KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race

[nikof]

Turn 2, 3950
- worker move to cP reveals more BG.
- found Madrid.
- Writing at 40 turns, 20% sci

IBTs are very slow. Other civs founding dozens of cities? My computer sucks?

6, 3750
- Madrid Warrior - Warrior. Scoutsouth.

7, 3700
- Irr finished. Road cP.
- fog-gazing was correct. Incense S-SW-SW.

9, 3600
- set governor for production. Won't matter for this growth turn, but will need later.

10, 3550
- Madrid pop2, Warrior, road done.
- choose to build 1 more Warr in 3, working BG, to allow food +3.
- worker to CowG, will irrigate then road.
- sci 10%, still 1 beaker, Writing in 32.
- Warrior scouting E, lux 10%, +3g.

11, 3500
- Warr spots horses, 7 tiles due S of Madrid.

12, 3450
- Warr in S meets France Warr. Polite. Immediately declares war. (Oh wait, this isn't AW, never mind. Next SG!)
- France has BW, MAS, POT, 1 extra city, 0g. Down TW only - so they got CB somewhere. Will trade any tech for our TW, won't trade any tech for our 58g. However BW+Pott for TW+58 is "close", so I'll wait.

13, 3400
- Madrid Warr - Worker. Warr stays home to MP, and because France arriving in 5. Lux 0%.
- France is producing 0 gpt.

14, 3350
- France will deal. Trade TW + 63g for BW and POT.
- MM for 4s, 4f (enough for growth in 1).

15, 3300
- worker finishes irr, starts road.
- Madrid grows to pop3.
- France has discovered MYST, still has our gold.
- worker only needs 1s to complete, MM for +7f.
- lux 10%

16, 3250
- Madrid worker - settler. Worker E to mine BG.
- France now has 139g, they're selling tech to someone.
- send MP Warr to scout very briefly N, to gather intelligence for new city. France's Warr can't reach Madrid for 6 turns, so should be okay. Other 2 Warrs roaming to find contact. (Yeah, that could have been smoother.)
- lux 20%. Argh, just noticed that my gpt had fallen so 10% sci didn't produce a beaker. 20% sci, WRI in 27, +1gpt.

17, 3200
- contact, England, North, cautious. Has MAS, WC, and all our techs. 10g doesn't buy anything.

18, 3150
- good call Mistfit. Horses conveniently nearby in Andalusia.
- worker finishes roading cow. Crosses river S to FP, will road towards Wheat FP.
- England has MYST.

19, 3100
- Madrid grows pop3. Settler in 4, growth in 3, lux 30% sci 10%. Warr heads back home to MP.

Turn 20, 3150, and handoff.
- both scouting Warriors have hit coast. I was thinking of sending EWarr S, and NWarr E. But your call.
- N is clearly the direction for second city. Tons of shields, can share cow, horses. Good luxes to south (spices, dyes).
- looks like an okay RCP3 setup. Better for river locations, (and coast to W?). Disadvantage - wasted BG to N. Maybe not a strict RCP? I'll let someone else dotmap.
- settler will build in 3, but there's only 1 Warr at home. Sorry!
- try to keep Madrid from falling below pop2, it's a powerhouse with at least 2 tiles worked.
- I think I did okay on the production, MM and improvements. Scouting could have been better (curving around to reveal more local territory before striking out). But it looks like we've hit the limits of the continent, and barring land bridges it's a small-to-mid-size oval. Only contact with 2 civs so far, and there's a chance that's it. In which case we'll want to get our oars in the water soon.
- we'll need more gold and tech soon. Still not sure if my trade was wise, but at least it got something. But now our neighbours can produce archers, and we can't.
- if we went shield-happy, could do Granary in 6. Food for thought.
- have fun!

The Big Save

 

[nikof]

The Known World

Our Neighbourhood

 

[DJMGator13]

If I did this right we can get 2 four turn settler factories requiring minor MM only on growth.

At size 5 Madrid would use the center (2/1), iFPwheat (5/0), mBG (2/2), mGrass (2/1), two iPlains (4/2). Yielding 15food and 6 shields per turn, giving a net of +5fpt/6spt. On growth it would grab the forest allowing us to go 6/8/7/9 on shields by using another iPlain at size 6.

At size 4 our 2nd City would use the center (2/1), iGcow (4/1), iPLcow (3/2) and two mBGs (4/4). Yielding 13 food and 8 shields per turn, giving a net of +5fpt/8spt. On growth it would grab a forest allowing an overaboundance of 8/10/9/11 which will be slightly reduced by corruption but should still net 30 in 4 turns.

We have 2 choice for our 2nd city one at RCP4 (purple) and one at RCP3 (blue). Both use the same 4 type of tiles.

These were the only way I could see getting both cities to plus 5 food, while not requiring the 2nd city to build a temple. If we allow for culture in our 2nd city we have many other options.

 

[Mistfit]

Image Improved per request lower on the page

Edit: BTW good looking turns nikof! Way to get us started.

 

[Karasu]

Yes, good going

I am away right now and I am running out of time. So I'll just update the roster and try to get some sleep.

AlanH - UP
Gator - warming up
Mistfit
Tomoyo
Karasu
Nikof - played

See you all tomorrow

 

[AlanH]

Good job nikof. We can see lots of the world, we like what we see, and we've met some new friends. What more could we ask?

Good work on the settler factory analysis, Gator. It also looks as if we'll have lots of flexibility in case we run out of city sites and need to switch to units.

Nice dot map Mistfit. How about moving B one tile north to get it off the flood plain? After the last Egypt GOTM I decided I don't like building on flood plains if I can avoid it. You are permanently working one FP tile, which increases you disease probabilty, but you aren't getting any food benefit from doing so. Moving north puts it a bit closer to A, but A will be limited to working 6 tiles as long as it's being a settler factory, so there's plenty left for B.

I've downloaded the save, loaded it, and the resources and everything look OK. I'll try to play ten turns tonight, but I have an early start in the morning so I might have to defer the writeup until tomorrow evening. My main problem is going to be to try to play this map like I haven't seen it before. As it was my first GOTM submission it's rather memorable

 

[Mistfit]

5 ring 3 cities all on rivers...nice!

 

[Tomoyo]

Good dotmap. I think B should go one square north. Can't argue with anything else. I think E can be a settler factory just as well as A can, and would be the better choice because A has more potential tiles to itself.

EDIT: Crossposted

 

[Mistfit]

Gator will moving A 1 tile north screw up your 4 turn settler out of that city?

 

[DJMGator13]

Moving Site A north would put it a RCP5 and would lose the plain cow. Going one NW would put it at RCP4 but would still work. The key for the second city is to keep both cows and atleast 2mBGs.

 

[AlanH]

Here are the results of my turns.

Summary: I didn't trade any techs. I settled Barcelona at site A - Gator's blue dot. I explored some more and discovered more land to the east, connected to our land mass.

Both cities can now run at 5fpt when they are at pop 2 or more, but need more tile development to deliver high shield levels at that rate.

I played 11 turns to get us on the conventional SG turn plan. The first set normally ends at 3000 BC, with the first turn counting as turn zero.

Turn 19 3050 BC Preturn
Decided to stick with settler first from Madrid. Either granary or second city doubles our food output, but a second city provides more unit support and will boost net income. So, nothing to do Hit next turn.

Turn 20 3000 BC
I followed nikof's scouting plan to avoid my spoilt map knowledge influencing the next moves.
Warrior_N -> E, sees cost to the East.
Warrior_S -> S
Warrior outside Madrid goes back to Madrid. Not sure we need another scout urgently, and I'm nervous about an undefended single city.
Slider 7.1.2

IBT See a squid in tthe NE sea.

Turn 21 2950 BC
Warrior_N -> N, confirms we are found the north coast.
Warrior_S -> S, sees goody hut in jungle
Worker completed road south of Madrd. Moves to irrigate wheat/FP.

IBT Madrid settler -> granary.

Turn 22 2900 BC
Settler to site A on Mistfit's plan, Gator's blue dot.
Worker completed BG mine, starts road.
Worker starts irrigating FP/wheat.
Warrior_S -> SW. Decide not to risk popping the hut as we only have 2 scouts out and losing one would be a major blow.
Warrior_N returns South on east coast.

Turn 23 2850 BC
Build Barcelona -> warrior.
Warrior_N -> SE, sees more land to the east.
Warrior_S SW, sees dyes, fish, more jungle!
France and England have iron working.

Turn 24 2800 BC
Warrior_N -> SE, sees more land to East.
Warrior_S -> S, still in jungle.

IBT English warrior arrives north of Madrid.

Turn 25 2750 BC
Warrior_N -> SE
Warrior_S => SW, still in jungle on east coast.
Worker completes BG road, moves north across river towards a Barcelona BG.

IBT Madrid -> pop 3

Turn 26 2710 BC
Worker moves to Barcelona BG
Worker competes irrigating FP/wheat, start road.
Warrior_S -> S, finds French border in jungle. Must be Paris as it's expanded.
Warrior_N moves east.
Slider 8.1.1 for Madrid growth.

IBT French settler party appears out of Paris.

Turn 27 2670 BC
Warrior_N -> NE to mtn. Sees land continuing NE and E, with fresh water to the east.
Warrior_S -> S
Worker mines Barcelona BG.

IBT Barcelona warrior -> barracks.

Turn 28 2630 BC
Warrior_N -> E, sees English border on teh far side of the lake.
Warrior_S -> S, sees forest south of jungle.
Warrior in Barcelona fortifies for MP and defence.

Turn 29 2590 BC
Worker completes FP/wheat road, moves NW, NW on roads to irrigate plains west of Madrid.
Warrior_N -> S
Warrior_S -> S, sees plains to south of forest, and a tip of land east of the coastal waters.

Turn 30 2550 BC
Warrior_N -> S to hill, sees Keltoi settler party.
Warrior_S -> S, sees another French city border.

Brennus of the Keltoi needs the Wheel, has Warrior Code and 28 gold. I didn't do the trade as that's down to the next better player, but he wants wheel plus money for Warrior Code. It's the best deal we'll get, so I recommend we do it.

Notes:

Madrid is currently set to complete granary and grow in 5 turns. We need to slow the growth a tad so that the granary builds just before the pop increase. I suggest we do this by moving a citizen off a food bonus tile to the plains tile on the fifth turn. Once this is done, Madrid can run at 5 fpt using the wheat and the irrigated plain.

Barcelona is building a barracks because I think we have enough regulars. Feel free to rearrange this.

It doesn't look as if there's anyone else to the north of us. The English and Keltoi are clearly in the north east/east, and we would have met anyone else living due north. I'm speculating that the French and English may not have met yet in view of the distance between them, in which case presumably the French have another trading partner in the south to help their tech pace. We should press on south with our scout.

Here's the save, and here's the shape of the known world. Have fun

 

[DJMGator13]

Good turns.

General question, should we try to build from the "outside in" once we get our 2 settler factories going? Looks like we may run out of good sites if we wait to long. Kelts are grabbing the chokepoint but if we send our next 2 settlers that direction we could maybe box them in. Or is that asking for trouble at diety?

 

[Tomoyo]

If we only have two settler factories going, and settle many corrupt cities, we would be without decent (i.e. not cut-out) military for military police and to scare away the AIs.

I think we should settle the city two tiles west of Barcelona (E) before sending settlers to settle what we want to be our borders.

 

[Mistfit]

My plan for settling would be to complete our 3 ring first and move outward from there. There seem's to be quite a bit of land available and we should be able to complete 2 rings without bumping into anyone. But remember this is my first attempt at deity.

Cities (in order of build)
B. Worker pump
E. Unit pump (start immediately on Rax)
D. Coastal City - Get a few galleys in the water to meet all of the neighbors)
C. Decent Mixed city for more units IIRC we can chop a forest to hurry another RAX.
After that One of our two (Wow I still can't believe we have 2) Settler factories hit cities in second ring and the other to grab resourses and Lux and Prime spots.

Is my thinking sound? Or am I all wet?

Edit: Will we really need a Rax in our settler pump?

 

[nikof]

Nice job, AlanH! That's more connected land than I was expecting. I'm surprised England is all located way over past the land bridge - so there should be lots of room to settle North, right? I'd do a granary in Barcelona before a barracks, then we could have 2 settler factories and the rapidly mushrooming cities can pump out units and workers. Don't think we'd have much luck cutting off the AI, they will quite happily run straight through our borders if they want to settle on the other side.

Probably not our next city, but not too long after, we'll want to hook up those luxes.

Once the Limey N of Barcelona leaves, could be worth sending a Warr to the mountain ESE of Madrid for a view.

Hey - take a good look at that Keltoi leader! I think we should completely ignore any advice our miltary advisor gives us from now on!

 

[DJMGator13]

What are they growing - 2 mp swords.

On the baracks I think I may switch it to a granary. We can use our next cities for troops and build barracks in them.

Good identification of city usage Mistfit. Site C would work as a worker pump also. You may need to keep banging me over the head with the workers, I've been real lax about building them in my last 2 GOTMs.

 

[Karasu]

"Your security will now be handled by our armies" I didn't remember that
Looks like we are really making good progress...

Regarding settling, I agree with Tomoyo that we should build our core first.
With two settler factories (granary in Barcelona sounds good to me too), I would prioritize the worker pump and the units city, and I would go for the two luxes right afterwards.
I have been too lazy (and mentally unstable) during the last days to make any detailed calculation -good luck Gator did it!- but I was sort of looking to the southern FPs and wheat for one or two woker pumps; I didn't consider B for that, but it is probably a better solution as it belongs to our first ring.

BTW, Alan, you can't say that! After teaching me not to fear settling on flood plains, *you* say that you don't like it any longer! What shall I do now?

Since there appears to be a lot of forest to the south, we can let the French come and settle that land for us, while we can probably try to expand northeast towards the Celts and those two wheats that I thought I heard whispering 'second core...' (or not?)

Oh, the roster

Gator - Up
Mistfit - getting ready
Tomoyo
Karasu
Nikof
AlanH - doesn't want to settle on FP any more

 

[AlanH]

BTW, Alan, you can't say that! After teaching me not to fear settling on flood plains, *you* say that you don't like it any longer! What shall I do now?

It's a wimp's right to change his mind

Yeah. I've concluded that I don't mind *using* flood plains tiles - they probably pay back in food for the occasional pop losses you get, but *settling* on one and getting all the pain and none of the benefit seems like a bad idea.

I agree we should get the core running first. I don't mind if the AI starts settling *our* land - that's just fewer settlers we need to build . Does outside-in really work anyway? Surely if the AI decides it wants to settle some of our space it won't let a little thing like our cultural border stand in its way?

 

[Mistfit]

On lower settings I've blocked choke points with units but cultural borders never do it.

 

[Tomoyo]

The reasoning behind "outside-in" is that the AI would have to travel longer to get to the other side of your boundaries to place a city, making settling away from you more attractive. I don't like to use it because you end up with a very undeveloped empire if you use it.