IS

[Agent327]

This is presumably the only comprehensible part of that post:

the Russians are indeed bombing in total , ISIL and all . Some Turkoman leader was on TV last night declaring Russians drop missiles 6 meters long . Which do not go off in general

Yes, today they have been bombing IS positions. Yesterday they only hit civilians - according to the Syrians who actually live in the Homs area.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Yesterdays declaration:

We, the Governments of France, Germany, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Kingdom and United States of America state the following in view of the recent military actions of the Russian Federation in Syria:

We express our deep concern with regard to the Russian military build-up in Syria and especially the attacks by the Russian Air Force on Hama, Homs and Idlib since yesterday which led to civilian casualties and did not target Da'esh.

These military actions constitute a further escalation and will only fuel more extremism and radicalization.

We call on the Russian Federation to immediately cease its attacks on the Syrian opposition and civilians and to focus its efforts on fighting ISIL.

 

[innonimatu]

Any time after a revolution there is going to be instability, people look at Libya and expect it to be perfect simply because of said aerial intervention - which frankly is naive. Said intervention however allowed moderates to actually have a foothold in post-G Libya. Without said intervention, the various scattered moderate militias would have been crushed/beaten back by the Libyans to a much higher degree leaving hardliners with even more control of Libya. The groups that wouldn't have broken as much against the Libyan forces would have been the hardliners

You're just repeating the bullcrap propaganda you've been fed to justify that particular war.

Let me tell you about it. The government of Libya faced a rebellion by some of the local members of the ruling elite of the country, encouraged by promises of foreign backing (more on that later), who then mobilized their clientèle. The reasons for their rebellion were many (and we can discuss them), but could be summed up in "one bunch of power-hungry guys wanting to take power from the other". The intent was to carry out a coup, but it failed when the people controlling the central government didn't just fold and flee.
Then there was war, and in a few weeks the central government would have killed some of the rebels, scared the others off, forced the ringleaders to flee to exile, and the country would be back on track - a country with the highest living standards in Africa!

Instead the foreigners who originally encouraged the failed coup doubled down on their bet and sent in weapons. And when even that wasn't enough and only fueled a lasting civil war, then they also bombed the government. Finally it collapsed. Which paid off for some of those who had pushed for the coup in the first place (the funds belonging to the Libyan government were stolen and the theft was never investigated, nor is there anyone in position to investigate) by easing some financial troubles for certain large banks and the states that would have had to bail them out otherwise. But created troubles of a different kind, a refugee crisis in some of those states, loss of trade with Libya as the country's economy is in no shape to recover anytime soon, political instability.

In this the ones who were really screwed were the libyans. All sides that were involved lost. The coup ringleaders, most of their followers, the former government.

In essence, Libya would have been similar to Syria. Which isn't to say Libya is perfect, far from it - but it at least has an out that it can follow through even going through such difficult times. If we had intervened in Syria early oon, countless moderate rebel groups wouldn't have since been destroyed or annihilated. That isn't to say the the hardline extremists wouldn't still exist, but it would leave Syria in a position where the people would get to have a legitimate say in its future.

There is no such thing as a moderate rebel group. A rebel group by definition is willing to do what it takes to take over power. There is no "moderation" in that. One fights, kills and destroys as much as necessary for the only alternative is losing. For Syria to have peace again all rebel groups must be eliminated. If they want to become "moderate" they can disband themselves as rebels. This means that one group will have to be victorious in the war. You can't have peace and have "numerous rebel groups", if you wish to protect rebel groups then in effect you're wishing either the partition of Syria into numerous countries or an endless civil war upon them - is that supposed to be a good thing?
Libya is in that situation. Living conditions there have plummeted, the country is wrecked. Was it worth it for the "feel-good" sensation of saying you were supporting "freedom"?

Look at the American revolution for example - some French did denounce its intervention as a failure because of our weak central state after the revolution and some of the farmers rebellions which followed in between our articles of confederation and the eventual constitution.

The american revolution was fought on until it succeeded. There was one group of rebels, capable of setting up government. The french intervention also succeeded in its real aim, weakening their rivals the UK. It was not an altruistic intervention. And in the end it caused terrible trouble within France (the state's bankrupcy).

 

[innonimatu]

Not quite: Russia, Iran and Iraq have agreed to share information in combating IS. But IS is just one of Assad's multiple problems. And so far Russia's military aid has been used to target not IS, but civilians in opposition-held territory. Russia is simply continuing its policy of supporting Assad no matter what, but doing so now under the guise of 'combating IS'. Iraq, however, has a direct interest in combating IS, which controls part of its territory. Iran is not supporting Assad, but has an interest in keeping Iraq weak - yet it is vehemently opposed to IS as well. The only party combating each and everyone is IS. So things are not as simple as some people would like them to be.

Yes, I forgot about Hezbollah as well. The situation in Syria is indeed highly complicated. But I doubt it is fair to say Iran supports Assad's hold on power, as he doesn't seem to have any. The Assad regime currently is just one of the various groups trying to gain control of Syria. Meanwhile the population suffers.

You know who you "forgot"? The purveyors of weapons to all those rebels. The guys who train them. The guys who give them intelligence and open the borders to resupply them. The guys who have a policy in Syria of destroying its government no matter what.

Stop playing the saint or the impartial guy. You're advocating for the US and its allies, who created this civil war in the first place. Yet another war, yet another secular regime destroyed in the middle east to open the way to religious fanatics or anarchy. Once might have been an accident (Iraq), tho is a pattern (Libya), three is too obvious for any amount of propaganda to hide. You efforts are wasted.

For the information of the people who may read your drivel, half the population that remains in Syria is living in government-held territory. Despite all the weapons poured in, all the attempts at bombing Syria that this time were blocked by the russians and the chinese, all the fresh recruits brought in to swell the ranks of the rebels, despite all this the "crumbling government" has resisted. It's not going to fold or surrender. And it's not without allies willing to fight either. This time the US hawks and their allies bit more than they could chew. But the syrians still suffer because of that, it's going to be a long war.

 

[Agent327]

I'm not sure where that rant came from (not from anything I posted), but I don't support any intervention in Syria.

Try reading words that are actually written, not words that are already in your head.

 

[r16]

This is presumably the only comprehensible part of that post:

Yes, today they have been bombing IS positions. Yesterday they only hit civilians - according to the Syrians who actually live in the Homs area.

them stupid Russians can only bomb civilians , as we are told by the Syrians who live in the area , and strategy sites who collect and disseminate all the Twitter and Facepook activity of the Civil War . Until of course , some guy has a picture he has seen online , dedicated to a rebel commander or something that died on the first day . Syrian Air Force has killed enough civilians , they would do equally well if the planes were just turned over to them . Russian difference is supposed to be Precision attack ; that's exactly why ISIL stops public prayers and executions , because Russians being pigs or something would not hesitate to bomb any gatherings .

and oh , the Russian bombs go off good enough .

 

[Tigranes]

(CNN)Iraq's military claims its air force struck a convoy in western Anbar province that included ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

The fate of al-Baghdadi is unknown, the military statement said.

"The Iraqi airforce carried out a heroic operation by striking al-Baghdadi's convoy while he on his way to attend a meeting with senior ISIS leaders in Karabelah," the statement said.

The site of the meeting was also struck and several ISIS leaders were killed and wounded, the statement said.

Claims that al-Baghdadi has been hit in airstrikes have been made twice over the past year. In November, Iraqi officials said he had been wounded in an airstrike. In March, Iraq's Interior Ministry said the Iraqi air force wounded al-Baghdadi in an airstrike on the Iraqi town of Al-Qaem.

Each time, audio recordings of al-Baghdadi showed up on social media within days after the airstrikes.

He is enemy No. 1 in the fight against ISIS, and this summer, U.S. intelligence officials said they believed al-Baghdadi was in the area of Raqqa, Syria, the de facto capital of the self-declared Islamic State. He was also still in charge of ISIS' operations, they said.

 

[Tigranes]

And now ISIS is alleged to have carried out the single largest terror attack in Turkish history, right in the heart of Ankara. I say "alleged" because ISIS (which is notorious for filming its acts of violence and uploading them onto social media) has not claimed responsibility for any of the attacks it is said to have carried out in Turkey. These include a bombing of the Kurdish/progressive HDP election rally in Diyarbakır this past June, in which four people died; and another one the following month in Suruç, on Turkey's border with Syria, with a death toll of 33. The targets in both the Suruç and the Ankara bombings were leftist/secular groups campaigning for peace and for closer ties between Turks and Kurds. Turkey's police are known for their overzealousness in monitoring gatherings by such groups; however, they took no security precautions prior to the Ankara rally, which had been announced days earlier and was attended by thousands from all over the country. Both Davutoğlu and Minister of Internal Affairs Selami Altınok have since denied that any negligence took place.


Behlül Özkan, Assistant professor at Marmara University; Author of the blog article "Turkey's Unwillingness to Take on ISIS Has Come Back to Haunt It."

 

[Phrossack]

I find it highly unlikely that ISIS did this. One, they've never been eager to pick fights with Turkey, especially since Turkey is the ingress of so many of their fighters from overseas and a major market for their oil. Two, as you mentioned, ISIS is proud of every atrocity and crime against humanity it commits, and if it had done this attack, it probably would have said so.

I have no idea who committed the attack in Ankara, though.

 

[Tigranes]

I find it highly unlikely that ISIS did this. One, they've never been eager to pick fights with Turkey, especially since Turkey is the ingress of so many of their fighters from overseas and a major market for their oil. Two, as you mentioned, ISIS is proud of every atrocity and crime against humanity it commits, and if it had done this attack, it probably would have said so.

I have no idea who committed the attack in Ankara, though.

It does look suspicious that police was not hanging out next to the protesters just like they always do with those types.

 

[Ajidica]

I find it highly unlikely that ISIS did this. One, they've never been eager to pick fights with Turkey, especially since Turkey is the ingress of so many of their fighters from overseas and a major market for their oil. Two, as you mentioned, ISIS is proud of every atrocity and crime against humanity it commits, and if it had done this attack, it probably would have said so.

I have no idea who committed the attack in Ankara, though.

Plus, it is Turkey, where the deep state is a Thing.

 

[Tigranes]

WASHINGTON—Federal prosecutors have charged a man in Malaysia with hacking the personal information of more than 1,000 U.S. military personnel and federal employees and giving that information to Islamic State terror group.

The suspect, a citizen of Kosovo named Ardit Ferizi, was detained in Malaysia based on a U.S. arrest warrant, officials said.

Officials say Mr. Ferizi called himself “Th3Dir3ctorY’’ online, and is the leader of a Kosovar Internet hacking group called Kosova Hacker’s Security. Prosecutors say he hacked into a corporate computer system in the U.S., stole data about Americans who worked for the government, including military personnel, and then gave it to Islamic State member Junaid Hussain, a hacker working for the group who was killed by an airstrike in August.

Assistant Attorney General John Carlin, who heads the Justice Department’s National Security Division, said the charges amounted to a first-of-its-kind case in which a hacker teamed up with a terror group to target Americans for violence.

“Ardit Ferizi is a terrorist hacker who provided material support to ISIL by stealing the personally identifiable information of U.S. service members and federal employees and providing it to ISIL for use against those employees,’’ said Mr. Carlin, using an alternate name for the group.

Authorities expect Mr. Ferizi to be extradited to the U.S., where he is likely to face trial for providing material support to Islamic State, unauthorized access to a computer, and aggravated identity theft.

It wasn't immediately clear if Mr. Ferizi had a lawyer.

Malaysia’s police chief, Khalid Abu Bakar, said in a statement Thursday that the 20-year-old suspect arrived in Malaysia in August to study computer science and computer forensics at a local college. Mr. Khalid said Mr. Ferizi is now being held to await extradition to the U.S.

Islamic State has urged supporters to conduct individual attacks on U.S. military personnel at their homes or wherever they can find them.

According to a criminal complaint unsealed Thursday in federal court in Northern Virginia, Mr. Ferizi around June targeted a server used by an unidentified U.S. retailer and stole the information relating to roughly 100,000 customers. Mr. Ferizi apparently culled from that information the details of 1,351 U.S. military service members and federal employees, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

He provided that information to Mr. Hussain, the complaint alleges, and Mr. Hussain then used Twitter to post a link on Aug. 11 to a 30-page document listing those Americans.

At the top of the document was a threat reading, “We are in your emails and computer systems, watching and recording your every move, we have your names and addresses, we are in your emails and social media accounts, we are extracting confidential data and passing on your personal information to the soldiers of the Khilafah, who soon with the permission of Allah will strike at your necks in your own lands!’’ The Khalifah is a term for the leader of the Caliphate.

The case offers a vivid example of the sometimes far-flung global nature of terrorism: A 20-year-old Kosovar citizen living in Malaysia on a student visa allegedly sharing stolen data with a British hacker living in Syria to encourage and facilitate attacks in America.

 

[r16]

trust me , some Starfleet Admiral , that the recent comments fall rather short . One of the guys who blew himself up was named to the Police by his parents , almost two years ago . Now see this , the family is Alevi , they have relations in the political branches of the seperatists , an uncle of the bomber is such an activist and he went directly to the Intelligence service which the Americans might confuse with that esteemed technology center in Massachusetts . The boy had started attending Sunni prayers in a mosque , his words did not sound acceptable . Precisely because of those reasons nothing happened so that the links between the seperatists and ISIL could be established whenever some PR campaign required it . His sister actually directly wrote to the offices of Prime Minister and the President that he was capable of doing bad things . Apparently he had a twin , apparently because the full course of discussion is banned by courts in Turkey due to continiuing investigations . This second guy was taken by the Police because of being a draft evader and let go . Next day , he bombed a seperatist rally in Diyarbakır .

the brilliant aspect about that court order , a startlingly new thing in Turkey , that it bans criticism of the court order . Expect this to be a stepping stone for the banning of political opposition .

and so what ? This official who said they could not apprehend suicide bombers before they blew themselves up because it would have been unlawful and against basic rights did a swell job of correcting himself by announcing that they could not get them while they were in Syria only to top that with the declaration that the idealogical difference between the A-K-P and ISIL was 360 degrees . ı would seriously expect a teleprompter to be present when the Prime Minister of any country is giving a televised question and answer show .

but then there is this thing . The seperatists are so full of themselves , extra bouyed by the US support . The only way Ankara thinks it's possible to fight them is Kurds , of the Muslim variety . As such , the seperatist issue is not just the cover for the Counter-revolution , only because any secular comeback will not be able to talk to Muslim Kurds in the Southeast but also the ISIL must be protected AND it's just that the Kurds make one third of ISIL . Ask any German Intelligence Service member on internet forums and he will be exactly like that .

this of course hurts the US . They declared they bombed ISIL last night in co-operation with Turkish planes . The official news agency of Turkey says only a car or truck was hit and that was hit by a US Predator drone , Ankara had nothing to do with it . America indeed takes part in all those "command decisions" that guide the daily life in Turkey . There was an attack on a media executive where some guys pumped 2o odd rounds into the guy's car and only 4 penetrated the front window and the like . There was this impressive range of statements about the use of a 0.45 caliber Colt , never seen in Turkey . Making this look like CIA hit teams finally on the ground to muzzle a righteous voice in service of the rising star of Turkey . And nothing was ever discovered . Today police says they discovered the culprits in two days back in August and the courts took two months to issue warrants . America really would like you to believe that a Muslim , of a leading family of the New Turkey , would loose 12 millions of USD in gambling and the mafia , composed of ex-policemen already in jail would dare pumping bullets to the car of a chief asset of the PM . Otherwise this would seriously look like they were conducting black flag ops on themselves . You saw no mockery on this now that it's so obvious they might have imported foreign talent who could and it might have been real bloody and this evident for idiots of even my caliber ...

the link is the charges of such black operations were a chief method of the Counter-revolution when it was fashionable to arrest generals . The thing about this Deep State in Turkey is all bullsh_t and horse dropping ; when the son of a Colonel who made his name with beating up newpapermen in the 60s attempted to conduct a black flag and the idiot lawyer he sent up to scare accidentally or something killed a judge and it turned out the judge had a Jewish firend in the US who called for the extermination of all those animals and stuff in this so called Deep State , the son of the Colonel , who also was a Commando once , managed to fail in his HaraKiri and something , merely ending up in hospital with a knife wound just under the heart . Thus was the entire saga of Ergenekon begun . The inaptitude is tiresome even for the US ...

tell and draw ? ISIL did it . If you are trying to blame Turkey itself , wait for the greenlight from Barack spineless jerk Hussein , His Most Exalted Spinelessness Gracing The World So Far In The 21st Century .

 

[Tigranes]

the idealogical difference between the A-K-P and ISIL was 360 degrees .

As a highly educated pilot you must know that 360 difference means 0 difference right?
What a slip of a tongue! In Armenia we say -- berni poste posta (mistake of the mouth is quite a mistake)!

Look, you really don't need to mention America here. IS and Turkey share enemies. Kurds, Assad, etc. So indeed 360 difference, as opposed to 180.

By the way, for the very first time, I was able to read your entire post and understand it! What happened?

 

[r16]

only because it might have suited whatever world view you are holding .And am not a pilot , am a turbolazer turret guy . Won't make much of a difference though , a strafing run from 100 feet up or 100 000 miles , right ?

360 degrees means what it means . As for whether that's worth anything like an attachment of epithet of truth , you can also examine the latest from a "former" Islamist now kinda revolted by the current actions of Islamists ... He has heard it from an high ranking A-K-P official that the PM is ready to "divide" the country , as in making it impossible to bring it back together and making it possible for the seperatists to get their state . This is actually something standart ; the New Turkey sorta always starts a crisis and expects compromise . With all the sacrifises to come from the other side and all the good speeches from the leading lights of the smarties . Have no experience in vote fixing , can not provide ...


america ? What's America without creating trouble and stuff ? America decides ISIL will be Turkey's enemy or friend as needed ...

 

[Kyriakos]

This official who said they could not apprehend suicide bombers before they blew themselves up because it would have been unlawful and against basic rights did a swell job of correcting himself by announcing that they could not get them while they were in Syria only to top that with the declaration that the idealogical difference between the A-K-P and ISIL was 360 degrees .

Tigranes already noted that, but yeah, funny and likely very true claim!

 

[r16]

do not pile on me or something ; as said it's not a mistake but an action considered at length and somehow incredibly decided to be "wise" ... Neither the voters and stuff are that dumb not to see what's that and what it's not , but let's say the reins of power and stuff make people conform .

 

[Kyriakos]

I am not piling on you, i thought it was what the official said (which, let's be honest, would not be a surprise with 'congregation tv' tone )

 

[r16]

it's official . Not perhaps on written paper , but on pro-party TV .

 

[Agent327]

Can I remind our dear posters this is supposed to be a RD thread?