"Islam is violent! Just read the Koran to see for yourself!"

[Red Door]

Not all of Christianity though. Again, you're confusing the church with Christianity as a whole. For example, God isn't responsible for what the Conquistadors did in South America... The difference is that the Christian God condemns such practices, while Islam does not (they were pagans, aka nonbelievers). And I'm wrong when I say "the church", as there is more than one church - I have yet to see the Protestant church burn someone on the stake, or a Coptic Orthodox declare that whoever does not follow their religion deserves dying.

And Allah is responsible for what a suicide bomber does in Iraq? For every passage that Islam does not condemn these practices, it has one that does. That is the problem with Islam as a whole, it cannot be interpreted "correctly" because it contradicts itself multiple times. These Christians believed they were acting for the glory of God when they did these actions. And you've yet to see a Protestant Church burn someone on the stake?

 

[Mirc]

And Allah is responsible for what a suicide bomber does in Iraq?

No. That's exactly what I'm saying.

These Christians believed they were acting for the glory of God when they did these actions.

That's exactly what I said earlier - the Church is a human institution. It's not my fault, as a Christian in the other part of the world that some church brainwashed those people in its political interest. You simply can't possibly argue that Christianity as a whole encourages violence, and I can show you lots of Bible quotes for encouraging peace.

And you've yet to see a Protestant Church burn someone on the stake?

I'm sorry, I wanted to give examples of Oriental Orthodox autocephalous churches. I mentioned the Coptic church and I was talking about the Syriac Orthodox Church which is also informally called Chalcedon Protestant Syriac Church. I missed the rest of the name as I messed up the link, which was supposed to contain the full name (see I made multiple edits to my post).

 

[Red Door]

That's exactly what I said earlier - the Church is a human institution. It's not my fault, as a Christian in the other part of the world that some church brainwashed those people in its political interest. You simply can't possibly argue that Christianity as a whole encourages violence, and I can show you lots of Bible quotes for encouraging peace.

Where did I say that? I said that Christianity has its parts of violence, and the Christian/Jewish God has his moments of violents as well.

 

[holy king]

I think you got me a bit wrong here. I'm not saying that according to the Old Testament, God didn't kill the male firstborns of Egypt. I'm saying that I do not believe the factual accuracy of the Old Testament, but I do believe the accuracy of the New One.

and this is because...?

I have yet to see the Protestant church burn someone on the stake.

ok, you dont really know what you're talking about, are you?

 

[Mirc]

Where did I say that? I said that Christianity has its parts of violence, and the Christian/Jewish God has his moments of violents as well.

Well, that's what I was arguing against (that Christianity is inherently as violent as Islam). And as for the last part, I already addressed that one (with the moments of violence).

 

[Mirc]

and this is because...?

Because it contradicts the New Testament and as I said whenever there is a contradiction between those two, the New One is always right.

ok, you dont really know what you're talking about, are you?

Ok, you don't really know how to read my other posts or my edits, do you? There's more than one church called Protestant, go read post #62. There is also a church called the Catholic Orthodox church...

 

[holy king]

Because it contradicts the New Testament and as I said whenever there is a contradiction between those two, the New One is always right.

and this is because of...?

Ok, you don't really know how to read my other posts or my edits, do you? There's more than one church called Protestant, go read post #62. There is also a church called the Catholic Orthodox church...

well i cant foresee your edits... and of course you meant some strange little sect and not THE protestant church, what was i thinking...

edit: and although the link you provided is called "syriac protestant church" it leads to an article about the "Syriac Orthodox Church"... cant you just agree that you were wrong about this "protestants not burning people at stakes" thing?....

 

[Red Door]

Well, that's what I was arguing against (that Christianity is inherently as violent as Islam).

Did I say that?

 

[Mirc]

and this is because of...?

Well there are 2 reasons.

- Because the New one is... well... newer! What law is right for us to apply, the one the US used in 1900 or the one used in 2007?
- The New one is the only one written from the teachings and life of Christ. The Old one is the one where Christianity began its monotheistic foundations.

 

[holy king]

Well there are 2 reasons.

- Because the New one is... well... newer! What law is right for us to apply, the one the US used in 1900 or the one used in 2007?
- The New one is the only one written from the teachings and life of Christ. The Old one is the one where Christianity began its monotheistic foundations.

-if god is almighty, why does he have to change and adapt his message and laws as if it was the human us-law system?
-so the wrtitings about life, speeches and deeds of christ are less metaphorical than the old testament, because...?

 

[Bill3000]

- The New one is the only one written from the teachings and life of Christ. The Old one is the one where Christianity began its monotheistic foundations.

Judaism had the monotheism thing down pat with the concept of a singular God. It didn't need Christianity to fuddle it up with making it a trinity.

 

[holy king]

Not all of Christianity though. Again, you're confusing the church with Christianity as a whole. For example, God isn't responsible for what the Conquistadors did in South America... The difference is that the Christian God condemns such practices, while Islam does not (they were pagans, aka nonbelievers). And I'm wrong when I say "the church", as there is more than one church - I have yet to see the (Edit: Corrected, partial name and messed up link) Chalcedonian Protestant Syriac Church burn someone on the stake, or a Coptic Orthodox declare that whoever does not follow their religion deserves dying.

all wrong facts and false links aside, do you have any idea how many small islamic sects there are? its always the same with every religion, most follow the sandal, but some will stick to the bottle...
they all have either the bible or the koran as basis, some are violent, bacuase they pick the violent parts of the writings, some are pacificst because they pick the pacifist parts...

the only thing that makes the koran more dangerous than the bible (and thats an essential thing) is that the koran actually is a law text, and that makes islamic theocracies much more persistable than christian ones.

 

[Mirc]

-if god is almighty, why does he have to change and adapt his message and laws as if it was the human us-law system?
-so the wrtitings about life, speeches and deeds of christ are less metaphorical than the old testament, because...?

- he did not change the message and laws. It's just that before Christ came, people were not told the full message. If he wanted us to know his message and nothing else from the beginning, he wouldn't have gave Adam and Eve the choice of an original sin.
- not less metaphoric, but they are not based on what Christ directly did or say, and since I do believe Christ is the Son of God, partly God and partly human, what he said is obviously more trustworthy than what was before him that contradicted what he said.

 

[holy king]

- he did not change the message and laws. It's just that before Christ came, people were not told the full message. If he wanted us to know his message and nothing else from the beginning, he wouldn't have gave Adam and Eve the choice of an original sin.

if it was only part of the message at first(instead of a wrong message), why are there contradictions?

- not less metaphoric, but they are not based on what Christ directly did or say, and since I do believe Christ is the Son of God, partly God and partly human, what he said is obviously more trustworthy than what was before him that contradicted what he said.

you do know the first evangelium was written at least 50 years after the time jesus is supposed to have lived? how can you take every word literally, when it obviously cant be?

 

[Mirc]

Judaism had the monotheism thing down pat with the concept of a singular God. It didn't need Christianity to fuddle it up with making it a trinity.

If you're debating whether the Holy Trinity makes Christianity a polytheistic religion, well Christianity is still perfectly monotheistic, since there aren't 3 different persons but three different faces of the One God we worship. See the difference? You could have two names, but it doesn't mean you became two.

From what I see, this thread has fallen into a debate about all principles of Christianity, in an attempt to find an error in my beliefs.

all wrong facts and false links aside, do you have any idea how many small islamic sects there are? its always the same with every religion, most follow the sandal, but some will stick to the bottle...
they all have either the bible or the koran as basis, some are violent, bacuase they pick the violent parts of the writings, some are pacificst because they pick the pacifist parts...

the only thing that makes the koran more dangerous than the bible (and thats an essential thing) is that the koran actually is a law text, and that makes islamic theocracies much more persistable than christian ones.

Yes I am perfectly aware of the multiple Islamic sects existing. But, to my knowledge, there isn't 1 Islamic sect that does not recognize the Koran, and I do believe that the Koran is clearly more violent than the Bible, if you understand the principle of the New Testament being right in the matters where it contradicts the Old Testament and the Old Testament being right in all the matters where it doesn't contradict the New Testament, which is the basis of Christianity.

So since all the Islamic sects follow the Koran, and all the Christian sects follow the Bible, then all we have to do is show that the Bible (in the way I mentioned above - not that it would be more violent otherwise ) is less violent than Islam to prove that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity.

 

[Mirc]

if it was only part of the message at first(instead of a wrong message), why are there contradictions?

Now, that's bringing up an argument in which you don't believe yourself. Omission leads to wrong conclusions, and we all know this very well. If I do not know all the truth about a certain police case, I cannot draw a proper conclusion no matter what. With one single fact that I did not know, everything can be different.

you do know the first evangelium was written at least 50 years after the time jesus is supposed to have lived? how can you take every word literally, when it obviously cant be?

Yes, I know. And I do not take it word by word, because unlike the Koran, it does not claim all the text in it is perfect. I'm not taking it literally, but I believe it is more trustworthy, and this is exactly what I said above:

obviously more trustworthy than what was before him that contradicted what he said

So don't put words in my mouth. I did not ever say I take every word literally (a lot can be lost even only in translation ).

Again, we're drifting off-topic, and I go back to my earlier conclusion: From what I see, this thread has fallen [from a comparison between violence of the two religions mentioned in the OP] into a debate about all principles of Christianity, in an attempt to find an error in my beliefs.

 

[holy king]

yep, sorry guys, was just having fun, back to koran...
what is more refreshing than an argument that can be ended by saying "because jesus was the son of god, thats why the new testament is right"
see thomas payne in my sig...

 

[cubsfan6506]

since there aren't 3 different persons but three different faces of the One God we worship. See the difference? You could have two names, but it doesn't mean you became two.

God is a three headed monster, that suffers from multepersonality disorder?

 

[LightFang]

No. It's like a coin.

On one side you have Heads. On the other side you have Tails. But it's still just one coin (this is the analogy my Econ SL teacher used to describe increasing costs and diminishing returns.)

 

[BasketCase]

Scuse me a moment while I re-write the thread title a bit:

Islam is violent. Just look at the number of suicide bombings to see for yourself.

Done.

When's the last time anyone saw a Christian suicide bomber?? There's not a lot of them out there.

Except maybe Jehovah's Witnesses, but that's more of a "suicide door-knocking" thing.