Jordan Peterson

[Atilla-My-Hun]

He addressed it in his interview with H3. He said he likes “totalitarian art”.

So, a pretty big fascist.

You consider the Soviet Union to be fascist now?

 

[inthesomeday]

You consider the Soviet Union to be fascist now?

I don’t. Did I say that?

 

[cardgame]

I think literally everyone on the planet can agree that the Soviet Union was totalitarian, which was the adjective at hand.

 

[Atilla-My-Hun]

I don’t. Did I say that?

I'm just trying to rationalize how you're able to claim that someone who hangs communist artwork in his home is a "pretty big fascist" and possibly a Nazi, or sympathetic to Nazis whatever.

 

[inthesomeday]

I'm just trying to rationalize how you're able to claim that someone who hangs communist artwork in his home is a "pretty big fascist" and possibly a Nazi, or sympathetic to Nazis whatever.

So I guess you literally didn’t read my post rationalizing it for you then, good to know we’re in the business of ignoring each other here

 

[Atilla-My-Hun]

So I guess you literally didn’t read my post rationalizing it for you then, good to know we’re in the business of ignoring each other here

No, I did. Your post just seemed crazy, so naturally I assumed you must of had some other piece of rational that you weren't telling us about, but I guess not.

 

[cardgame]

Did he or did he not bring up cultural marxism as if it were a real and serious thing?

 

[Atilla-My-Hun]

Did he or did he not bring up cultural marxism as if it were a real and serious thing?

Cultural Marxism is a real thing. It's a KGB cultural subversion tactic that's documented. It's a type of atypical warfare.

 

[inthesomeday]

No, I did. Your post just seemed crazy, so naturally I assumed you must of had some other piece of rational that you weren't telling us about, but I guess not.

...I literally cited the guy himself lmao

Cultural Marxism is a real thing. It's a KGB cultural subversion tactic that's documented.

THATS A BINGO

 

[cardgame]

Cultural Marxism is a real thing. It's a KGB cultural subversion tactic that's documented.

The moon landing was faked

 

[Atilla-My-Hun]

The moon landing was faked

And Hillary is president.

 

[Traitorfish]

I think literally everyone on the planet can agree that the Soviet Union was totalitarian, which was the adjective at hand.

Whether "totalitarian" is a useful way of describing the Soviet Union, or whether it's a useful term at all, is pretty hotly contested among political scientists and political historians.

Also, like, tankies.

But it's true enough that if Peterson is using "totalitarianism", he probably doesn't mean "Communism, and only Communism". Else, he would have said "Communism".

 

[Berzerker]

Following Carl Jung, Peterson identifies “archetypes” in myths, dreams, and religions, which have apparently defined truths of the human condition since the beginning of time. “Culture,” one of his typical arguments goes, “is symbolically, archetypally, mythically male”—and this is why resistance to male dominance is unnatural. Men represent order, and “Chaos—the unknown—is symbolically associated with the feminine.” In other words, men resisting the perennially fixed archetypes of male and female, and failing to toughen up, are pathetic losers.

Chaos = Tiamat (female), order = Marduk (male)... Prior to order Tiamat was 'at war' with other gods, Marduk ended the war by carving up Tiamat to form Heaven and Earth. With creation the gods were assigned their respective 'destinies' (orbits) with the newborn Earth (part of Tiamat) carried away from the site of the battle and Heaven left behind to mark it as a 'screen' separating the waters (order). This was before humanity, chaos and order refer to the early solar system when the planets migrated about causing massive collisions (the late heavy bombardment). He's basing his defined truth of the human condition on a myth describing anthropomorphized planets.

 

[Chose]

Jordan Peterson & Fascist Mysticism

It's pretty interesting, and takes a more interesting look at the fellow-feeling between Peterson and the alt-right than trying to the thread the line between his comments on IQ and his weird lobster analogies than whatever's on the frontpage of Breitbart.

Like Peterson, many of these hyper-masculinist thinkers saw compassion as a vice and urged insecure men to harden their hearts against the weak (women and minorities) on the grounds that the latter were biologically and culturally inferior.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this guy has failed to understand Peterson.

 

[inthesomeday]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this guy has failed to understand Peterson.

In that case so has everyone on earth but you, including Peterson himself

 

[Kyriakos]

Chaos = Tiamat (female), order = Marduk (male)... Prior to order Tiamat was 'at war' with other gods, Marduk ended the war by carving up Tiamat to form Heaven and Earth. With creation the gods were assigned their respective 'destinies' (orbits) with the newborn Earth (part of Tiamat) carried away from the site of the battle and Heaven left behind to mark it as a 'screen' separating the waters (order). This was before humanity, chaos and order refer to the early solar system when the planets migrated about causing massive collisions (the late heavy bombardment). He's basing his defined truth of the human condition on a myth describing anthropomorphized planets.

Hm, indeed this argument of Peterson sounds bizarre/poor. And yes, Order and Chaos don't seem to tie to male/female linguistically (eg in ancient/modern greek the term for order is feminine, and the term for chaos is neutral). Furthermore, there were gods of order, and gods of chaos, apparently in most cultures. In ancient greek the obvious pair would be Apollo (order) and Dionysos (chaos). There is also Athena (tied to order), Hestia (order), Artemis (tied to chaos) and then all sorts of darker deities like Cybele and the Kaviroi.

Seems to be low-level a claim by Peterson, and not serious. Although the feminine is tied to emotions far more than the masculine. But that is another issue.

 

[Chose]

In that case so has everyone on earth but you, including Peterson himself

No. As someone who actually knows people who like Peterson, none of them think "women and minorities [are] biologically and culturally inferior". I don't think Peterson thinks that either.

Although, I realize telling you this is almost certainly a waste of time, as you have already demonstrated to me earlier in the forum that you have no problem completely incorrectly telling someone what they believe. As someone who has full access to my own beliefs and feelings, I can know as a matter of fact that you are willing to say I believe something I don't. So in light of that, it isn't surprising that you treat others this same way.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Chaos = Tiamat (female), order = Marduk (male)... Prior to order Tiamat was 'at war' with other gods, Marduk ended the war by carving up Tiamat to form Heaven and Earth. With creation the gods were assigned their respective 'destinies' (orbits) with the newborn Earth (part of Tiamat) carried away from the site of the battle and Heaven left behind to mark it as a 'screen' separating the waters (order). This was before humanity, chaos and order refer to the early solar system when the planets migrated about causing massive collisions (the late heavy bombardment). He's basing his defined truth of the human condition on a myth describing anthropomorphized planets.

Hmm, I wonder if there's any topic you can't turn to Sumerian mythology? Well done on this one though, wasn't expecting it at all.

 

[El_Machinae]

In that case so has everyone on earth but you, including Peterson himself

You're positing that you have some special insight, and I'd suggest that you should just use statistics to doubt that proposal. Odds are, you're failing to perceive something that others are, rather that only you see something. Sure, you have an insight, but you're missing that others are too.

Activist liberals are really screwing up with Peterson. They seem to be using a variant of the Milo process, but it's the wrong one. Milo entertains a specific crowd. But this is not the same crowd that likes Peterson.

You know intelligent centrists that have gotten some value out of what they've heard Peterson say. It might be a perspective change, or it might be an insight. Or whatever. Sure, stupid fascists like Peterson too, but you cannot just point this out to your friends. It will get no traction, and the more you insist Peterson is a fascist, the more the centrist (who found value in what the person said) will just diminish their opinion of you. You lose them in the longer run.

Peterson requires a scalpel, not a hammer. There are oodles of useful points in his analysis. And your friends have already figured out that they enjoyed those insights. You need to pivot to the points where you can knowledgeably disagree with a (false) point they've not yet been inoculated. And if you cannot figure out what value they've gotten, then it's not them that's suffering a paucity of understanding.

 

[Berzerker]

Hmm, I wonder if there's any topic you can't turn to Sumerian mythology? Well done on this one though, wasn't expecting it at all.

I clicked on TFs link to see what the guy was arguing and wasn't expecting to find the creation myth of chaos and order at the heart of his sexism