K 7 - The Zany 'Zerkers' (thanx to meldor)

meldor: you are up. 'x' are city site suggestions, I would think it favorable to plan FP build in Wundersatt in the long run, then jump the Palace out to wherever we need it. Thus. push the center of empire as far into our enemies as you can - th south is ours unless there is a lot of room and another civ out there (but there shouldn't be - I told the guy who created the map I wanted archipelago so 3 or 4 civs max per island and we have room for 5 in view atm already....).
 
If my turns come up during the next couple of days, I won't be able to play them until Monday morning. I'm working double shifts on Saturday and Sunday. Feel free to skip me or move me down in the rotation if that becomes an issue.
 
JR: will move you down if it comes to that ;)



I would like to start a strategy discussion at this point.
Please state what YOU would think a good short-term, mid-term, long-term goal (and why) and how to achieve it. I feel plaing style must be changed from Civ3 a lot since the AIs build so much more troops and react so differently to trade offeres (see my forced trades via peace negotiations!).



my 2 C:

short-term: start massive expansion phase, try to get Great Library
mid-term: expand to fill all, loose build. Tech-parity

long-term: build up money and archers, then mass upgrade for raiding force.



how to get there: expansion via settler - Granary - settler in Trondheim (I'm hoping meldor is doing just that) and Granary - settler and so on in Wunderstatt..Tech: research and stay aggressive! It is surprising what pressing the AI cities with troops without actually attacking can get you!


long-term: we need the Great Library to do the upgrade in the range I imagine - around 30 Archers, which requires 15 Galleys. Getting it should be possible unless it is build first on another continent. Prebuild in Wunderstatt after it's second settler and a Templ (for growth w/o lux%)
 
Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.


long-term: build up money and archers, then mass upgrade for raiding force.


Archers dont upgrade to Berzerkers.

I kinda agree with the idea, being Norwegian and knowing viking history, but it is pretty stupid if the berzerk is based on longBOWman.
 
Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.

long-term: build up money and archers, then mass upgrade for raiding force.


What patch was the game STARTED with?
If started with a release earlier then 1.14, forget it.
They fixed the upgrade path as of 1.14.
 
Originally posted by LKendter



What patch was the game STARTED with?
If started with a release earlier then 1.14, forget it.
They fixed the upgrade path as of 1.14.

:goodjob: What he said. If started with 1.04, I would suggest (gulp) scrapping this game and generating a new map with 1.14, so we can get that excellent archer upgrade. That would be too sad, because this start is absolutely amazing, bonus wise.

CG
 
3000 BC (Pre-turn)
There is so much food bonus around. Switching Trondhiem to settler will only safe 4 turns. I leave it as a granary for now.
(i) Roman archer appears out of the north.

2950 BC (1)
Not much happening. Your plan of great expansion to the south is put on hold, there isn't much there.

2900-2850 BC (3-4)
Nada.

2800 BC (5)
Both cities expand, lux to 10%

2750-2670 BC (6-8)
(I) Wunderstatt finishes Granary starts settler, will switch to military after this

2630 BC (9)
(I) Trondhiem finishes granary starts settler.

2590 BC (10)
Trondhiem grows, lux 20%.

2550-2270 BC (11-17)
Nada.

2330 BC (18)
Kufestadt founded. Starts worker.

2190 BC (19)
Fahrbootstadt founded.

2150 (20)
Settler in place to claim the silks, we need the lux. Its currnet position will require the other city on that caost to be shifted by one, resulting in overlap, but that will be OK. Wunderstatt is building a temple and Trondheim is building another settler. A second ssettler is heading north to found an aggressive city to deny the Romans their silks. If you MM Trondhiem you should be able to get steelrs every 4 turns. We are set to get Mysticismin 1 at -1 but then we can go back one slot and get a positive income.

K7 2150 Saved Game

View of our corner of the world

[EDIT] Fixed map link
 
gothmog is out until tomorrow, if JR or cg can grab the game and play right now then go ahead!



game patch status: since I had a friend set it up he had the editor file and simply imported unit rules into it. As he had adjusted the map there was no difference ;)
 
player order:

JR or cg (up now)
if you do NOT post got it until Monday morning then it is gothmogs turn
gothmog
(JR)
(cg)
me
meldor


meldor: the pic isn't in the uploads2 folder either :(
 
I e-mailed the pic to Thunderfall. I have uploaded it 5 times and it said it was successful. It never appears. :(

{Ediy] Killer, you didn't say if you liked the city names.
 
Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
JR or cg

Got it. I guess I should play 20 turns, is that right? Anyway, I think from now on we should have a definite turn order, because JR or CG could be very confusing. ;)

CG

EDIT: I don't know any German names, at all. If I found any cities, I guess I'll just use the Viking names. You can change them later. :cool:
 
(0) I raise science a few notches so we can get Mysticism in 1 turn at -2gpt, then I'll drop it down again. Just some long term strategizing: looking at our enemies on this island, it seems that we are stuck with two civs with sword UUs. The chances of this happening are so low that I am pretty certain there was some tinkering in this map. Considering that, a sword war would give us 3 attack on 3 defense, which isn't good, or 3 attack up against a 4 counterattack, which isn't good. If we MUST go to war in the swordsmen era, I figure it would be best to go against Persia. I'd rather that not happen, however, so I guess our long term plan should be a massive archer upgrade, colonization on some outer islands, then taking over our mainland in one feel Beserker swoop. Everything looks good, I end the turn.

(1) Sorry, a slip of the mouse and Trondheim riots. I accidentally put lux one lower than I wanted, Damn. Anyway, I noticed a little more tinkering in this map: min science would be 60 turns! :eek: I decide to put sceince for Writing at 39 turns with 3gpt. This huge mininum science is going to cost us, because we'll pretty much have to run around 40% in the early game. Oslo is founded in the SW, I move warrior/settler one over to found on the river in the NE, by Rome, to get the silks. I may be paranoid here, but I think I see some more tampering here. Is it suspicious that every civ on this island will easily get at least one silk resource? And is it suspicious that there are at least 9 silks on this island? :hmm: Maybe.

(2) Settler built in Trondheim, another one due in 4 turns. Meldor was half right about getting a settler every four; if we want to get a settler every four turns, we'll have to go with a no warrior gambit on some cities. I figure that isn't too bad, and we'll put those gambit cities in the south. Newly built settler is headed west. I think Wunderstatt is going to have to be our "worker city" for a little while, because we only two, and workers are precious commodities for a non-industrious civ. Stockholm founded in the NE, right on the border of Rome. I could have made Stockholm a very aggressive city, but that would have involved taking it off the river, so I decided against it. So far we seem to have a slim tech lead.

(3) Nothing.

(4) Fahrboostadt builds a warrior for defense, worker started. We need to develop this city; when the area around it is mined, and it has a temple and is hooked up to luxeries, it gives us a good chance to flip Veii.

(5) Change of plans: I think Kufestadt should be our worker city. It has everything you can dream of one: a cow on grassland, and a wheat on flood plain. Once it gets to size two, and we can work both of these tiles, it will get workers out very fast. Birka built. I think it is about time we modernize our military, so most new cities will build spears when they get the chance.

(6) Our first challenge! Xerxes threatens us. I wish we were allowed to look at civ's techs and such when they demand techs, but we can't. Xerxes demands Cermional Burial. They don't seem to have Immortals yet, so I...refuse. *sigh* He backs down. :o Sorry, Trondheim riots. I now realize what I was missing: it will riot whenever it reaches size 5. Note to everyone about that. Just change one citizen to entertainer, then build the settler from now on. We need to hook up one of those silks, so thats top priority.

(7) Settler built in Trondheim. I guess its time to fill in the south. I start clearing jungle by Oslo, and I'll get a second worker there ASAP so it goes quicker. Its much faster to clear jungle then road.

(8) Nothing.

(9) Xerxes gets Writing. I think its time to run a min sci. I'm not sure how effective this will be, however, since the min science is 60 turns.

(10) Settler built in Wonderstatt, he is sent to the last semi-decent location in the North, on a coastal flood plain, hopefully to churn out workers.

(11) I raise lux to 30%. It barely affect our budget, and will get rid of those annoying near-riots in Trondheim.

(12) The French build Collosus, the Romans cascade to Pyramids. Aarhus built in the hills to the south. A filler city, allow us more units. X-Man is finally willingly to talk to us about getting Writing, and he offers it to us for Cermional Burial, 86, and 19gpt. Yeah, right. Another Settler built in Trondheim, I take a pause from the settler build to get a spearman.

(13) The AI is so stupid when it comes to city placement. They just ruined my oppurunity to get a settler/worker factory so they could settler one tile off the coast and one tile away from a river, in some mountains. I guess I'll settle for a new spot, then, to the north, another flood plain.

(14) Somehow we still need for workers. I would think 6 would be enough, but they somehow are too short. Wunderstatt starts building another one.

(15) Is a half-city worth more than wasted tiles? I guess so. I don't want some coastal grassland to go to waste, so I think we should do a pseudo-ICS in some spots, because we seem to have alot of wasted tiles here and there. Exploration reveals that Rome has more cities than I expected, with a peninsula jutting from what I thought was the coastline by Rome. The price of Writing has dropped to Burial, 123g, and 13gpt. I think if we wait until Rome gets it, it will be affordable.

(16) Wunderstatt goes on a quick infra build, I figure it could use a temple before it continues churning out workers.

(17-20) Stavanger founded, a jungle filler in the south. Odenese founded in the North, on the border of Persia, on a flood plain.

FINAL NOTES: The settler on a GoTo by Kufestadt is headed to that forest tile on the coast. That city could be slightly useful, and I figure we should make the most out of the lands we have, because we aren't going to get any until Beserks, if we go according to plan. Workers by Oslo are clearing jungle, to place a road next. Hope that there is a bonus under there. ;) Persia will give us Writing for Burial, 10gpt, and 165g. You decide what do make of that. If that temple in Wunderstatt was a prebuild, as I think I read somewhere back in this thread, we had no chance to get Lit in time. I definetely think Wunderstatt should be our wonder city (no pun intended ;)), or at least get the GrLib.

Here is the save, I hope it works, I've never uploaded a save before:

K7-Latest Save

I'll post a pic of our map in a little while.

CG
 
Here is the latest map, from the end of my turn. The dark red city is where the settler is going on a Goto order, and the light red cities are spots I was considering:

K7Map.gif


CG
 
nice! it is your, gothmog!

meldor: yep I had a good laugh on the names ;)


player order is:

me
meldor
cgannon64
gothmog (up now)
JollyRoger
 
Just looking over the game, I think we have a small window of oppurtunity to take over Rome right now. They do not have Iron Working or Legions yet, and their best units are archers and spearmen. I think one of the best options right now is to get Writing then try to get Iron Working quickly. Rome is weak (4 cities) compared to Persia (7 cities) and researching tech very slowly. In my turns, they got no techs at all or the same techs as us. This gives us a chance we should capitalize on. If Rome discovers Iron Working before us, I think we should still go to war and take out that Iron source if they have one.

CG
 
cg: good idea! A well-led grup of 6 Swordsmen could take out the smaller cities - and we can let Rome live as a puppet state with ionly the capital (capitals are defended by p to 5 units in PTW - a bit too much with 3 A vs. 2 D). Then, we can build a few Catapults (will need them for coastal defence anyways later), bombard it and then take it over :D
 
Hello All - I'm back and I played the 10 turns too. Since I played them and have a report and screen shot I am going to post them and we can decide what to do. Sorry about this but for some reason I couldn't post to the forum from home, although I could read about every other post and grab the uploads. I'll try to fix that tonight.

Well I never, renegotiating peace with both our neighbors - all right let the games begin!!

Here is what I did...

Preturn: Woah, I have never seen so much food. This suggests to me that we do a dense build, I switch Wunderstatt to settler. I would have put kufestadt somewhere else but that's the fun of a SG. :yeah:

2110 - Trond builds settler - I reduce lux. Move settlers, all three now in position.

2070 - Discovered myst, Persia must have discovered it this turn too :p . I don't want to give Persia CB and their cheap temples + he isn't willing to trade what it is worth anyhow. What next... well we don't need iron working to build archers so I go for math at min. Found Oslo (temple), found stockholm (warrior), found Birka (worker).

2030 - Fahrboot warrior -> temple. Trondheim - temporary scientist to stop riot. Turn sci off.

1990 - Wunderstatt settler -> temple.

1950 - Trondheim settler -> rrack - turn science back to min.

1910 - Kufestadt worker -> temple. Silks now online, turn off lux. Birka switched to temple. Persia starts Pyramids (4 cities and already at it, go ahead build it for us).

1870 - Stockholm warrior -> rracks.

1830 - Trondheim rracks -> archer (in case Rome comes for us, they have an archer and we have aggressive settlements). Persia has writing but wants our first born for it. Bah, who needs ink and parchment anyway? How will that help us pillage? Also they still don't have CB and I don't want to give it to them. No one has any culture at the moment.

1790 - Found Aarhus on west coast (warrior), raise lux to 10%.

1750 - Found Stavanger (worker).

Thoughts: We have 9 cities, Persia has 5, Rome 3. We should be able to just go out and kick some azz now. We may want to change some of the temples to rracks and just build archers and workers for a bit. If we do this we could wipe out both of our neighbors before iron working even becomes an issue (or at least before they hook up any iron). No one has any culture buildings yet anyway.

After looking at cgannon's turns: I am guessing there will be iron at Gordium (those AI's aren't as stupid as they sometimes appear).

IMO: short term - build rracks and archers, kill kill kill. Medium term - build infrastructure and GL, do research for lit and map making. Long term - upgrade archers to Zerkers and continue along the kill kill kill lines.

Well that's it, where do we go from here?

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Berserk-1750BC.zip

and the map: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/1750BC.jpg

1750BC.jpg
 
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