Israeli Neo-Nazies?

[Bast]

Trouble adjusting in Israel? Leave, that is the main core of people leaving Israel BTW, semi-jewish people coming from former USSR, taking the jenerous package and leaving.

Absolutely disgusting. Can't you guys do something about it?

 

[jeps]

at times like this I'm gladd I cant read Al_da_great's posts, I'm sure I'd be in a hell of an argument right now.

As well, I know of jews who support the holocaust. That is worse than Israelis. Hitler didnt* have it in for Palestinians.

* = unless you follow Turtledove's theory that since arabs were semites, that they were just as bad as jews, and that when hitler in Mine Enemies conquered arabia he killed the arabs as well

 

[Stewbert 08]

Looks like Israel's "prove you are sort-of-almost-a-Jew, get free citizenship!" thing is biting them in the ass. As it should.

That's what you get when you let your country be run over by pushtak cossacks.

 

[Mirc]

All studies show Jews have higher IQ than "Aryans": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence

I thought we were agreed all kinds of humans have virtually the same brain capacities? Are you telling me that being a blue eyed blond I'm automatically less intelligent than an Israeli? I doubt that.

 

[Peng Qi]

You can improve your results on such tests through practice and other environmental factors. You aren't really making the absurd statement that the only difference between someone in a good school/environment and someone in a bad school/environment are the facts they are exposed to?

No, I'm making the apparently "absurd" statement that while you have evidence to back up your side of the argument (and the side of the argument I tend to buy into, for the record), there is also evidence to back up the other side of it.

 

[Yeeek]

As much as I don't agree with anything AL is saying, I don't think anything is really gained just by pointing at him and saying "ZOMG NAZI" over and over again. If you're going to engage him in conversation, at least do it on firm footings and addressing the root of what he's saying instead of debasing yourself by resorting to insults.

Insults? I thought it was very soft! I'm afraid we have obviously two different opinion on the matter but That's ok with me.

To answer your questions, I don't want to get in a conversation with him. That goes with all the people who are fanatical with something, be it their religion, politics, their sport or heck even their child. You can't discuss with someone like that. Just listening to them. Because said person will always be right.

I could.. however get into a bar fight with someone openly claiming they are Neo-Nazi. Maybe beating them over and over would teach them they are in the wrong? No really.. come on do you really believe such person deserve your attention? Racists, xenophobes doesn't deserve mine.

I understand AL is probably a teenager, 14 or something? We all had our period I guess.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Insults? I thought it was very soft! I'm afraid we have obviously two different opinion on the matter but That's ok with me.

To answer your questions, I don't want to get in a conversation with him. That goes with all the people who are fanatical with something, be it their religion, politics, their sport or heck even their child. You can't discuss with someone like that. Just listening to them. Because said person will always be right.

I could.. however get into a bar fight with someone openly claiming they are Neo-Nazi. Maybe beating them over and over would teach them they are in the wrong? No really.. come on do you really believe such person deserve your attention? Racists, xenophobes doesn't deserve mine.

I understand AL is probably a teenager, 14 or something? We all had our period I guess.

I am 16. It isn't a period, I have been racist ever since a muslim kid started at my daycare when I was 4.

 

[.Shane.]

Yes and no. Tests specifically designed not to factor in informational knowledge, focusing entirely on problem solving still show Africans scoring lower on such tests. You can again say there are external factors, but that doesn't change that there is evidence to support such a theory.

lol, "Africans"? Had no idea that an Egyptian=Kenyan. You have any links to this research?

 

[Peng Qi]

lol, "Africans"? Had no idea that an Egyptian=Kenyan. You have any links to this research?

Yes. Africans, on average, do worse on such tests. [sarcasm]I also had no idea that Egyptian=Kenyan. I'm glad you told me that; I guess I had been mistaken in assuming that two groups of people who live so far apart could be the same subgroup! Of course, this doesn't change the fact that they're both from the same main group: Africans, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.[/sarcasm]

Anyway, here is a link to a Wikipedia entry for a book about the subject that defends the perspective that different cultural groups tend to have higher or lower IQs: Wikipedia Entry

I'm sure the book itself has plenty of evidence within it that would coincide with the beliefs of the original poster which I am continuing to defend as a devil's advocate.

 

[ArneHD]

<snip>

Ethnically, Egyptians are closer to Arabians than to sub-Saharan Africans. That goes for most of North Africa.

 

[Mirc]

Yes. Africans, on average, to worse on such tests. I also had no idea that Egyptian=Kenyan. I'm glad you told me that; I guess I had been mistaken in assuming that two groups of people who live so far apart could be from the same subgroup! Of course, this doesn't change the fact that they're both from the same main group: Africans, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

Anyway, here is a link to a Wikipedia entry for a book about the subject that defends the perspective that different cultural groups tend to have higher or lower IQs: Wikipedia Entry

I'm sure the book itself has plenty of evidence within it that would coincide with the beliefs of the original poster which I am continuing to defend as a devil's advocate.

Lol, I don't think you could have got him more wrong, he was saying that "Egyptian" doesn't equal at all "Kenyan"... He was ridiculing the lumping together of all people in Africa.

 

[Peng Qi]

Lol, I don't think you could have got him more wrong, he was saying that "Egyptian" doesn't equal at all "Kenyan"... He was ridiculing the lumping together of all people in Africa.

And I was ridiculing him for making an absurd nonpoint in an otherwise legitimate discussion. It doesn't matter that Egyptians and Kenyans are different ethnically; they still both count toward the African average. I knew exactly what he was saying; I was just responding to sarcasm with more sarcasm, which I thought was as obvious as could be but I guess not.

 

[BaneBlade]

Some groups are inferior, but some aren't for example Jews and Japanese. That doesn't mean that we have to mix. Isreal for Jews Germany for Germans.

If your avatar is anything to go by i will tell you one thing: You're obviously not aryan, have a nice time with your new nazi overlords.

 

[warpus]

And I was ridiculing him for making an absurd nonpoint in an otherwise legitimate discussion. It doesn't matter that Egyptians and Kenyans are different ethnically; they still both count toward the African average. I knew exactly what he was saying; I was just responding to sarcasm with more sarcasm, which I thought was as obvious as could be but I guess not.

But it doesn't really make sense to do that; it doesn't give you anything interesting at all you can say about your results.

It's like lumping native americans and polish people together because they live on the same continent, and then saying that North Americans are inherently this and that.

 

[Peng Qi]

But it doesn't really make sense to do that; it doesn't give you anything interesting at all you can say about your results.

It's like lumping native americans and polish people together because they live on the same continent, and then saying that North Americans are inherently this and that.

It doesn't matter. It's just a matter of convenience. Listing off every country in Africa other than a handfull of North African countries would take a whole lot longer than just saying "Africans."

 

[ArneHD]

Update!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6987848.stm

Israeli anger over 'Nazi' group
By Martin Asser
BBC News, Jerusalem

Three suspected members of the alleged neo-Nazi gang
The accused and their families have denied any neo-Nazi activity
Israelis have been shocked by the story of a group of young immigrants from the former Soviet Union who allegedly formed a neo-Nazi cell in the Jewish state - founded as a haven from the European anti-Semitism that led to the Nazi Holocaust in World War II.

The group, from the central town of Petah Tikva, are said to have filmed themselves carrying out hate crimes, wearing Nazi insignia and proclaiming their allegiance to Adolf Hitler.

Eight young men are being held over 15 assaults of Orthodox Jews, foreign workers and other minority groups. Police said a ninth youth had fled the country.

It is thought to be the first organised neo-Nazi cell to be uncovered in Israel, although alleged members and their families have denied any neo-Nazi activity.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert spoke of his outrage at the footage, viewed by ministers at a cabinet meeting, and said that Israeli society had failed to educate the youths.

About one million former Soviet Jews have immigrated to Israel since the 1990s, under the country's "law of return", which allows entry to anybody who is Jewish or has Jewish ancestry (defined as having at least one Jewish grandparent).

Some of the immigrants are thought to have only the most tenuous links to Judaism, and experts say a small minority have embraced Nazi beliefs.

'Widely ignored'

Marina Niznik, a lecturer at Tel Aviv University, says some young Russian-speaking Israelis are being influenced by a rise in fascism in their former homelands.

Alleged Nazi gang members
The suspects allegedly proclaimed allegiance to Adolf Hitler

"Some of this generation are completely lost in society. They don't feel an affiliation with Israeli society, they feel like strangers," she says.

They are conscripted into the Israeli army but many experience a feeling of alienation from society, fed by lives spent in low-income areas and in broken families.

"It is as a sort of protest, a form of self-identification. The problem is that no-one wants to speak about this, it has been widely ignored until now," Ms Niznik said.

Zalman Gilichenski, of the Information Centre for Victims of Anti-Semitism, an NGO, says neo-Nazi behaviour among some immigrants is encouraged by links they maintain with racist groups in Russia.

"Many times the police and government ministries were told about this, but they were not interested," Mr Gilichenski told the BBC.

"There are other groups like these in almost every city in Israel," Mr Gilichenski said.

"In Russia, a day doesn't pass without a racist murder, and these youths are very connected to their friends in Russia (through the internet) and they learn from them; they even videotape their attacks."

'Deportation'

Worshippers in prayer shawls look at a swastika sprayed inside a synagogue in Petah Tikva in May 2006 (file picture)
Some accuse the authorities of ignoring the problem

The discovery of a violent anti-Semitic cell among young people, whose immigration to Israel was based on their having Jewish roots, has caused particular outrage in the Israeli media and public, sparking calls for action.

"We obviously have to change immigration policies, not to take in everyone who wants to come," Mr Gilichenski said.

There have also been calls for the law to be changed to permit the revocation of Israeli citizenship and deportation for neo-Nazis.

At the moment, the Israeli statute outlaws denial of the Holocaust, but not neo-Nazi behaviour.

Michael Jankelowitz, of the Jewish Agency, which is responsible for immigration to Israel, warns against knee-jerk reactions, saying the Petah Tikva case arises from an internal Israeli problem with the education system.

"Immigrants from the former Soviet Union have changed the face of Israel," Mr Jankelowitz told the BBC.

"They have made an enormous contribution in the fields of medicine, hi-tech, science and the arts," he says.

Other experts say it would be against the state of Israel's strategic interests as Israel needs to encourage immigration because of the demographic challenge to the Jewish state from a growing Israeli Arab and Palestinian population.

 

[Bad Player]

They are not Jews. That's the whole point.

The video link in the BBC article says that they were asked in court if they were Jewish and quotes one of them as saying yes and his mother is and another saying his father is (the latter response sounded evasive IMO) although the others probably aren't.

 

[nivi]

IIRC only one of them is considered jewish by jewish law (mother jewish->child jewish).

 

[Bad Player]

Yeah the father one sounded like he might not have been calling himself Jewish (by law or by personal belief).