Israel admits forcing birth control shots on Ethiopian women

[Cheezy the Wiz]

what was 'debunked' were the crude and inhuman methods that were applied in the past

You mean like sterilizing immigrants so they don't make their black babies in our country? It's for their own good, you know.

 

[El_Machinae]

Where were immigrants sterilized?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Where were immigrants sterilized?

Winner has proposed in this thread that stopping these Ethiopian immigrants from having babies is right, and is "for their own good." Duressing them into birth control shot prescriptions is for all intents and purposes sterilization. If they could, they would probably choose actual sterilization, given their motives and their attitude.

 

[Agent327]

Juts a pity the women involved weren't informed of their "controlled breeding"...

I read it thrice now and I still don't see a clear statement that they were mislead as to the effects of the drug. What were they told they were taking, vitamins?

Drugs. Coming from a doctor it must be a good thing, no?

I understand it pretty well, thank you very much. You should know that first generation migrants do tend towards higher than average birth rates, especially if coming from countries as poor and underdeveloped as Ethiopia. Limiting the number of children these people have can only help improve their social standing and speed up their integration into the society.

Oh. it's all good then.

Wait...what? That's exactly what birth control is! Controlled breeding isn't necessarily sinister though unless it's paired with power and racism like is being alleged in this case.

Umm, no. Birth control is not equal to "controlled breeding"... No eugenics involved in contraception, dear sir.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Nope. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but what was 'debunked' were the crude and inhuman methods that were applied in the past. Eugenics is not a science per se but rather a philosophical approach.

Eugenics will have a huge comeback once genetic screening/manipulation becomes commonplace, simply because parents want to have healthier and smarter kids.

I think this statement is highly revealing, as have been your previous statements along the same lines. While science will quite likely provide for "healthier and smarter kids" in the future as we learn more about genetics, confusing it with the "philosophical approach" of eugenics is beyond absurd.

Where were immigrants sterilized?

While I would agree that forced birth control shots are not the same as sterilization, the intent is the same as Cheezy pointed out.

Still waiting for a reputable source to corroborate your previous statement regarding the "scuttlebutt" that it was actually US organizations which perpetuated this heinous deed.

 

[El_Machinae]

Winner has proposed in this thread that stopping these Ethiopian immigrants from having babies is right, and is "for their own good." Duressing them into birth control shot prescriptions is for all intents and purposes sterilization. If they could, they would probably choose actual sterilization, given their motives and their attitude.

Ah, I thought you were referring to something specific. I don't really buy the idea that Depo shots and Depo prescriptions are morally equivalent to coerced sterilization, especially without informed consent. I think it's a step too far in the inflammatory direction.

I'm still trying to figure out whose 'motives and attitudes' we're condemning here. In that, I'd like to know who the players are. To my mind, the legal status of these women and their level of informed consent is really important.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Again, you have already tried to claim through "scuttlebutt" that it was due to an American NGO without any actual proof, and despite all the facts to the contrary:

Israel has admitted for the first time that it has been giving Ethiopian Jewish immigrants birth-control injections, often without their knowledge or consent.

Nearly 100,000 Ethiopian Jews have moved to Israel under the Law of Return since the 1980s, but their Jewishness has been questioned by some rabbis. Last year, the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who also holds the health portfolio, warned that illegal immigrants from Africa “threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state”.

Sharona Eliahu Chai, a lawyer for the Association of Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI), said: “Findings from investigations into the use of Depo Provera are extremely worrisome, raising concerns of harmful health policies with racist implications in violation of medical ethics. The Ministry of Health’s director-general was right to act quickly and put forth new guidelines.”

 

[Flying Pig]

I have to point out that there's no suggestion of a direction from On High to give birth control to Etheopians - it seems to me more a failure to control racist doctors and low-level managers acting on their own initative. Of course, this is equally reprehensible, but less food for the tinfoil hat brigade.

So it was just a handful of doctors and "low level managers" acting on their own volition which caused the Ethiopian birth rate to decline by 50% and become even less than the Israeli birth rate?

I passed no judgement about the numbers of those people: I'd also add that, since the overwhelming majority of Ethiopian Israelis are relativeky recent migrants, it could be expected to have a significant effect on their birth rate.

 

[Formaldehyde]

So it was just a handful of doctors and "low level managers" acting on their own volition which caused the Ethiopian birth rate to decline by 50% and become even less than the Israeli birth rate?

Talk about "food for the tinfoil hat brigade".

 

[emzie]

When Israelis talk about illegal immigration from Africa, are they talking about Ethiopian Jews or migrant workers of non-Jewish faith? I'd've assumed the latter.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Many Israelis claim that many of the Ethiopian Jews really aren't Jews at all. That they are using it as an excuse to immigrate. As the article I previously posted makes quite clear, this is especially true with the latest immigrants. Many of them were refused admittance in the past because they were forced to convert to Christianity against their wills.

 

[emzie]

Many Israelis claim that many of the Ethiopian Jews really aren't Jews at all. That they are using it as an excuse to immigrate.

But is that what Netanyahu is hinting at? Is he using code words like some southern politicians were/are known to do?

 

[Leoreth]

Umm, no. Birth control is not equal to "controlled breeding"... No eugenics involved in contraception, dear sir.

I think that strongly depends on who's doing the controlling.

 

[Formaldehyde]

But is that what Netanyahu is hinting at? Is he using code words like some southern politicians were/are known to do?

It seems to be far more blatant than that. There were only an estimated 55,000 "illegal immigrants" in Israel as of last year, and most of them were men. That is hardly a dire threat to the nation's continuing existence, not that the number of Ethiopian immigrants are either.

Israel Admits Ethiopian Immigrants Were Coaxed Into Receiving Birth Control Shots

Under the Law of Return, approximately 100,000 Ethiopian Jews have moved to Israel since the 1980s. That this community has been the target of eugenics practices is unsurprising, as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has expressed concern in the past that illegal immigrants from Africa somehow threaten Israel’s existence as a Jewish and democratic state. This anti-Ethiopian sentiment, as well as the larger anti-African racism recently voiced in Israel, potentially explains why the government had previously denied the practice of pressuring Ethiopian women to receive contraception without their knowledge.

 

[Domen]

Kidnapping children, blood libels, the Protocols of Zion, running secret societies, being vampires, staging the Holocaust, eugenics - what else ???

Are we in the Middle Ages ??? - International Jewish conspiracy theories

No we are not in the Middle Ages, we are in the Middle East (and some of us are also in the brainwashed part of the Western World):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=529078&page=34

 

[Mouthwash]

A racist eugenics program. How fitting.

Gotta say the jews learned from the best

Is it just me or is Israel slowly turning into Nazisrael?

And I used to be somewhat neutral in the whole Israeli vs Palestinian conflict.. so you can't really accuse me of bias. Oh sure, I guess you could, but Israel is going down a path they will regret, many years down the road.

Haven't there been rumors about this for a long time? Black Jews aren't considered truly "Jewish" in Israel. They have restricted/banned acceptance of Black Jewish blood in the past in blood drives, there have been schools that have banned Black Jews, there have been stories of friendly fire and hazing of African descent Jews in the army, etc.

It reminds me of people who as children get raped and then as adults rape themselves.

Shock as state that already commits racism (via allowing illegal settlers and settlements, stealing land etc), commits yet more racism.

Wow. That is terrible. I had never heard of it before. And UNICEF was even in on it...

Tell me, folks, how would you react if this all popped up on every single thread regarding your country/nationality/political group? This is a perfect example of real hatred on Civfanatics. The notion of "Jews repeating what Hitler did to them" is essentially a blood libel against Israeli Jews. There is no person, no human being, who wouldn't go berserk.

The eugenics program, for those of you who weren't around, has been shown to be a hoax, and the Ringworm affair's own Wikipedia article refutes it in depth. If you need more, there's this.

 

[brennan]

Tell me, folks, how would you react if this all popped up on every single thread regarding your country/nationality/political group?

That wpuld be heavily dependent upon how deserved the comments were. In Israel's case they seem quite appropriate.

That comparisons with the Nazis are somehow inherently 'anti-semitic' is a load of balls, emotional blackmail and an appeal to emotion fallacy.

 

[Domen]

Black Jews aren't considered truly "Jewish" in Israel.

Ekhm? Ethiopians aren't even truly "Black", but Mulattos. So we are talking about Mulatto Jews.

 

[Traitorfish]

Tell me, folks, how would you react if this all popped up on every single thread regarding your country/nationality/political group? This is a perfect example of real hatred on Civfanatics. The notion of "Jews repeating what Hitler did to them" is essentially a blood libel against Israeli Jews. There is no person, no human being, who wouldn't go berserk.

I don't understand the analogy to blood libel?

edit: To clarify, blood label entailed accusing Jews of crimes which they did not commit, but this is people looking at the documented behaviour of the State of Israel and IDF and describing it in unflattering terms. I agree that the "Israel = Nazis" analogy is tired, unhelpful and frequently very crass, but I don't see the implications you're trying to draw from it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Tell me, folks, how would you react if this all popped up on every single thread regarding your country/nationality/political group? This is a perfect example of real hatred on Civfanatics. The notion of "Jews repeating what Hitler did to them" is essentially a blood libel against Israeli Jews. There is no person, no human being, who wouldn't go berserk.

The eugenics program, for those of you who weren't around, has been shown to be a hoax, and the Ringworm affair's own Wikipedia article refutes it in depth. If you need more, there's this.

What was the intent to resurrect this long dead thread while trolling so many people?

And don't you remember your own attempt to label this matter a "hoax" was completely debunked in that other thread you created? That this thread really has nothing at all to do with this "ringworm affair"? That it was just mentioned in passing?

What is interesting though is how dramatically the Wiki article on the "ringworm affair" has changed. It originally echoed what the documentary stated. But now it is completely different based on the research of a single Israeli "medical historian" who just so happens to be a member of the Israeli Ministry of Health. That this completely revised Wiki article, which was just recently edited again, is now marked for "cleanup".

Why do you think the Israeli government was finally forced by its own courts to compensate those who received this treatment in 1995 if it was a standard medical procedure at the time? Have other countries done so? Why this judgment was reiterated by the courts again in 2006 after the Israeli government continued to try to exclude all they could?

The registrar added: "I have trouble understanding why the state is insisting on not compensating the plaintiffs, when it does not refute their allegations regarding having been exposed to radiation, and is hiding behind formal arguments such as the statute of limitations." The judge hinted that it may be necessary to delete the regulation in the law excluding compensation for victims living overseas.