Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

[Mistfit]

I think the difference in the numbers are because of either the version of mapstat you are using or what settings you have it on.

Also some cities that are in jepordy of flipping

 

[AlanH]

Playing, but a bit slowly.

@AlanH: I'm a bit confused about the tile info. Using CRpMapStat, I show that we need 1372 (of visible tiles only, and there are chunks of land not visible yet) for dom. It also shows 1366 unclaimed. Could this be a difference of whether the programs count coastal tiles?

In any case, onward with our steamroller. I don't know if the other civs will last until Military Tradition or not!

Cheers,
nikof

I don't use CRpMapstat so I can't advise, but I know the actual code for JMapstat. It's my guess that once you get to the 80% map visibility level CRpMapstat gives you the full picture on required territory, since the two totals needed match precisely.

I was using approximate numbers for the other stats I quoted. The actual unclaimed according to JMapstat is 387 land + 386 coast = 773. That's a long way away from Dianthus' 1366. The difference is 593, so maybe he includes all the invisible tiles in that number.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

AlanH - Although this has been a bad month for that (and thanks for the reminder ), this one I'm not imagining. In the very first post of the ScoutC thread, We have space and diplo listed as the victory conditions. I could not remeber if it was discussed or not, or if Scout just determined that to be his preferable method for a no-research game.

Apparently Scout just decided, which is why I asked. I am not supposed to go look in the team A thread, so I don't know what they are pursuing.

 

[nikof]

Yikes - yeah, take care Gator.

 

[AlanH]

Here are the JMaptstat numbers to compare with those shown in Mistfit's screenshot:

Total: 3845 - equal
Unclaimed: 773 - CRpMapstat gives 611, I assume that means there are 162 invisible unclaimed tiles.
Mongols: 1192 - equal, no invisible tiles.
Mongols need 1372 to win - CRpMapstat gives 869.
JMapstat is correct as 2/3 of 3845 is 2563.333. 2563-1192 = 1371.333.
The difference between these numbers is 503
Vikings: 233 - CRpMapstat gives 176, so 57 are invisible.
Russia: 298 - CRpMapstat gives 169, so 129 are invisible.
Ottomans: 197 - CRpMapstat gives 166, so 31 are invisible.
Arabs: 224 - CRpMapstat gives 164, so 60 are invisible.
France: 294 - CRpMapstat gives 160, so 134 are invisible.
Neocarthage: 174 - CRpMapstat gives 134, so 40 are invisible.
Minoans: 164 - CRpMapstat gives 106, so 58 are invisible.
England: 137 - CRpMapstat gives 88, so 49 are invisible.
Tokugawa: 68 - CRpMapstat gives 67, so 1 is invisible.
Kwarizmia: 71 - CRpMapstat gives 57, so 14 are invisible.

Total invisible tiles = 735. This is close to 3/2 x 503 - the domination limit difference, but not close enough to account for it completely. I suspect only Dianthus can explain why we have this difference. However, I believe JMapstat when it says we need 1372 to win.

 

[Mistfit]

Either way we have some more 'ing to do

 

[AlanH]

this one I'm not imagining. In the very first post of the ScoutC thread, We have space and diplo listed as the victory conditions.

Well I haven't looked at ScoutC. Why should I? That's not our game, not on the same map, and life's hectic enough for me right now without lurking other SGs.

The first post in ScoutX states only:

Edits:

Variant: No Research

The first mention I find of specific victory conditions in the ScoutX thread that started this thing off is at the bottom of the first page, when Ted Jackson references another SG where zero research space was the chosen variant. So I believe your admirable attempt to build a spaceship on zero research is your chosen option and not a condition of this game. As I say, I'll happily fall in line with it if it turns out we're wrong - specially as I'll be on vacation in 10 days time and can leave the Industrial Age as an exercise for our other players

 

[Mistfit]

As I say, I'll happily fall in line with it if it turns out we're wrong - specially as I'll be on vacation in 10 days time and can leave the Industrial Age as an exercise for our other players

Great Two Gold wingers gone and we are thinking of changing victory conditions mid stream. Oh this should be fun.

 

[mad-bax]

Are you guys short of a player?

If so I'd like to step in, so long as you can put up with me being a bit late from time to time.

 

[AlanH]

Always room for a star We are just enjoying the hey day of the Mongol UUs.

Karasu is away right now until the end of the month. I'm off on vacation in ten days time. We were considering reducing sets to 5 turns each to ease the pain per player, so that means we have another 8-10 sets, maybe more. At our current rate I doubt if it will be done before I go away, so, as Mistfit suggests, I think another experienced player would be good to help us play the end game effectively.

SesnOfWthr has just poked his head over the garden wall from Team C and set the cat among the pigeons by suggesting that we should be limiting our victory options to spaceship or diplo. I don't think it's the case, but that would change our trajectory considerably. We'd find ourselves back in the middle game and requiring some deep discussions about the way forward.

If you'd like to get involved on that basis you have my vote onto the team What say the others?

 

[mad-bax]

Well, I could fill in for Karasu and then for you Alan until you come back, after which I could fade quietly away....

 

[Mistfit]

Welcome MB. I would love to have you join our little band of "wingers" I can only promise you one thing... We will not at you here near as much as elsewhere

 

[AlanH]

No need for a fade out. You'd probably be done by the time I return anyway. If we do have to go the distance for a space launch, we were promised another player who never showed up. So there's no problem with running a roster of seven as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, you need some relaxation

 

[Mistfit]

BTW I think that 5 turns per turn is an excellent idea. It will give each player more time to spend on our 100 plus city Empire. I know that over my last turn-set I probably ignored the MM'ing and city stuff more than I should have. I was just to busy stomping the heck out of anything in my way.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

SesnOfWthr has just poked his head over the garden wall from Team C and set the cat among the pigeons by suggesting that we should be limiting our victory options to spaceship or diplo.

OK, just to clarify, I was NOT suggesting that you should change or alter your game in any way. I was merely asking a question in the beginning. I thought that there was an intent to keep the games at least vaguely similar, which is obviously less possible in your case.

As you so tactfully mentioned, my interpretations have been somewhat lacking lately Alan.

BTW Mad-Bax - I too hope you keep at what you were doing with the GOTM. I have truly enjoyed participating in the games, even if I have inadvertently added to your headaches.

 

[Mistfit]

I've Pm'ed scoutsout. He said he look in here and clarify for us the rules.

 

[scoutsout]

lurker's comment:

I must confess... I have deliberately not surfed this thread ... even though there is no spoiler factor here for me... I plan to surf the "A" and "B" games after ours reaches endgame....Someone PM'd me with a request to clarify "rules" for this "no research" variant. So I'm delurking with my $0.02.

On the variant: Spaceship or UN were noted at the outset as "preferred" victory conditions. Though I'm not one who can claim to be good at interpreting Mad-Bax's intent... it would add some interest to a "No-Research" variant to pursue a research intensive win condition...

Having said that, there is a difference between "preferred" and "mandatory". If you guys can win this thing by domination/conquest/culture (as Temujin?) then by all means, knock yourselves out as far as I'm concerned.

For what it's worth this was our intent, when Brother Bede and I started the PMs that led to "ScoutX":

1) For some warlord/regent/monarch level players to play alongside some stronger players, and benefit from the experience.

2) For everyone involved to have some fun, and widen their social circles.

3) See #1.

With respect to this game, I relenquished anything that resembles "authority" when I handed this team off to Karasu and this team. From that point, it became incumbent on the team to play the team's game, and decide amongst yourselves. In the event of disagreement, Karasu holds the "trump card" vote - he's the team leader here. If Karasu is unavailable... then the other two "gold wing" guys need to put their heads together. That'd be AlanH and Gator. (@Team: Cross your fingers for Gator... Hurricane Charley is going closer to his house than mine...)

Remember, this is your game. All I want is for you to enjoy it, and benefit from it. If you do that... then you qualify for the only award at stake here...whis is... umm...

a big from me.

 

[Mistfit]

Tha t being said what's the team's opinion I temd to agree with Alan on theis one

I really can't see how we could launch a spaceship, but it was interesting to speculate about it for a few nanoseconds

unless you've changed your mind. I will abide by what ever the team chooses.

 

[nikof]

Hi folks. I agree that it's way too late to change to SS launch, we would have been playing a very different style.

@mad-bax: welcome aboard!

Here are my 5 turns. And a terrible confession: I automated the workers. I just couldn't stand it any more, moving them to the next bit of tundra. If I've deeplyoffended anyone's playstyle, I apologize in advance.

Turn 0, 850 AD
- hit enter, completely trusting my teammates.

IBT
- Barbs get regionally intense. Our 3 Muskets kill 13 Barb Horse. Musket promotes to elite (all 3 are elite now). Muskets down to 3 hp each.
- Shanghai Musket-Settler.
- Tsingtao Aqueduct-BH
- Also produce 2 BH, 1 Caravel.
- French building Magellan.

Turn 1, 860 AD
- Russia, Vikings, Arabs, France have NAVIGATION. Russia has 572 gold for her efforts. France asking price 580.
- Bombard stack of 32 Barb Horse. Not sure if Muskets will hold out, but they'll do a lot of damage at least. Move a BH and a Korchin there.
- Capture Arbela, Susa. Temples. Lose a vBH in Arbela to sheer stupidity.
- capture Leptis Minor. Bombard destroys temple. 2 BH promoted.
- Man, that Bombard-Attack-Attack sequence is deadly!
- unload Caravels E of Carthage on to Nora. BH inland, Caravels around S coast to make bridge.
- load Caravel with 3 BH, send towards Toku island.
- Rush temples in 13 conquered cities.

IBT
- Barb War! Muskets kill 2 Warriors, 23 Horse. 2 Musket killed. Turgs kill 16 Horse, 3 Turgs promoted. BH kill 4 Horse, promoted.
- a number of riots. I think WW increased - that or I got lazy & didn't check.
- Vikings & Khwar sign peace.

Turn 2, 870 AD
- Capture Samarkant. Harbor destroyed, no troop losses. Khaz still around, they must have a settler. I suspect Galley in far East - will chase.
- capture Carthage after bombing down to 6 pop. Destroyed Marketplace. No troop losses. Gain 2 workers and a Catapult.
- capture Sabratha. Lose a BH. Get another Catapult.
- I'm Automating (Shift-A) workers back home. Sorry if this offends anyone - but their marginal usefulness and amount of time to manage is just too annoying. Feel free to reverse on your turn.
- Down to 1 Musket on Barb Island, and 45 Horse in striking distance. Time to withdraw, heal, and bring reinforcements.

IBT
- not much, but another candidate for Khaz remnant appears. This one's a caravel (2 defence), so I'll just shadow him.
- Neocarthage Knight lands back near Magna. How cute.

Turn 3, 880 AD
- declare war on TOKU. Land troops on his island, Owase. Capture Mishima. Capture Shizuoka. Oops, missed an island!
- rush Barracks, Sikar, so invasion troops can heal there.
- killing errant Neocarth Knight creates a GL, Tolui! I'm gonna send him home to create Bach's Cathedral.

IBT - not much. Left Catapults undefended, they get captured.

Turn 4, 890 AD
- capture Owase. BH promotes. Leave Owase undefended, head for Ina.
- capture Hippo. Harbor destroyed. Lost a vBH to RGN (not to poor tactics this time, he was attacking a redlined Hopilite.
- get Cats back.
- put GL Tolui on boat for home.

IBT
- both a Viking and a Neocarth settler, with military escort (Galloglass for the Viking) land N of Leptis Magna, at E tip of the ex-Neocarth lands. This should be interesting! I'm inclined to see who wins, let them settle, and capture the city once it reaches pop2.
- Bach's Cathedral built in Paris. Drat.
- Barb Island - Muskets kill 1 Warr, 7 Horses without a scratch, aided by defensive bombardment. And now they can fortify!
- Khwarizmia Spear lands near Kota. Nice to see ya! Bring your Settler friends!
- Viking city of Malmo built on Southern Barb Island. Best of luck...

Turn 5, 900 AD
- bombardment on Barb Island. Move another Musket there. 4th Musket in Caravel waiting to land, which should do it.
- capture Utica. BH promoted. One BH redlined to a redlined Hopilite, but no losses. Leo's Workshop acquired.
- Ferry troops over for Viking Invasion from East. I haven't entered their territory yet. Note the Vikings have Muskets and Galloglass. Should be able to attack by boat from E, and by land from the N via Myrtos (Neocarthage city).

Hand-over
- hey, we can trade World Maps now. Haven't done so yet, for no apparent reason - over to you!
- there are 2 Settlers in New Baruun-Urt, waiting for Barb Island to be pacified. 2 more on the way.
- I've been gradually switching some production to Ordu Archers. Military Tradition still seems like a long way away.
- GL is sitting off Nora. No Wonders available but Copernicus (hah!), so you'll probably want to make an Army with him. I had to recall him from the sea when France built Bach.
- Next priorities look to me like: finish Carthage, invade Vikings, pacify Barb Island. Toku should fall next turn. I wish we had ships with attacking power to track down those pesky Khwarizmia, but I guess we'll have to wait for them to land their settler.
- everyone's probably noticed this already, but wounded BH make amazing cannons! 3 bombard attacks or 2 regular attacks - that's almost an unbalanced unit compared to its peers in this era.
- NOTE: please check happiness in cities, I think I forgot to before saving. Sorry!

Screenies to follow.

The Save, for next, better player

 

[nikof]

Some pictures:

He's such a Great Leader, he walks on water!

The end of Tokugawa approaches.

Defensive Position Bravo, Barb Island.

Troops approach Vikings from the East...
(17 BH, 3 Turg, 2 Korchin, 1 Ordu. Haven't figured out how to right-click and capture a screenshot at the same time yet.)

...and from the North, with a brief stop to visite our Neocarthage friends!
(Ships above Myrtos have 10 BH, 1 Turg, 1 Korchin)

Hordes of Hordes