K 7 - The Zany 'Zerkers' (thanx to meldor)

No problem on the temples, only Fahrbootstadt was so far along that I couldn't switch. I do think that workers could have been utilized a bit more efficiently during your turns though. It is nice to stack them in piles able to complete a job in one round. For examle three workers complete a road in one turn, a couple stacks of three will increase our income and road net much faster than 6 lone workers.

That was indeed Rome's only legion. They had not yet hooked up their road network to Veii so they could have only built legions in Veii. Unless they built one there and sent him walking (which I highly doubt).

Finally, I don't think we need many swords - just the two currently being built and maybe a couple more. Remember we want to have archers for upgrading to zerkers later. If we make peace with Rome (for now), the currently available force will be enough to deny Persia any Iron hookups. Then with our superior production base and many barracks it is just a matter of (not much) time. If JR goes right to it I expect him to have taken at least Arbela and Gordium and gotten some techs for peace in his 20. By the time it gets back to me I fully expect Rome and Persia to be distant memories.
 
Originally posted by Gothmog

Finally, I don't think we need many swords - just the two currently being built and maybe a couple more. Remember we want to have archers for upgrading to zerkers later.

Thats sort of what I was thinking: just a few to take those two important cities, and then dealing with archers shouldn't be too hard. I think we should try to find out how many defenders they have (maybe through investigation) so we know how many swords we need.

CG
 
1075 (0)
A treaty is signed between the mighty Vikings and the pathetic Romans. Rome has nothing to give worth taking, but we settle for Antium. It is promptly renamed Tarkenton – some sort of archaic reference to a mighty Viking warrior from the past who could hurl a stone better than anybody, but whose hometown was often sacked. The Romans insist that the evil Gothmog be put in retirement. The Vikings reluctantly agree – and thus begins the reign of JR. To show good faith to the Romans, he changes the emphasis of Viking research from militeristic application (horseback riding) to something a little more scholarly (writing). JR then forgets about the Romans and looks towards a more serious threat – the dirty Persians. Gothmog is sent to Trodheim where he trains the first batch of swordsmen and begins training another. The Temple of Oslo is completed and a barracks is begun. While celebrating the victory over the Romans, a great tale is told about how there is an Oracle at a mysterious place called Mecca. The first question asked of the Oracle is “What do these bull entrails tell us about our people?” The answer is “This is no bullsh*t, but Mecca will be like the bull’s eye, causing our enemies to go beserk.”

1050 (1)
Make a point to keep an eye on iron mountains. Plan is to take Arbela and Gordium and see what is left for an attack on Susa and beyond. Interturn, military units produced.

1025 (2)
Plan to try to build a road across the neutral desert between Odense and Gordium to faciltate troop movement. Part of me wants to take Susa on the way to Gordium, but the most important objective is to deny Persia iron. After that, we can take Persia at our will. Since Birka is at its population limit, begin building a settler to move into area now occupied by Arbela should I get in an autoraze situation. I have let SlayVeii complete the swordsman it was building. See no compelling reason to abandon it just yet. There is no tile sharing situation that I cannot work around and I have no problem with the potential downside while letting SlayVeii build troops.

1000 (3)
One millinium left until the end of time. It looks like Persia may be interested in tangling with Rome. Meanwhile, our troops are getting in position to attack Arbela. Trondheim can build a swordsman every 3 turns and Wunderstatt can build a swordsman every two. Thebes completes the Pyramids, a clear sign that the world will self-destruct in 1000 years. Persia moves unprotected workers onto both iron mountains.

975 (4)
A few turns from being ready for war. Resist the temptation. If Persia protects its workers on the mountains, it will means less defense within the town itself. Will wait until my stack is together. Move a spearman into Persian territory next to Gordium. Will place on neutral mountain and then take worker (if unprotected) on the turn that the war begins.

950 (5)
One turn from declaring war and moving troops in. Primary invasion force ready to go. Swordsmen not close enough to the action headed towards Susa/Gordium region. Will be able to respond to either pattern of conquest – Arbela/Susa/Gordium or Arbela/Gordium/Susa. Barracks of Oslo completed. Persia moves archer/warrior pair near Tarkenton which is defended by a veteran spearman.

925 (6)
Ask Persians to remove troops or declare war. They declare war. My peaceful builder reputation stays intact. Capture worker on each iron mountain. Persia invaded. Warlust inspires people to greater happiness. Arbela expected to be attacked on the next turn. One of our workers is captured. MyVeii completes barracks. A mysterious border appears across the water to the southwest of Fahrbootstadt.

900 (7)
We attack Arbela. Our swordsman defeats a spearman, our archer defeats a spearman, and our elite archer defeats an archer. No units on our side lost. Arbela was only population 1 so it is destroyed. We have a settler on the way to the region. A settler in Arbela converts to two workers for us. We recapture our captured worker. Whip production of spearman in Tarkenton. That border is apparently the Celts. We make contact. They have horseback riding (the only tech they have that we don’t). They have iron, but not horses. They have incense, but no extra incense. They have 34g. Will wait until we have writing to see if they are isolated or if they know anybody. We are four turns from writing. We lose one archer during Persia’s attack. Rome is trying to send a settler/spearman/warrior trio to found near the iron. They lost their chance at a wonder when the Pyramids were built. Guess that gambit failed. Tarkenton survived an attack and is now defended by two spearmen.

875 (8)
What to do about Rome? Decide to let them to do as they please for now. We can make sure they don’t get iron hooked up and polish them off once Persia is weakened. We have twelve more turns of peace with them anyway. Will give us something to do during the 20 turns we are at peace with Persia. Position troops for attack on Susa on the next turn. Road is in place to quickly get to Gordium thereafter. Persia is sending in warriors. Tarkenton loses a spearman from attack by Persian archer.

850 (9)
Susa captured. Renamed Susa-Elen (after Sue Ellen – JR’s wife on the tv show “Dallas”). Contains a barracks We lose one swordsman. It was defended by two spearmen. Troops moved into position to attack Gordium on next turn. Enough troops mingling around to maybe consolidate and launch an invasion into the heart of Persia. Mystics learn the secret of writing. Research set for literature.

825 (10)
Attack Gordium. Does not go well. Lose four archers and only take out one spearman. Reinforcements will attack in two turns. Persia willing to make peace, but I’m not ready. They have map making, but no other tech that we don’t. The Celts and Persians have contact with the Greeks and Chinese. The Celts don’t want to give up horseback riding for writng. Will try to extort communications from Persia after I am ready to make peace. We have our first elite swordsman in an offensive battle in the war zone near the central iron mountain. Rome founds Neapolis near central iron mountain. Persia petitions us for peace, but is unwilling to give up map making.

800 (11)
Move reinforcements outside of Gordium. Should be able to take on next turn. Doing a little bit of pillaging in inner Persia. After Gordium, want to sue for peace and align forces to polish off Rome, so I don’t expect to take any more Persian cities after Gordium. That will be left for a second war with Persia. The positive happiness effects of the war have disappeared. Have to move luxury slider back to 30% from 20%. We lose a spearman and archer that were pillaging near Persepolis. Rome moves a spearman and warrior up onto the iron mountain, but no worker yet. Rome becomes upset by our elite archer hanging around Neapolis.

775 (12)
Gordium destroyed (it was population 1) by two swordsmen. One of them is promoted to elite. Basic objectives with war with Persia achieved. Now it becomes a matter of getting the proper price for (temporary) peace while being in a position to succesfully knock Rome out of the game and horde all the iron to ourselves. Persia can then be reduced to rubble. Hopefully, they won’t get iron through harbor trade. Begin to consolidate on neutral hill between Persepolis, Neapolis, and Susa-Elen. Persia now has code of laws, but not common sense enough to give up map making. One of our elite swordsman was killed off by an archer. Our swordsman was on a hill and across a river.

750 (13)
We avenge the death of our elite swordsman by killing off the offending archer. Our attacking swordsman gets promoted to elite. Aarhus completes temple. I was hoping to have had map making and converted project to a harbor, but it was not to be. Rome has abandoned defense of the iron mountain.

730 (14)
Advancing troops toward Persepolis. Sidon, Persia has a harbor. Don’t think they will be able to trade for iron, but keeping an eye on their resource box each turn.

710 (15)
Still advancing.

690 (16)
Now on the footsteps of Persepolis. Persia has horseback riding, but of course, no horses. Our elite archer is killed off by an onslaught of Persian archers. It was protected by a spearman, but the spearman substained significant damage during the the first archer attack.

670 (17)
Persepolis captured. Was defended by three spearmen, a warrior, and an archer. We lost one swordsman and two of our archers were promoted to elite. Six workers captured. Persian capitol moves to Antioch. Persepolis comes equipped with a granary. Someone sold communications with us to the Greeks. The Persians, Celts, and Greeks all have mathematics. Only the Perians have map making, which they are now ready to surrender. Still, we’re fishing for a great leader for the Great Library (literature is four turns away) and we might as well keep warring for now. Persepolis survives counterstrike. Temple of Stavanger complete.

650 (18)
Another archer promotes to elite. We are probably powerful enough to take on Rome and still keep at war with Persia when our 20 turns of peace ends with Rome. SlayVeii riots. Knew I should have abandoned that town.

630 (19)
Consolidation.

610 (20)
Nothing significant, except I accidently moved an archer into Roman territory. Literature is one turn away and we have enough troops to wipe out Rome and keep on with Persia. If we can get one of the elites to produce a great leader, we can rush the Great Library and have no need for a Persian technology surrender. My biggest fear is that the unknown world could be garnering a tech lead.

As mentioned, JR foolishly orders a group of archers into Roman territory thus delaying a renewed war with Rome by one turn. From out of nowhere an arrow finds it target and the reign of JR ends. The only question left is who shot JR?

Zany Zerkers - 610 BC
vikings-610_BC.jpg
 
Working on getting the map posted. Probably built too many swords (didn't read the thread after I got the game). Maybe overdid it with all military - but the island is now ours for the taking.

Edit - having trouble even accessing the uploads collection. Looks like there may be a problem. Will try again when I wake up tomorrow.
 
JR, looks good. If too many swords is our biggest problem then we have no problems, I await the screenshot to be sure. I do think we should extort techs (and maybe communications, and a WM) for peace from Persia once they are down to a couple of cities, that will help us not fall behind with the unknown world. Thus we should research only techs they don't already have. They have MM, CoL, and Math right? At that point it will not matter if Persia does manage to trade for some Iron, our homeland will be secure.

The GL would be nice but is not a game breaker, "we haf ways of making you talk" (insert bad german accent here).

Do we want to put our FP on our home continent or save it for another continent? If we move our Palace to, say, around where arbella was that would cover most of our home continent nicely and we could save the FP for another core.

Finally, cg played before me, I would think it is your turn now 'Killer', but you the man so what you say goes.
 
gothmog: NEVER build the FP off the home island! It will always be our strong core - while the Palace can be moved around from island to island as we conquer along!

I also suspect we have a large island closeby - at least close enough to already have contact AND with 3(?) civs on it. I'd jump the Palace there during the conquest that is sure to come AFTER building ('by hand' the FP close to Trondheim.........
 
Interesting, never build the FP off the home island (first off I never say never :lol: ). I have only played on a huge map once and never (there I go again :lol: ) on a larger than huge map so maybe that is where this strategy comes from but...

It seems to me that you want your two cores to be fully developed. If you keep moving your Palace around (I am guessing you use leaders to rush them? your pseudonym gives you away) haven't you moved it to a less developed position? And you have wasted a leader to boot. It seems to me that you will never have more than two cores and that you should have them both fully developed. Once that is done what is the advantage of moving your Palace?

OTOH: it doesn't matter to me whether we jump out Palace or build our FP near the center of our home island. Although there is some advantage to having both on our home island while we scout out another island for our second core.
 
The server went down last night before I could confirm that my game link was valid. If the link doesn't work when the server comes back up, the game is at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Berserk -610 BC.zip and the screen shot of the map is at . . . /vikings-610 BC.jpg.

Maybe we should gamble with a Great Library pre-build (we can always change to the FP if we get a Great Leader or get beat to the punch on the Great Library). Probably should have thought of that halfway through my turns, but I was overconfident that I would get a great leader and be able to report that the Great Library or FP is ready to rush as soon as we get literature.

Techs we are behind - Mapmaking, code of laws, horseback riding, and mathematics. We will have the exclusive on literature in one turn.

Summary of war - Got Antium for peace with Rome. Destroyed Arbela & Gordium (population 1 autorazes). Captured Susa and Persepolis. Troops roughly in place in two spots (and in sufficient numbers) to continue war with Persia & redeclare against Rome. Settler fortified in Susa - ready for use when the opportunity arises.

The X-man was stubborn in regards to terms of surrender. The best he was willing to give was {map making and contact with the Chinese} or {horseback riding & mathematics}. I did not try to negotiate at the end of the last turn, so maybe he will give the change in leadership more respect. He brings a lot of archers out into the open which are easy pickings for elites in our quest for a Great Leader.

Rome has nothing, but they beat me to the punch when they founded Neapolis near the central iron mountain. They have just now moved a worker to the iron mountain (unprotected), but Neapolis should fall easily and we have a settler close to the action (fortified in Susa).

I mainly cranked swordsmen from Trondheim & Wonderstandt and archers from everywhere else. If we have excess swordsmen, I'm sure we can use them up against Persia and Rome or in an early naval invasion (even if its just pillaging) before we get berserkers. They also upgrade to ME, but obviously the archer to berkerer upgrades would be the priority.
 
gothmog: once you have built up an area with courthouses, temples, libraries and marketplaces, maybe cathedrals, corruption is low enough that the place can pay itself and still produce troops. So you can then move the Palace away again and give 'developmental help' to other areas.

This especially works one factories and rail come into play :D

You end up with two real cores and a lot of corrupt, but self-supporting land - which means you cna outproduce even AIs with more land than you since they will have two cores at most and a lot of corruption swamps.........

And the leader: what else should I use them for? Wonders get build (pre-built) in my two cores, I often have three or more towns capable of out-producing the AI given a slight tech advantage :D




I played a lot of large and huge maps and always used this method - it works just fine and you can secure towns you captured with the palace against CF. I once had a town flip 3 times with 4 wonders in it - well, got a leader and it was MINE for the rest of the game :D
 
The CF protection is a good point, although there are other ways to deal with that. I think this may also be a good stratagy on huge maps where you have huge empires. You do lose alot of production and cash when you move the Palace before you rebuild your infrastructure around it, as well as the use of the leader, so I am not sure about the net affect vs just disbanding units and cash rushing in your new areas, which is what I typically do, especially in a shortish game. Also there are city improvements I build near a palace that I wouldn't build in a corrupt area (e.g. university or sometimes even library depending on corruption level). This also depends on your state of happiness as WLTKD's really help lower shield corruption. My gut tells me that on a standard or smaller map this is not your best move. I am undecided about a large map, and I am hoping to find out during this game what happens on a huge map! This is one reason I like SG's.

Also I don't seem to get many leaders. In my current SP game I am in a infantry war and have had maybe 50-75 elite victories. The only leader I got was after a lone infantry with one hitpoint well in the kill zone promoted after an attack, then produced a leader, then was killed off by a rifle. :rolleyes: If I did get leaders I would use them in the typical ways, armies, rush wonders, rush factories in my corrupt areas, etc. I also use the prebuild but never (whoops) for all the wonders, just the critical few. Because I play at diety I almost never have a tech advantage until after I get ToE.
 
gothmog: I agree that small maps make it a bad move. But here we are talking cash-rushin tens of cities per island - not good. Also, i find universities very usefull even at 50% corruption (as long as the town can pay itself, that is) because of the culture they give :D

again: this is for large and huge maps, and it is also a waste of leaders IF you have wonders to build. As for the happiness: Sistine Chapel is a pivot point in that strategy: get it and presto, you earn like crazy.....

btw, the loss in tax and prod tends to be lihgt as I usually put the FP right next to the old capital (Wunderstatt or Stockholm here) or a slightly better place. Only the second jump, to a far-away island, may seriously dent the budget.
 
Yes it is the second (and presumably third and possibly forth or fifth) that I was refering to. Actually you gain a bit before the second jump because using my strategy I would save the FP for the second core, while with yours you have both the FP and the Palace on your home island before you jump the Palace. In most cases I would think you will gain more than the FP costs in the meanwhile due to lowered corruption in your home island.

I think given our current set up that your strategy is best, I hope to learn about its vagrancies as well.

Also, I am guessing this strategy works better on Emporer. On diety you need to be very frugal and usually are comming from behind. Building a FP once is a huge chore and twice is often out of the question.
 
I tried using a palace jump in games with larger maps, but found it not the way to go for me. I may move the palace once, if I don't get a leader to build the FP and have to build it close to the palace. After that it is just as well to cash build in the new area. This is especially true after flight is discovered, as I then just use the production in the core and airlift it to the front. At hihger levels, the production drop at the old spot is just too much to pay, for an increase at the new spot, when you have to rush build the infrastructure anyway to get it going fast enough. Of course this also means that I will use the late game leaders to rush factories or such in areas close to the fighting. I use them the instant they come, if I can, so I can get another on the same turn if possible. I have had up to three leaders generate in a single turn (this was on a huge map, attacking 10-15 cities a turn).
 
meldor: I agree that if the wars go fast you can do that. However, seeing as we will conquer using Caravels as transports, then Galleons for quite a while I still think it can be a good idea to have the capital close to the front (and we can after all use the many leaders we (hopefully) will get to jump the palace back 'where it belongs' after a conquest is completed.

I palyed a similar berserk game on an even larger map and found that WITH jumps I didn't have to fear flipping at all :D
 
Interesting thoughts on the FP issue. I thought about getting a headstart on the Great Library in Wonderstatt, but thought of what would happen if we got a Great Leader to rush with or got beat to the build by somebody we haven't met yet. My thought was the alternative would likely be the FP and I thought I would get permanently banned from the SG forum if we got in a situation like that. Now I see why it could have a been a good (or at least not so bad) thing.
 
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