Is Y a Vowel or not?
- Thread starter classical_hero
- Start date
Except it's used in such words as 'yo' (I/me) and 'ayer' (yesterday), also 'ayuda' (help), etc. but also in 'Paraguay' (the name of the country, originally in Guaraní).
Akka
Moody old mage.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
You actually make me wonder. How did the "Y" ended in our alphabets? We can think that the original Latin language got influenced by Greek words which imported the letter. However, the "Y" doesn't exist in the Italian alphabet!
Indeed, as opposed to the French or English alphabets, the Italian alphabet has no "J", no "K", no "W", no "X" and no "Y".
"X", "Y", and "K" are Greek letters. "W" is I believe Germanic and I'm not sure about "J"... but anyway, can we believe the Greek letters have indeed been imported in the Latin alphabet and then discarded when the language evolved to modern Italian?
Indeed, as opposed to the French or English alphabets, the Italian alphabet has no "J", no "K", no "W", no "X" and no "Y".
"X", "Y", and "K" are Greek letters. "W" is I believe Germanic and I'm not sure about "J"... but anyway, can we believe the Greek letters have indeed been imported in the Latin alphabet and then discarded when the language evolved to modern Italian?
The Celts used the Greek alphabet, according to Caesar, which may be significant.
hahahaha no
probably came from appropriation of Latin-employed characters that were effectively useless in the Latin alphabet by Old English-speakers for sounds that weren't expressed by other letters, e.g. /y/
And the Dachs-strike strikes again! Although I can't actually think of a Latin word containing the letter y... I'll take your word for it, though.
EDIT: That is of course unless it was used as a variant of I, and we know that medieval scribes weren't exactly the most standardised bunch of people.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Well... that may sound a good explanation but that would mean those letters would be used only in English and that's not the case. Spanish, French, German and Slavic languages use them.
I see only two possibilities. Either the letters already existed before the written new languages were constituted, or there's been some kind of alphabet standardization at one point of History. The second option doesn't seem likely.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Well, after a quick search on wikipedia. I actually have the answer. I watched for French words of Greek origins and how they were said in Italian.
And guess what?
Xylophone is called Xilofono in Italian.
So this proves that the letters are indeed used in Italian (and were probably used also in Latin), but they aren't referenced as official "letters".
It makes sense. After all in German, the ß is used to express a double s, but it's not referenced as an official letter.
And guess what?
Xylophone is called Xilofono in Italian.
So this proves that the letters are indeed used in Italian (and were probably used also in Latin), but they aren't referenced as official "letters".
It makes sense. After all in German, the ß is used to express a double s, but it's not referenced as an official letter.
As far as I know, the y is also considered both a vowel and a semi-consonnant in French. Like in English, the y can be used to represent the phoneme /j/, like in yaout, yeux or envoyer.
It should be noted that the Romans used "X" in their alphabet, and not in the way the Greeks did.
"W" was exactly what its English name says: a double "U" (or "V", a consistent distinction between both only started to appear during the middle ages). Same with "J", which carries the /j/ sound in certain languages, for which Latin used "I", and which is simply a ligature form for "I" which ended up being its own letter over time.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The only Latin word I can think of that uses the letter Y is Myrmillo, which refers to a type of gladiator which wore a heavy helmet with a high crest and broad rim that resembled a fish. The name for the gladiator was first coined in Latin, but is derived from on a term for a saltwater fish which had been borrowed from Greek. There were alternate spellings for the gladiatorial term using the letters U or I instead of Y, and the fish itself was often spelled with an O instead of an Y.
Originally, the letter C made the G sound, as it was borrowed from Gamma. Over time the pronunciation of the letter C shifted and displaced the letter K (previously derived from Kappa). The letter K continued to be used the in native Latin word Kalendae (the first day of the month) and sometimes its derivatives like Kalendaria (Calendar), but was normally reserved for when one wanted to make a word seem foreign (usually something borrowed directly from Greek). RVCA, the first man recorded as opening an elementary school, insisted that his name be pronounced the old fashioned way and so invented the letter G to made the distinction clear. (Alright, modern scholarship largely rejects this, claiming the letter was in use already before his lifetime, but ancient authors certainly gave his the credit.) He assigned the letter its place in alphabetical order, replacing the letter Z, which had been borrowed from the Greek Zeta long before but was never really used in Latin. Once Latin writers started using more and more Greek words the letter Z was reintroduced, and placed at the end since g was firmly entrenched. By that time the letter Y had already been introduced to denote the "Greek I" sound.
Originally, the letter C made the G sound, as it was borrowed from Gamma. Over time the pronunciation of the letter C shifted and displaced the letter K (previously derived from Kappa). The letter K continued to be used the in native Latin word Kalendae (the first day of the month) and sometimes its derivatives like Kalendaria (Calendar), but was normally reserved for when one wanted to make a word seem foreign (usually something borrowed directly from Greek). RVCA, the first man recorded as opening an elementary school, insisted that his name be pronounced the old fashioned way and so invented the letter G to made the distinction clear. (Alright, modern scholarship largely rejects this, claiming the letter was in use already before his lifetime, but ancient authors certainly gave his the credit.) He assigned the letter its place in alphabetical order, replacing the letter Z, which had been borrowed from the Greek Zeta long before but was never really used in Latin. Once Latin writers started using more and more Greek words the letter Z was reintroduced, and placed at the end since g was firmly entrenched. By that time the letter Y had already been introduced to denote the "Greek I" sound.
Similar threads
