Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

[Mistfit]

Ok Tech Update:

Computer operational
PTW installed and working properly

Tonight:
Re-install 2 versions of CivIII 1.29 (1 modded GOTM + MB's Kicker - 1 not)

Thanks to Gator for the info ~

 

[Karasu]

Knock, knock...

 

[AlanH]

Apologies for the delay - I finished last night but was falling asleep at the keyboard as I was typing this turn log ..... ZZzzz

Summary We destroyed one Han city and one Korean city. We learnt Construction and Literature, and at 150 BC we have the opportunity to learn Currency and Polytheism to take us into the Middle Ages.

Preflight Three cities were building warriors before they had barracks. I changed two to barracks builds as I don't think we should build regular troops, and Tosontsengel switched to a harbour as we'll need a trade route to our new cities on that island. Choyr was building a temple, but it would only capture four tiles when its culture grew. I swapped that to a barracks, and switched Canton to a temple. This will grab many more tiles, including the four targeted by Choyr.

F4 - nothing to do.

IBT 3/3 warrior dies attacking Tosontsengel, promotes gospodar to 3/5.
3/3 archer kills 4/4 gospodar at Tosontsengel.
Barb galley sinks our exploration galley about to make contact with the brown border.
Kazan settler -> settler
Ulaangom worker -> worker
Uliastay worker -> worker
Our palace gets a second floor

Turn 111 330 BC
Galley delivers 2 gospodar into Tosontsengel
4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 archer -> 3/4
4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 archer -> 2/4
3/5 gospodar kills 2/3 archer -> 1/5
Galley returns a nd delivers another gospodar to Tosontsengel
Try to collect and heal gospodars in Han region. We're a bit spread out and teh road system is lousy.
Settler to west coast site, galley confirms Han iron is not hooked up yet.
F4 - no change

IBT Galley sees road appear on iron didn't see a worker ???
Bushi appears out of Xinjian That was quick!
KK settler -> settler

Turn 112 310 BC Southern galley finds a green (Toku) border next to Rajaputani. Settler build Tes near the cows. (that's an easy one )
F4 no change

IBT More Han archers and bushi appear - this guy's production rate is fierce!
Korean regulars - archer and warrior - approach Tosontsengel.
Two new gospodar, a settler and Choyr's barracks

Turn 113 290 BC
Near Tosontsengel:
4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 warrior -> 3/4
3/5 gospodar kills 3/3 warrior -> 2/5

Near Beijing;
5/5 gospodar kills 3/3 archer -> 2/5

Near Shanghai:
4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 bushi -> 2/5
4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 bushi -> 2/5

Two gospodar reach the Han iron hill

IBT Bushi attacks elite gospodar on the Han iron hill and dies -> 3/5
Han archers and bushi move forward.
Korean archers seen approaching
KK worker -> worker - we have enough settlers right now, but we need workers for road system improvements and to chop some forest for fast barracks, harbours etc.

4 new gospodar and a cat produced.

Turn 114 270 BC
Near Tosontsengel:
4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 archer -> 3/4
4/4 gospodar retreats from 3/3 archer -> 2/3
4/4 gospodar kills 1/4 archer
2 new 4/4 gospodar land next to Pusan.

Pillage the Han iron road. Evacuate the 3/5 gospodar to the galley to heal.
Put two gospudar on the Korean iron hill.

F4: Korea will talk, but has nothing interesting to say.
Chosogabe has a monopoly on Construction at 1300 gp

Switch Dalandzadgad to galley

IBTSpot a light green galley in Toku waters.
Toku complain about our galley. OK, we'll leave ... sometime.
We watch a Han galley dock at Tientsin, and an archer appears.
Bushi out of Tsingtao dies attacking 4/4 gospodar on iron hill. Second bushi attacks and our brave gospodar retreats. Archer out of Hangchow attacks 4/4 gopodar and dies. Promotes gospodar to elite.

Turn 115 250 BC
Meet Kwarizmia (twin brother of Xerxes, separated at birth). He has 25 gold and is annoyed. He has iron hooked up, equal techs and 9 cities total. He has a bad rep having allegedly betrayed Toku.

Pop rush the last 20 shields of Dalandzadgad galley. Land another gospodar on the Korean iron and pillage it with an existing unit.4/4 gospodar kills Han 3/3 archer near Tientsin. Scout wanders too close to Nanking and finishes adjacent to ta Han warrior Evacuate second gospodar from the Han iron hill to the galley and move to neutral waters so that they can heal.

IBTBushi kills gospodar on Korean iron hill.
Han warrior kills our scout

Turn 116 230 BC
Near Tsingtao:
Elite gospodar kills 3/3 archer
Elite gospodar dies vs 3/3 arther

Near Hyangsan: 4/4 gospodar kills 3/3 archer with no damage.
Near Nanking: 4/4 gospodar kills the warrior that took our scout.

IBT KK settler -> gospodar (forgot we don't have barracks there )
Tsetserleg worker -> worker
Erdenet riots Whoops! Didn't notice the pop increase.

Turn 117 210 BC
2 more gopodar land on the Korean iron hill.
5/5 gospodar kills 3/ archer near Tientsin
4/4 gospodar kills Han 2/3 bushi near Tsingtao.

At Tatung:
Two gospodars retreat, two more kill the two spears, and Tatung is razed.

F4: Korea and Kwarizmia both have Construction and the price has gone down. However, we would not be able to recover much, as no one except us has any cash.

IBT
Kwarizmia complains about our galley. OK.
3/3 bushi kills gospodar on Korean iron. This must be their only bushi as they have no other iron.
Beijing completes barracks -> gospodar. We can use chops to accelerate.
Baruun Urt completes temple -> barracks
Batshireet completes barracks -> gospodar

Turn 118 190 BC
At Wonsan:
Cat bombs 3/3 footman -> 2/3
4/4 horse kills 3/3 footman -> 2/4
4/4 horse kills 3/3 footman -> 2/4
4/4 horse vs 3/3 footman. Dies -> 1/3
2/4 bushi now defending.

At Chengdu
4/4 horse -> 3/3 archer dies -> 1/3

Forces assemblle at Pusan

IBT
Han 1/3 archer dies vs 3/5 gospodar
Pordce 3 gospodar, 1 cat.
Atlay harblour -> gospodar
Nalayh barracks -> gospodar

Turn 119 170 BC
Move 2 more gospodar to Wonsan

At Pusan:
5/5 gospodar kills 3/3 footman -> 2/5
5/5 gospodar kills 3/3 footman -> 4/5 destroys Pusan

F4:
Several civs have Literature and Construction, some have Construction only. Dealing time.
Chosogabe offers cheapest price for Literature at 188.
Check the power curves in F8 and we buy Literature for 41 gp + peace.
We get Construction from Rajaputana for 89 gp + peace.
Baekje gives us 77 gp for Literature.
So we got Construction and Literature for 53 gp and 20 turn peace deals.

Hire a taxman in Tabriz as it reached pop 8.

IBT Bushi from Wonsan attacks gospodar on the Korean iron and dies.
Archers appear from Han cities and they land an archer next to Tosontsengel.
3 gospodar, 2 workers, Ereen harbour -> barracks

Turn 120 150 BC
4/4 gospodar kills archer at Tosontsengel, promotes to 3/5
Build Hutag next to Han southern iron on river.

Poly and Currency are available.

After action report
I felt I was on the back foot vs Han. Enough gospodar for active defence but never enough to make decisive attacks on their cities. With the iron hooked up they were able to pump a few bushi which were a nuisance, and they had a surprising capacity to produce archers, though some of that was from pop rushing and they're running out of pop. We need to stop them getting their horses hooked up.

Korea is also slow. Our gospodar production rate is slower than I'd like and they take a long time to get anywhere across all our rivers. We now have two galleys plying the straits, and I couldn't fill them both

Lots of elite wins but no leader.

We got Construction and Literature as a two-fer using peace deals and a small amount of cash. It should be possible to do a very similar deal this turn using peace and cash to get to the Middle Ages, buying Poly from Tokugawa for Currency and peace and cash. 20 turns of peace is not going to be a problem even if we want to stay honourable, as we still have to deal with Han and Korea. But I've left that deal for the next better player.

Here's the save Good luck Mistfit.

 

[AlanH]

PS I just landed the two healed gospodar back near the Han iron hill. That'll scare off the worker that's returned to reconnect it. I suggest after the interturn you pillage the road south of the troops to prevent them reaching you in one turn. I should have done that on my previous visit.

 

[Mistfit]

Good turns Alan (even though they looked frustrating) My deck is up and fully operational. I've got it. Will play late tonight and try to post by morning. I'm at work all day today if anyone has the time or the willingness could we get a couple of screenies of our two fronts. Also please post any Ideas or Suggestions for the next 10 turns.

 

[AlanH]

Here you go. Sorry for not including it in my report.

[Edit] PS There's a Korean junk off our south coast. Probably going to try a seaborne invasion with one, maybe even two, units

 

[AlanH]

And close ups. The Han front is wide - part of the problem - so I took two shots of it.

 

[Karasu]

Definitely good progress! Worth waiting ...and disclosing my secrets... for

It is surprising how many units the Han managed to pull out, but that must have been their last effort -at least, let's hope so: I can't look at the save right now, but I would try if at all possible to close the ring around Beijing by capturing, razing or extorting in the peace deal Xinjian, Chinan, Tsingtao and Chengdu.
Then we can concentrate on Korea.

Do you think it is possible to knock Korea with Horsemen only?
And Baekje? Pikemen will be around by that time, I fear.

Assuming the war after Korea will make use of our UUs, we should start planning to build Galleys and units for the upgrade, and look around for our next targets (hmm, here is where map trading would have helped...)

 

[AlanH]

I didn't buy any embassies. but they may be useful to pinpoint the centers of gravity of the next victims. At the moment the Baekje are our obvious next target then there's the mystery brown one, presumably Russia. The others that we know will be reachable as soon as we acquire the Great Lighthouse from the Baekje.

We don't know who's scientific, except Russia, and I seem to recall Korea. The AA techs are now all out there, and we can trade for them now. We can undoubtedly then get access to Monotheism if we can afford it, because that's the freebie in vanilla. We might want to hold off for a two-fer opportunity again, though. Note also that the barb uprisings will have happened, so if we leave dark patches on our continent we could face some big horse stacks. That could be expensive if they raid our gold stocks.

 

[AlanH]

I would try if at all possible to close the ring around Beijing by capturing, razing or extorting in the peace deal Xinjian, Chinan, Tsingtao and Chengdu.

We can currently extort Chengdu and Tientsin. Not good enough, I felt, particularly as we want to raze Chengdu anyway as it's too close to Beijing.

Do you think it is possible to knock Korea with Horsemen only?
And Baekje? Pikemen will be around by that time, I fear.

Pikes need iron, so if we can hold them off their iron we may be OK. We should be able to hook our own iron up in the next turn set. We could then upgrade our warriors to swords (Anda Swords - not UUs) and use them together with horses - better defence plus three attack. That should sort out the Korean spears in short order.

Assuming the war after Korea will make use of our UUs, we should start planning to build Galleys and units for the upgrade, and look around for our next targets (hmm, here is where map trading would have helped...)

Baekje and then Russia, I think. Meanwhile build lots more galleys ready for the jump to the southern lands with the Lighthouse.

 

[Mistfit]

Ok plan of attack for the next 10 (Edited after sugestions)
War Plans:
1.) Keep Han's Iron disconnected and take out the road to the south of the Iron
2.) Get the rest of the 1st ring cities from the Han
Chengdu - Gets razed and replaced North or South of current position
Tsingtao - Keep if not auto-razed
Chiman - Keep if not auto-razed
Xinjiang - Do a drive by and see if it is easy to take.
3.) Sue for peace taking as many cities as possible
4.) Get a beach-head on the Korean island
5.) Once our Iron is hooked start upgrading warriors to Swords
6.) Keep some Gospodar around for barbs


Edit: If i happen to get lucky enough to pull a GL do we for sure want to do the Palace in Beijing? or Great Lib

 

[Karasu]

Looks good.
By looking at the borders, it appears that Chengdu and Chinan will auto-raze while Tsingtao -along with its brewery- won't.
I don't know if it will be worth taking one more step and capturing Xinjiang too -give it a look when you pass by...

About the GL... my first instinct would be to use it for a Palace in Beijing. But then... the Great Library is available and greed would suggest to rush that and do a Palace jump to grab both things.
On the other hand, we have done remarkably well without great library so far, so options are open.

EDIT: Good luck, and have fun with what's left of the Han!

 

[DJMGator13]

Good turns AlanH

I pushed the war with Hans on the prior turnset so I thought you would have to wait to heal and regroup. The Hans threw a surprising number of units at you.

The peace deals you did, they were with civs we were already at peace with correct? This is a fine point that I have not used but have seen players include it in their trading. (Specifically when I played Moonsinger's trading exercise - which we included as a GK2.2 exercise).

As to the Hans iron not showing up as roaded one turn and then appearing the next, I noticed this also with the regular road network while I was attacking in Hans land. I would see Han wariors moving a few tiles and attacking over what appeared to be unroaded tiles. I move a horse to investigate and pillage the road but nothing showed up until the next turn also. I wonder if there is a little glitch?

If we can "light up" all our territory (including the remaining Han area I would go for the Middle Ages.

On using the GLeader (if we get one) rushing the GLibrary or building the new Palace in Beijing are good. I've never done a Palace jump in any of my games, so I would be interested to see that done and allow us to get the two-for as Karasu suggested.

 

[AlanH]

I pushed the war with Hans on the prior turnset so I thought you would have to wait to heal and regroup. The Hans threw a surprising number of units at you.

You did very well. As I said, I think they were pop rushing, and it was a pain that they got the iron hooked up for a few turns. I suspect as long as we keep them of the horsies we'll e in for a smoother ride now.

The peace deals you did, they were with civs we were already at peace with correct? This is a fine point that I have not used but have seen players include it in their trading. (Specifically when I played Moonsinger's trading exercise - which we included as a GK2.2 exercise).

Indeed, and not even on our current visiting list. We don't even know how to reach them safely until we get the Lighthouse, though with their 7 move junks the Japanese seem to have found a route. That applies to the civs I propose we extort the next techs from as well. They don't even seem to mind. A 20 turn peace deal presumably makes them feel secure. You may not even need the second peac deal, as I think if you get Currency you'll be able to trade Currency and Literature for Polytheism.

If we can "light up" all our territory (including the remaining Han area I would go for the Middle Ages.

It makes no difference who gets to the middle ages. We should do the deal now while there's a difference between the tech levesl of our contacts that we can exploit. The barbs will already be swarming without our help, now that two or more have made it.

On using the GLeader (if we get one) rushing the GLibrary or building the new Palace in Beijing are good. I've never done a Palace jump in any of my games, so I would be interested to see that done and allow us to get the two-for as Karasu suggested.

I'd prioritise the Palace ahead of the Library. After the tech trade we can do right now we only need Monarchy, the three first line MA techs and Chivalry. Monotheism is probably available now, since there's at least one, maybe two scientific civs in the MA. The GLibrary would tehrefore only save us a few hundred gp. We can make much more than that with a healthy second core and our beautifully dense low corruption FP core.

@Mistfit: Your question mark on Nalayh is noted. I wondered about it as well, but I think it's better that it's on a river than to force it onto the 5 ring. The odd city off the ring is not a big deal as long as it's outside 5 and not inside.

 

[Mistfit]

@Mistfit: Your question mark on Nalayh is noted. I wondered about it as well, but I think it's better that it's on a river than to force it onto the 5 ring. The odd city off the ring is not a big deal as long as it's outside 5 and not inside.

That being said do we want to raze Xinjiang Seeings that it is in the 7 ring instead of the 8 ring?

 

[AlanH]

Well, we're not short of settlers Since there's a perfectly good 8 ring location on a river, and planting a city on it turns a tundra into a 2fpt tile, I'd say there's a strong case for using one of our settlers there. Razing it leaves a roaded grass tile, I think. [EDIT] Checked the save, and no, it doesn't It's on tundra now. Moving it puts very little food in its 9-tile radius. We'd need extended culture or near neighbours to get any food there.

 

[DJMGator13]

That being said do we want to raze Xinjiang Seeings that it is in the 7 ring instead of the 8 ring?

I checked the terrain type and it is already built on a tundra tile. Alan is correct that the road & irrigation remain when razed but since its already on a tundra I don't know that we gain much by razing it.

 

[AlanH]

I don't think we need to worry too much about the 8 ring. We have 11 cities inside our FP 5 radius, and we'll have 6 or 7 cities in the Palace 5 ring. Including the palace cities themslelvs that takes us close to 20 cities. I suspect by then the OCN will cut in and we'll have partially or totally corrupt cities at or beyond that level.

 

[Mistfit]

Alrightythen...I'm off to see the wizard. I'll play tonight after the chitlens go nighty night and hopefully post by morning. If not tomorrow is my day off so I could finish up in the AM. Of course I'm up in 2 SG's right now, SGOTM may get played 1st.

 

[DJMGator13]

OCN calculator for emporer/large map/ despot or monarch gov is 22

with a FP its 30

w/FP & Rep/Dem its 33