving Iraq are very high, and it is not because you are more motivated. If you are an insurgent, your career is probably going to be very short.

You're right. Chaz should shut up and do his job.

Or run away to Canada? I don't even know what you're trying to say other than that you're better than him.

 

[Neomega]

Rofl. Not. They use roadside bombs precisely because they are easy. How hard can it be to rig an old artillery shell to explode, bury it, and then remotely detonate it when someone drives over it?

A lot harder than shooting exploding rounds from an armored humvee, or shooting rockets and missiles from an apache with night vision.

How would you know?

There are lots and lots of websites with footage of the Iraq war.

He is not a mercenary. If he were he would be making a lot more money.

Oh.. that's right.. he is fighting for the freedom of the world.

I dont remember any soldier EVER asking any such thing. Not being spit on is nice, but I dont think any soldier expects to be treated like a hero.

Whatever. They come back and tell us they were fighting for my right to say they weren't fighting for my right to say they arent fighting for my right to say the war has nothing to do with my right to free speech.

A soldier who serves faithfully and well doesnt have to 'redeem' himself. His loyal service is its own redemption.

Perhaps. But for some, a few medals just doesn't do the trick.

 

[Neomega]

I don't even know what you're trying to say...

I know, but you are running your mouth anyways.

I am not saying I am better than him. I am merely letting him know, I don't particularly think he is a bad ass warrior, nor do I have any respect for his profession*. The fight is entirely lopsided. of course he knows it, I know it, and anybody with a modicum of common sense knows it.



*of course, American soldiers at D-Day get respect and such, but current American soldiers/marines.... no.

 

[MobBoss]

People who think war is bad can't offer perspective? Can't validate his concerns?

It says a lot about the psychological support the military offers that he's even expressing these doubts here to begin with.

Actually thats a huge false assumption on your part. You have no idea of his motivation or reason for posting this here. And yes, the overall perspective here of his concerns should be addressed with someone equipped to deal with it: a army chaplain.

If the evil lefties aren't going to help, why isn't the military helping to start with? Chaz can't be the only soldier thinking this way.

The army does help. You have no idea of the level and number of required classes we have to attend so that we can spot and help soldiers being affected by PTSD or TBI. Again, please dont assume things you dont know anything about.

And please, spare me the "oh we do plenty". Fine, you do plenty, but obviously not enough to get to Chaz before he goes asking the internet with its horrible lefties.

Would you prefer to remain ignorant about what we do about it? Apparently so. My workspace is festooned with posters about suicide prevention, TBI, PTSD, how not all wounds are visible, how to help a buddy...etc. etc. etc. Again, you commit the logic fallacy that if Chaz posts about it here we arent doing enough. Another false assumption on your part. Chaz himself already stated that I gave him the best advice of the thread - and it was. It also comes from someone (me) far more familiar with his issues than the vast majority here. Why dont you simply recognize that and move on?

 

[Neomega]

Would you prefer to remain ignorant about what we do about it? Apparently so. My workspace is festooned with posters about suicide prevention, TBI, PTSD, how not all wounds are visible, how to help a buddy...etc. etc. etc. Again, you commit the logic fallacy that if Chaz posts about it here we arent doing enough. Another false assumption on your part. Chaz himself already stated that I gave him the best advice of the thread - and it was. It also comes from someone (me) far more familiar with his issues than the vast majority here. Why dont you simply recognize that and move on?

How many men have you killed? How many times have you been shot at? Oh, that's right... you are just a desk jockey. But somehow you know better. what a shame, you wish you were a soldier, but all you are is a legal assistant that wears camos every now and then.



Moderator Action: Stop with the trolling/flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Adrogans]

*of course, American soldiers at D-Day get respect and such, but current American soldiers/marines.... no.

Wow you have to go all the way back to WWII? Geeze well I'll let my friends and family know that Kuwait wasn't glad we came and helped them. Or South Korea. Oh yeah I'll admit Vietnam was a cluster .... on all sides. Afghanistan? Yeah I feel we were right to be sent there. Current Iraq war? Not so much. Does this mean I do not respect the soldiers? Hell no.

 

[Neomega]

Wow you have to go all the way back to WWII?

pretty much, yeah.

Geeze well I'll let my friends and family know that Kuwait wasn't glad we came and helped them.

saving a king from a dictator does not make me any more free.

Or South Korea.

Saving a capitalist dictatorship from a communist dictatorship does not make me any more free.

Afghanistan? Yeah I feel we were right to be sent there.

Perhaps. But the people flying the drones around, I just don't see how I am supposed to have respect for them, or say with a straight face they are risking their lives for my freedom.

 

[LucyDuke]

I know, but you are running your mouth anyways.

I am not saying I am better than him. I am merely letting him know, I don't particularly think he is a bad ass warrior, nor do I have any respect for his profession*. The fight is entirely lopsided. of course he knows it, I know it, and anybody with a modicum of common sense knows it.



*of course, American soldiers at D-Day get respect and such, but current American soldiers/marines.... no.

So you weren't trying to say anything other than that you're better than him. Got it.

 

[MobBoss]

A lot harder than shooting exploding rounds from an armored humvee, or shooting rockets and missiles from an apache with night vision.

Again...how in the hell would you know?

There are lots and lots of websites with footage of the Iraq war.

Thats just....too funny. You saw it online and now your an expert. Right.

Oh.. that's right.. he is fighting for the freedom of the world.

No, he is serving his country. Just like soldiers have since the beginning of our nation. No more, no less.