Jordan Peterson

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Activist liberals are really screwing up with Peterson. They seem to be using a variant of the Milo process, but it's the wrong one. Milo entertains a specific crowd. But this is not the same crowd that likes Peterson.

Oh yeah? A Venn diagram comes to mind. At least some of the crowd that likes Milo likes Peterson. Another group likes Peterson and sympathises with the group that likes Milo without liking Milo themselves.

The toxic elements are there to make Peterson an icon of the culture war, and an even more insidious one since he can be held up as a figure who operates under the cloak of respectability.
 
Hasn't Peterson also made a video where he is speaking positively of Milo? (i may be wrong about his particular view, but iirc the video is about (Peterson thinking that) Milo is "unstoppable" etc. Granted, in context it may mean something else).

Milo isn't a uni professor. He is a pro troll, though. Peterson seems far more reserved, that is for sure. My impression from the little of his i watched (and read, due to the thread) is that he wasn't ready for instant fame, and what he has to present doesn't seem to be particularly of note -- and nothing of actual note is needed so as to become a hero of large parts of the polarized sides.
 
The issue is probably not so much with the guy himself, but with whose narrative he empowers.
 
The issue is probably not so much with the guy himself, but with whose narrative he empowers.

An iron law of the universe: the more Youtube videos you can watch of a guy who routinely claims his free speech is being suppressed, the chances that he's an attention-seeking douchebag get closer and closer to one
 
Hasn't Peterson also made a video where he is speaking positively of Milo? (i may be wrong about his particular view, but iirc the video is about (Peterson thinking that) Milo is "unstoppable" etc. Granted, in context it may mean something else).

Milo isn't a uni professor. He is a pro troll, though. Peterson seems far more reserved, that is for sure. My impression from the little of his i watched (and read, due to the thread) is that he wasn't ready for instant fame, and what he has to present doesn't seem to be particularly of note -- and nothing of actual note is needed so as to become a hero of large parts of the polarized sides.

It's not of note because you didn't find anything useful in it. Remember, there are oodles and oodles of people who really enjoy (for lack of a better word) 'reading'. Trolls will happily listen to stuff that makes them angry, but Peterson has attracted people who read for fun. That's valuable feedback. Criticisms like "Peterson didn't say it first" don't really fly, because they'd not read those earlier inputs. There are literally CFCers like this, where they often write things that are useful to the person they're engaged in conversation. Not because we're geniuses, but because we like to think and then write down ideas. There are some posters who're just overwhelmingly wrong every time they post. There are some posters who mostly post to troll. But they deserve a different response than the person who's kinda right/sometimes wrong but also sincerely articulate.
 
It's not of note because you didn't find anything useful in it. Remember, there are oodles and oodles of people who really enjoy (for lack of a better word) 'reading'. Trolls will happily listen to stuff that makes them angry, but Peterson has attracted people who read for fun. That's valuable feedback. Criticisms like "Peterson didn't say it first" don't really fly, because they'd not read those earlier inputs. There are literally CFCers like this, where they often write things that are useful to the person they're engaged in conversation. Not because we're geniuses, but because we like to think and then write down ideas. There are some posters who're just overwhelmingly wrong every time they post. There are some posters who mostly post to troll. But they deserve a different response than the person who's kinda right/sometimes wrong but also sincerely articulate.

I am not saying he has to be entirely without reason to exist, but from what i have seen (and i just saw random videos of his, and reflected on some theories posted here, of his - also asked for a full article, but it seems nothing is available) it looks as if Peterson just over-reacted to the spotlight. There aren't many geniuses. It is not unlikely that there is no genius, for example, in our own site, and that has thousands of posters (though surely not in the OT part :D ), many of which do present useful/ other stuff to each other :)

To make another parallel with Cfc: when presenting stuff to many strangers, it is easy to have your tone be taken as something other than what it is. Though it is a bit harder to do so if you actually, actively become part of trolling (how many of us here would really even want to be part of the 'debate' troll wars on either main media or on youtube? Trolling another poster isn't quite the same thing :) ).
 
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So this is maybe relevant,

I'm a college philosophy professor. Jordan Peterson is making my job impossible.
I've been teaching philosophy at the university and college level for a decade. I was trained in the 'analytic' school, the tradition of Frege and Russell, which prizes logical clarity, precision in argument, and respect of science. My survey courses are biased toward that tradition, but any history of philosophy course has to cover Marx, existentialism, post-modernism and feminist philosophy.

This has never been a problem. The students are interested and engaged, critical but incisive. They don't dismiss ideas they don't like, but grapple with the underlying problems. My short section on, say, Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex elicited roughly the same kind of discussion that Hume on causation would.

But in the past few months internet outrage merchants have made my job much harder. The very idea that someone could even propose the idea that there is a conceptual difference between sex and gender leads to angry denunciations entirely based on the irresponsible misrepresentations of these online anger-mongers. Some students in their exams write that these ideas are "entitled liberal bull----," actual quote, rather than simply describe an idea they disagree with in neutral terms. And it's not like I'm out there defending every dumb thing ever posted on Tumblr! It's Simone de ----ing Beauvoir!

It's not the disagreement. That I'm used to dealing with; it's the bread and butter of philosophy. No, it's the anger,hostility and complete fabrications.

They come in with the most bizarre idea of what 'post-modernism' is, and to even get to a real discussion of actual texts it takes half the time to just deprogram some of them. It's a minority of students, but it's affected my teaching style, because now I feel defensive about presenting ideas that I've taught without controversy for years.

Peterson is on the record saying Women's Studies departments and the Neo-Marxists are out to literally destroy western civilization and I have to patiently explain to them that, no, these people are my friends and colleagues, their research is generally very boring and unobjectionable, and you need to stop feeding yourself on this virtual reality that systematically cherry-picks things that perpetuates this neurological addiction to anger and belief vindication--every new upvoted confirmation of the faith a fresh dopamine high if how bad they are.

I just want to do my week on Foucault/Baudrillard/de Beauvoir without having to figure out how to get these kids out of what is basically a cult based on stupid youtube videos.

Honestly, the hostility and derailment makes me miss my young-earth creationist students.
expletives removed, censored rather than deleted to preserve sentence structure

Any thoughts?
 
Any thoughts?
By the standards of Anglosphere "feminists" today Simone de Beauvoir would have been a rapist.
Maybe those toxic students get triggered by that. Maybe they really don't like rape.

hmm.gif
 
By the standards of Anglosphere "feminists" today Simone de Beauvoir would have been a rapist.
Maybe those toxic students get triggered by that. Maybe they really don't like rape.

hmm.gif

What do you think feminists are
 
reddit said:
Honestly, the hostility and derailment makes me miss my young-earth creationist students

I feel that pain, we had to deal with it regularly as well, specifically YECs. Luckily, none of my students were YECs, there would be no way to make it to my level and still be a Creationist. But the earlier courses literally had to weed them out. The student that couldn't grasp evolutionary concepts would need to fail the course. The ones who didn't believe it, but could at least answer the questions, could pass. There was no real way out of it, but the professors got better and better at explaining the underlying theories before the students 'put it together' that the theories under-cut their basic premise of a 6000 year old earth.

We didn't just say "you're a moron and Hovind is a moron". We had to say other things.
 
What do you think feminists are

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
wicked_witch.jpg


LDO.
 
I feel that pain, we had to deal with it regularly as well, specifically YECs. Luckily, none of my students were YECs, there would be no way to make it to my level and still be a Creationist. But the earlier courses literally had to weed them out. The student that couldn't grasp evolutionary concepts would need to fail the course. The ones who didn't believe it, but could at least answer the questions, could pass. There was no real way out of it, but the professors got better and better at explaining the underlying theories before the students 'put it together' that the theories under-cut their basic premise of a 6000 year old earth.

We didn't just say "you're a moron and Hovind is a moron". We had to say other things.

Most of us who aren't university educators were and are pretty comfortable calling creationists morons to be perfectly honest. Nobody's got time for that.
 
It is not unlikely that there is no genius, for example, in our own site, and that has thousands of posters (though surely not in the OT part :D )
There is at least one, and I suspect several more.
 
If we define genius by IQ I can guarantee we have two at the very least
 
The basic definition of a genius is someone with an IQ of 150 or above. I can think of four or five people (at least, not including myself) here that would fit that target range. In fact, I would argue that the majority of the posters in OT are of above average intelligence.
 
Mathematically, the odds of taking a sample of 'thousands' and having none of them having a characteristic that is present in almost 2% of the general population are vanishingly small. For that to happen there would have to be some really strong deterrent factor keeping said geniuses away from CFC.
 
I think Kyr is probably going off a different definition of genius than "IQ above 150" but idk
 
I think Kyr is probably going off a different definition of genius than "IQ above 150" but idk
Possibly. I'm using the clinical definition.
 
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