KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race

[DJMGator13]

Preturn - 1050AD
wake eCav from Ibabanago move kill the redlined Infantry in Delhi
wake another eCav attack vImpi - we lose
wake vCav from Gergovia attack 3/5 eImpi - we win and capture Delhi with Leo's, Copernicus & Great Library

rush Library in Madras
switch all scientist to taxmen - Mass Production still in 1 @ +247gpt

IBT -

Turn 1 - 1060AD
turned animations on
Learn Mass Production set to Motor Trans.
WW causes Orleans to riot
sci to 100% Motor Trans in 4 turns

I bomb Kolhapur perimeter and build a fortress

Some workers are automated / moved too fast to locate them
switch all military builds (about 6 of them) to infantry no need for militia or cavs at this point since they do not upgrade

IBT - ZUL kill a cav and capture about 5 or 6 workers near the front / they also move a few troops towards Delhi

Turn 2 - 1070AD
Our offensive military is down to 1 knight,11 cavs, 4 Infantry, 8 militia & 14 artillery / we are "WEAK" against everyone
some dyes become available to trade so I sign OTTO up in a MA vrs ZULU giving the dyes and gaining 11gpt
unautomate a few workers
Sitting back and waiting for tanks to do any more attacking

Question: is there a way to get trade details in Civ III like in C3C ?

IBT - AMR & ZUL sign trade embargo against us

Turn 3 - 1080AD
I found some but there are still a few automated workers
sci down to 90%
mostly worker moves

IBT - OTTO advances on Kolhapur

Check this out:

BTW, I said no, I think I'd rather have Hoover Dam than a hospital.

Turn 4 - 1090AD
Trade: furs & dyes to AZT for 33gpt
Increased our military up to 9 Infantry - we are now AVG to ZUL, AMR & AZT, still weak to the others
Trade: Mass Production to OTTO for Wmap, 1000gold & 137gpt
Trade: Refining to AMR for 5 gold & 3gpt - just to play with their trade embargo
Trade: Steel to AZT for 30 gold & 21 gpt
JPN still won't talk - real tempted to sign MA with the other civs there to attack Japan

IBT - JPN ironclad and a galley near Seville

Turn 5 - 1100AD
learn MOTOR TRANS set to RADIO (after trade with OTTO) @90% in 6 turns
considering OTTO can probably learn MOTOR TRAN in about 5 to 7 turns I go ahead and trade it to them - time to separate us and them from the rest of the pack
TRADE: MOTOR TRANS to OTTO for Wmap, 500 gold & 306gpt
In a recent game I played the AI went for Flight (7200) before Radio (8000), so I set our research to Radio and hope to trade for flight with OTTO
Start Barcelona on a prebuild for UN
change all military builds to tanks

IBT - JPN ships closer to Seville

Turn 6 - 1110AD
produce our first Tank

IBT - cool beans - AZT declares war on JPN / OTTO captured Calcutta a few turns ago and seem to be sending all their troops home??

Turn 7 - 1120AD
JPN will finally make peace I gain their Wmap
produce 3 more tanks

Kolhapur
artillery wounds 2 infantry and a riflemen
vTank vrs 2/4 vInfantry - we win flawlessly
vTank vrs 3/4 vRifle - we retreat inflicting 1hp
vTank vrs 2/4 vRifle - we retreat
vTank vrs 2/4 vRifle - we win and promo
eCav vrs 1/3 rInf - we win and capture city - set to starve

IBT - AZT & OTTO sign a MA vrs ZUL

Turn 8 - 1130AD
8 cities riot due to WW - raise lux to 10% and hire a few clowns
sci to 80% still in 3 turns

IBT - watch OTTO attack Intombe

Turn 9 - 1140AD
WW - all 8 cities back under control - only 1 new one riots (WW at 37% there)

Intombe
artillery - redline 2 Inf and leave a 3rd at 2/4
vTank vrs 2/4 vInfantry - we retreat inflicting no damage
vTank vrs 2/4 vInfantry - we die inflicting no damage
vTank vrs 2/4 vInfantry - we finally kill it
eCav vrs vPike - we win down 2 hp and produce a Great Leader [dance]
vTank vrs 1/4 vInfantry - we win flawlessly
eCav vrs 1/4 vInfantry - we win flawlessly and capture city

WW increased in some cities after capture of Intombe - had to adjust for the second time this turn

Stopped here to see what we want to do with the great leader

Notes to next player
1) Great Leader is in Delhi with all it's movement point
2) Our max sci is now at 1637bpt at 100%
3) We are 2 turns from Radio and 17 turns from a 1000 shield Palace in Barcelona
4) Upcoming great wonders include - the UN, SETI and Internet - we need UN to control the vote and SETI for research
5) WW is starting to run between 30 - 40% - we need to make peace soon, but there are still some cities available

1140AD save

 

[Karasu]

Good going

The game rolls now to Alan -what will we do with the gl? Shall we freeze it for the first available wonder?

 

[Mistfit]

Great turnset Gator. Way to stomp those Zulu!

Edit we sould probably pick up Silks from the Japanese and Spices from the Aztec.

 

[Tomoyo]

Great turns!

The GL should be saved for SETI (so we can decide where it is, I assume Entremont is out highest gold city?), but we want Manhattan Project to break the cascade to the Internet.

 

[AlanH]

Got it.

The Japanese want over 80 gpt plus lux for silks Not sure if it's worth it. We're only at 10% lux right now. Aztecs will sell spices plus 38 gpt for Atomic Theory. That's got to be a good deal, and it's enough to kill the lux tax. So the silk deal is not going to save anything - maybe put a few entertainers back to work for a small gain, but nothing like 80gpt.

Ottomans will get Rocketry at the start of the next era. I assume we should be able to trade for it if we head for Computers? We may need some cash in hand to sweeten the deal - another reason not to give the Japanese anything for silks right now.

We have two pre-builds running - a Palace in Barcelona and Battlefield Medicine in Aldea. Both are in early stages. Holding the leader for SETI sounds a good idea, but it means we get no more leader opportunities for maybe 10 turns, depending on whether we have to research Flight. That's probably how long we'll be at war, one way or another. After that we may not get more leader farming opportunities, unless the Ottomans turn nasty. Toledo is our highest beaker city, but that's because it has Newton's as a multiplier. Entremont has the highest base gold output so it should get SETI as Tomoyo says.

I'll play tomorrow - too late tonight.

 

[Mistfit]

Once we are into Space Part Building mode will the AI discover any of the needed techs for us? If not we could take all of our non Space Industry cities and build tanks and beat up on the Otto's for leaders. Just a thought....A war mongering thought...but a thought none the less. Have fun Alan.

 

[DJMGator13]

Battlefield Medicine is only a 500 shield build. So not the greatest prebuild but will be helpful.

I've only done a few space victories, but it looks like saving Battlefield gives us another prebuild to use later for the parts.

Here is a breakdown of the shields needed to build our spaceship
2 @640 shields
4 @320 shields
4 @160 shields

I like Mistfit's leader farming idea and if we capture their capital they would have to start their space build over again. If we go that route we will need fighters on the front lines to offset the bombers and we should build a navy to bombard their coastline and stop any 3rd party ships from landing troops.

 

[Tomoyo]

In my space race games, I have found that the only shield cost that matters is the last one. I usually wait for the tech, not the shields. Leaders for the wonders will be nice though.

 

[nikof]

Back home, back on-line. Looks like I have some reading up to do! Before I went through the time warp, bows and arrows were considered very sophisticated...

 

[Mistfit]

Welcome back nikof! Glad to have you back safe and sound.

Edit:

Battlefield Medicine is only a 500 shield build

Appollo is a 500 shield wonder

We are 2 turns from Radio and 17 turns from a 1000 shield Palace in Barcelona

UN is 1000 shield wonder
Seti is 1000 shield wonder

With the Great Leader and 2 Prebuilds We should be able to build all of these as soon or very close to the time they are available to us.

I guess I would try to go Computers (SETI use up that leader) - Rocketry and then Fission as order of techs. This sound right?

 

[AlanH]

Rocketry should be avaialble from Ottomans. That'll be their freebie. We should research Computers for SETI then Fission, and hope to trade for Rocketry.

 

[Karasu]

How about the Sox?

 

[nikof]

Yay Sox!
(Hey, I've been a Raptors fan since they started in Toronto, so I'm always happy to see perennial losers win something! )

 

[AlanH]

1140 AD Preturn

F4 - We and Ottomans are at war with the Zulus and Japan is at war with Azeca
Zulus have 7 cities left, won't give us any for peace.
Aztecs offer 37gpt+23gold+WM+spices for Atomic Theory. I take it to help with happiness.
Japan has silks but wants our first-born for them.

F1: Slider 3.7.0 for Radio in 2 turns. Fire some entertainers and taxmen. Retrain some as scientists. Make sure ex-Zulu cities are starving. Cancel a few courthouse orders in towns where corruption will never get down from 100%. Change some to workers, artillery, one to market one to settler. We can rejoin the settler and workers to productive cities with hospitals. Net 717gpt.

Move Leader into Entrmont where he should build SETI when we get Computers.

IBT:
Ottomans and Zulus fight it out. We seem to be unscathed.
We lose gems! Must have missed that expiring deal? Riots everywhere.
Tomoyoton tank->tank
Burdigala hospital->barracks
Villalanh factory->hospital
Palma market->factory

1150 AD
Iroquois offer gems+17gpt for Electronics and dyes. I take it.
Upgrade captured cat for 60

@Tugela: Cant get the artillery in range because Ottoman units are in the way.
4/4 tank approaches city and finds there's only a conscript infantry on top. Kills him, losng one HP, and takes Tugela The Ottomans left that one set up nicely for us . It has 5 resisters and a barracks.

Move workers forward to road and rail. Advance troops towards Mpondo. Don't know whatthe problem was with building rails in enemy territory. I was able to do it.

IBT: Ottomans move away. heading for other Zulu cities.
Learn Radio, start Flight.
Entremont and Verulamium tans->tank
Madras worker->worker
Lugdonum barracks->tank
Order breaks out everywhere.

1160 AD
Roads built, Artillery move forward and bombard Mpondo from pop 7 to pop 4, wounding al defenders.
5/5 tank and two 4/4 tanks kill 3/4 rifle, 2/4 rifle and 1/4 infantry, all with no damage. Capture Mpondo

Slider 0.10.0, cant get flight below 5 turns. +317 gpt
Ottomans and Japan both have Amphibious Warfare, and Radio. We chose wrong
Move troops to threaten Hlobane nest turn.
Build some roads towards Ottoman cities. Move workers into Ottoman lands to complete rail links for use later.

IBT: Ottoman complain about our workers. We point out that they are only on a traning exercise and he remains gracious.
Iroquois and Ottomans sign a MA vs Zulus.
Madrid, Murcia tanks->tanks
Pollution at Barcelona
Burdigala and Vittoria barrack->tanks

1170 AD
@Hlobane:
Artillery not in range, so out tanks have to do it all.
4/4 tank retreats from 4/4 infantry->3/4
4/4 tank retreats from 4/4 infantry->3/4
4/4 tank retreats from 3/4 infantry->3/4
4/4 tank dies vs 3/4 infantry->1/4
4/4 tank killks 1/4 infantry->1/4
4/4 tank killks 4/4 rifle->1/4
5/5 cavalry kills 1/4 infantry and captures Hlobane with 3 cats.

Upgrade cats for 180 gold.
Shortrush tank at Verulamium for 56 gold
Hurry temple at Kohlapur for 104 gold
Slider 0.10.0 for 153 gpt. Looks like one of out gpt deals with Ottomans expired.

Move troops towards Isandawanda

IBT Ottomans capture Isandawanda (sp?)
Entremont, Verulamium, Tomoyoton tanks->tanks
Kolhapur temple->barracks
Asturias factory->barracks
VAlencia hospital->tank

1180 AD
@Swazi:
Bomb from pop 6 to pop 2 and redline defenders. Cavalry kill three defenders flawlessy and capture Swazi
Troops advance on Zimbabwe

IBT Ottomans attack Zimbabwe without result
Mohacs, Mistfitzia factory->tank
Camulodonum courthouse->destroyer
Toledo, Ciudad tank->tank
Avignon factory->barracks

1190 AD
@Zimbabwe:
Again, artillery can't keep up, tanks go it alone.
5/5 tank kills 4/4 infantry->2/5
4/4 tank retreats vs 4/4 infantry->2/4
4/4 tank kills 2/4 infantry->3/4
4/4 tank retreats from 4/4 musket, no damage
4/4 tank kills 4/4 musket->3/4 and takes Zimbabwe

Position troops and artillery for Ulundi

Slider 4/6/0 for Flight in 2 turns 685 gpt

IBT Ottomans demand TM+100 gold. I decline, hoping he might declare. He backs down. Ottomans attack Ulundi without result

Entremont, Ligdonum, Burdigala tank->tank
Marseilled factory->destroyer
Besançon worker->worker
Asturias barracks->tank

1200 AD
@Ulundi: Bomb defenders to 2 HP or less
4/4 tank dies vs 2/4 infantry->1/4
4/4 tank retreats vs 2/4 infantry, inflicts no damage
4/4 tank kills 2/4 infantry->3/4
4/4 tank kills 1/4 infantry flawlessly and promotes
4/4 tank dies vs 1/4 infantry, promotes him->2/5
4/4 tank kills 2/5 infantry->2/4
4/4 tank kills 1/4 infantry->3/4 and captures Mpondo

The Zulu are no more. The trade embargo against us by America ends.
Hurry temples in Intombe and Hlobane for 96 each.

WW ends.

IBT:
Learn Flight, start Computers
Madrid, Verulamium, Murcia, Valencia, Tomoyoton tank->tank
Hlobane, Intombe temple->barracks
Avignon barracks->tank
Ibanega, Liverpool worker->worker
Djorm-gator factory->tank
WLTKD all over the place

1210 AD; Slider 0.10.0 and max scientists for Computers in 6 turns +95gpt
Ottomans give 2563 gold+102gpt+WM for Flight.Ottomans give 36gpt for dyes.
Japan gives silks+40gold+WM for Flight
Ottomans now have Rocketry as expected, but won't sell.

IBT:
Entremont, Mohacs tank->tank
Canterbury market->factory
Gergovia temple->market
Casa del Nikofa harbour->destroyer

1220 AD:
Hurry temples in Ulundi, Zimbabwe, Tugela, Mpondo, Swazi (508 gold)

IBT
Hurried temples complete. Start herbours on coast, tanks and barracks elsewhere as appropriate.
Toledo, Ciudad, Burdigala tank->tank
Villalanh hospital->barracks

1230 AD zzzz

IBT:
Entremont, Lugdorum, Verulamium, Tomoyoton, Mistfitzia tank->tank
Agendicum marke->aqueduct
Besançon worker->worker
Ternuel barracks->tank

1240 AD zzzz. Workers work

IBT
Entremont, Murcia, Mohacs, madras, Asturias tank->tank
Villananh barracks->tank

WLTKD ends everywhere We lost spices without notice.

1250 AD
Workers do stuff.

After action report:

Next better player might want to negotiate a spices deal with Japan, but I suggest waiting until Computers in 2 more turns. You ought to be able trade for Rocketry, unless we're unlucky and Ottomans have researched it by then as well. And you may be able to do a deal for spices with Japan then.

I've built up our tank force, and there are a few destroyers in build, but we're still weak vs. Ottomans. My thoughts are we wait until we've done a deal for Rocketry, then position to attack him from east and west borders for a short, brutal war. We'll get a pounding from his navy, but so what? We have plenty of workers, we can just rebuild our rails. We should probably do it asap before he's built up too much air power.

Our Leaer awaits patiently in Entremont to build SETI.

Here's the save.

Have fun.

 

[DJMGator13]

Sounds good.

On the deal expiring, how can you see the turns remaining in Civ III? Or even cancel a deal that is past the 20 turns?

Just a thought (w/o looking at the save)
After we build up more military would a ROP abuse be in order against OTTO? Try to garb a bunch of cities real quick and then sue for peace?

 

[AlanH]

Status of all existing deals with a civ is shown in F4 if you click the right hand button when in the negotiation screen for that civ. I'm not in front of it now, but I *think* the two buttons are called New and Existing. New is what you are usually looking at when you open the screen, and Existing lists the deals you have in the order of increasing expiry time. Expiry turns are shown in brackets after the first line of each deal. Subequent lines list additional per-turn items included in the same deal. The first items in the list are any expired deals, and a peace treaty if it has no defined duration.

You can cancel any expired deal (one with no turns count in brackets) by clicking on it. That eliminates it from Existing immediately (except you get an Are you sure ... if you click on an indefinite Peace treaty.) It then puts it in the New deals window for you to renegotiate or remove.

 

[AlanH]

Just a thought (w/o looking at the save)
After we build up more military would a ROP abuse be in order against OTTO? Try to garb a bunch of cities real quick and then sue for peace?

Might be worth it, though I would think we'll have enough tanks in a few more turns to it as a straight invasion. There seems to be a minimum number of turns before you can talk to a new enemy, so I don't think you'd get back to the negotiating table in fewer than 4 or 5 turns anyway. And none of the Ottoman cities are very far from our borders. We can only use it once, unless we negotiate RoP with several at the same time and abuse it within 20 turns. If we don't use it now it will be available for us if we have to destroy a Japanese spaceship later, which may be a more valuable option, and may not occur for more than 20 turns. Doing it now is only to reduce the war impact. Doing it then could make the difference between win and lose.

 

[DJMGator13]

Yeah the ROP abuse should probably be saved for the other continent, if we use it at all.

Thanks for the info on the deals. I've seen before where people said to click on "active" and I have always been hitting the "Active" button on the Trades Tab. Don't think I've ever noticed the 2 (New & Active) at the bottom of the negotiation screen.

 

[nikof]

Nice turns, AlanH! (no surprise there...)

Cancel a few courthouse orders in towns where corruption will never get down from 100%.

Do you have a rule of thumb for deciding this? I'm never sure where courthouses are useful, and where they're not.

We lose gems! Must have missed that expiring deal?
...We lost spices without notice.

Doesn't this involve the "automatically renegotiate deals" setting under game preferences? I've always found that a bit unclear, but I think we want it selected (i.e. the deal is expiring, so we will automatically talk to the other party about renewing it).

 

[AlanH]

Nice turns, AlanH! (no surprise there...)
Do you have a rule of thumb for deciding this? I'm never sure where courthouses are useful, and where they're not.

I'm sure there's a mathematical way make the decision, but I tend to go with adding a courthouse if the city is generating "a few" spt and "a few" gpt. I want to see a possible improvement in shield or gold production that will more than pay for itself before the end of the game.

A courthouse costs 80 shields. If a city is producing lots of shields and only delivering 1spt due to corrupton/waste then adding a courthouse is never going to add more than 1spt. Add in gold - the courthouse *might* generate another gpt. That could be multiplied by 2 if you have the appropriate extra buildings. 2 gpt is worth 0.5gpt if you look at rush cost per shield. So even if the courthouse is going to make a difference boh to gold and shields the courthouse needs about 50 turns just to repay its shield cost. Meanwhile it could be producing 8 workers for joining to productive cities or disbanding or ... working! Food is not subject to corruption. Turn food into workers in high corruption cities and you have a useful resource. Settlers are also useful. They, too, can be joined to cities. Or they can create new infill cities each producing at least one spt and one gpt.

In several of the cities that were building courthouses when I looked at it the courthouse was probably not going to add to production at all, making it a complete waste of shields.

Doesn't this involve the "automatically renegotiate deals" setting under game preferences? I've always found that a bit unclear, but I think we want it selected (i.e. the deal is expiring, so we will automatically talk to the other party about renewing it).

I set it to "Don't ..." if I remember to look at it. I want to judge whether to renew a deal or not. Right now we have a deal running with Ottomans selling furs? for gpt. It's expired. If it had come up for renegotiation after 20 turns automatically it might have happened at a time when the Ottomans were running a deficit. As a result they wouldn't have renewed. We'd be 30 gpt worse off or whatever. If we choose when to bring that deal up for renegotiation we can do it when we know they have lots of gpt available. Or we can do it when we are about to go to war and cancel it then.