KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race

[Tomoyo]

I like the plan, but I don't really know what you mean by "If we could put enough cultural pressure on Marseilles to push back there borders on the NW side up to the city.", because you can't do that unless you have a city two tiles away from Marseille, which we obviously aren't going to have. (Unless we settle on the Dyes) If the French have already connected the Iron can we put the city on RCP6 instead?

It's much better than my usual "Send the Stack of Doom at the Cities and Hope for the Best" plan.

 

[Mistfit]

If the French have already connected the Iron can we put the city on RCP6 instead?

You are correct if the iron is roaded there is no need to settle on the iron.

you can't do that unless you have a city two tiles away from Marseille

Ok, I did not know that. I know I've seen it done before but I did not realize that was how it was done.

It's much better than my usual "Send the Stack of Doom at the Cities and Hope for the Best" plan.

To be honest with you this is my plan normally. I'm just trying to impress the GoldWingers

And yes yet another dot map:

Spoiler :

I realize that the map is not a spoiler but i figured if you do not want to wait for it to load you can just skip over it.

 

[nikof]

Okay, got it.
I have an anniversary dinner tonight, so don't expect any turns until tomorrow!
Our unescorted settlers have surprised me in this game, I have to say. Is that really safe, in Deity, even with friendly relations with our neighbours? Seems to be working so far, and I assume the goldies are basing this approach on years of experience...

 

[Tomoyo]

Zaragoza is Spanish, right? Personally, I would have put it one tile east on the lake, but I guess the current location provides better relations with the Keltoi.

@Nikof: Usually I send unescorted settlers because:

a) The AI targets your cities rather than your settlers, and
b) The barbarian combat non-bonus means that if you bring an escort, it might not even be effective. Deity barb vs settler is the same as Cheiftain barb vs. settler though.

 

[Mistfit]

Zaragoza is Spanish, right?

Nope not one of ours

Edit oops you are right it is one of ours

Zaragoza founded on the furs (traded faster access to luxury for placement next to fresh water).

 

[Karasu]

Yes, I was in doubt between settling Zaragoza on the furs or next to the lake.
It will take some time before it reaches size 7, especially as I think we will get a worker or two out of it, so in the end I chose to connect the luxes earlier by sacrificing the fresh water position. It is debatable, of course, but I believe that this way we get a higher return earlier.


Regarding the war plan, yes, I like it. I almost never use Archers for early strikes, and it may well be one of the weak points in my game.

In our case... ehm... we won't be able to build chariots now as we already know Horseback Riding
I was also thinking: we can most likely get our eastern iron connected before we reach Republic. At that point, is an Archer offensive still convenient or should we rather go with Swordsmen?

Regarding city placement. How about moving J one tile SW (on the Iron) and K 1E (on the Ivory)? That would speed up connection of those cities to Ciudad de la Luna, but J would loose the fish.

 

[Mistfit]

Ok so your last set of turns mussed up my grand plan As my wife always says after being dissapointed with a gift I've given her "It's the thought that counts"

Moving the cities makes sense to me. I was trying to place the optimally instead of thinking about quickness. I'll update it at some point in the day today.

@nikof Happy anniversary - how many?

 

[DJMGator13]

Horsemen would work fine. I've become a big fan of them over my last few GOTMs. Vet Horses are effective against spears and with retreat they hang around a lot longer than archers. BTW, they cost 80 to upgrade to knights in Civ III, but cost 120 in C3C.

 

[AlanH]

Okay, got it.
I have an anniversary dinner tonight, so don't expect any turns until tomorrow!
Our unescorted settlers have surprised me in this game, I have to say. Is that really safe, in Deity, even with friendly relations with our neighbours? Seems to be working so far, and I assume the goldies are basing this approach on years of experience...

I never escort settlers unless I know for sure they are approaching a barb-infested area. Normally I'll have cleared the territory of barbs first. The AI will never declare war for the sake of killing a single settler in my limited experience (not " years of ..." though ). Escorting in the early game means dedicating units that should be out scouting or in MP'ing.

 

[DJMGator13]

I agree with Alan, I rarely escort my settlers early in the game. If I know there are barbs active I'll try to light up the area of expansion to make sure my settler does not get killed.

 

[Karasu]

Yes, I tend to do the same -although on occasion I will have one of my settler bump into a barb horseman... but even then, you can often settle on the spot and just loose a few shields rather than the settler.

 

[nikof]

Hullo, just started playing.
Wow, that news about the undefended settlers is an eye-opener for me! And will certainly speed up future expansion.

I would like a GOTM rule opinion, please
I bought a worker from the Kelts in Turn 0. I gave them Currency for Worker, WM, 2g.
Now in Turn 1, they have 2 workers for sale! I'm trying not to break the "seed corn" rule about not buying the last 2 workers, but I don't know how many workers we can expect them to have by 1225 BC. Would it be okay to buy one of these? If you think it's kosher, I'll certainly buy both (Construction will do it).
EDIT: Err, maybe I'm confused. I just checked the GOTM site and didn't see a mention of this rule. Was it an RBC Epic thing instead?

Settling East: I'm thinking of putting the settler N of the elephant/SE of the Iron, so it can get both. Next settler can take the cow.

@Mistfit: 7th, thanks for asking! First with a baby though, with all that implies for anniversary dinners.

 

[AlanH]

I thought the seedcorn rule was enforced by the "eqWorker" unit in Civ3 GOTMs, and I've never hesitated about buying any worker that's available. Though giving a whole tech for a worker you can buy for 30 gold or less seems excessive - I usually pay cash.

Now you've made me wonder if I've got it wrong, though

PS Congrats on you anniversary. Ours is next week ... 5 times your number

 

[Mistfit]

I think this placement would be fine

Edit: IIRC the worker thing had something to do with the year 1000BC although my mind is frazzled at this time of the day

 

[nikof]

@AlanH - 6 civs, including us, already had Currency, so I thought we probably wouldn't ever get more for it than 32g (Worker +2g). Assuming that we managed to trade in that narrow window between the Keltoi getting some real cash (they only had the 2) and not buying Currency from another civ. But that may have been wrong thinking. I'll buy the the other 2 (for cash) unless someone chimes in soon.

Congrats on 35!!!! Wow! Gee you're old!
You'd have to add up about 6 of my parents' marriages to get to that.

@Mistfit - I like your RCP9 dotmap! I've never really tried to put a 3rd ring in place like that. 'F?' might be a good foreign palace site. Although I guess we'd need a GL for that, it would take forever to build.

 

[Tomoyo]

Chiming in. I think we should have (and did ) sold (sell) Currency anyway for whatever the other civ had (has), because they most likely would have gotten it from another civ anyway.

EDIT: "Chiming in" does not mean I don't agree with the worker deal.

 

[AlanH]

@AlanH - 6 civs, including us, already had Currency, so I thought we probably wouldn't ever get more for it than 32g (Worker +2g).

Sorry, I didn't express that very well. The Currency deal was fine, as we knew it wasn't worth much. The Construction one seemed a bargain though, as it's usually worth quite a bit. But I haven't looked at the save so I'm probably Sorry

 

[nikof]

No no, no apology needed, no sweat. This is the type of feedback I like to get in an SG, I was just explaining my "thinking."

Cheers,
nikof

 

[Karasu]

I can't remember the GOTM rules forbidding anything concerning workers, so...
Concerning Construction, IIRC they are the only ones without it, so I'd do the deal and take all they offer.

 

[nikof]

A big thank-you to Mistfit for the new avatar!

Pre-flight
Karasu made the population so happy that lux can be turned down to 20%.
The Kelts have a worker to sell. I give them Currency for Worker, WM, 2g. By a happy coincidence, the worker is a cousin of our military advisor!
Switch Ciudad Temple to Barracks (our new cities should expand the borders okay). But this won't complete in my turnset, so it's only an opinion .
Re-discover the futility of trying to improve on Karasu's MM.

IT
France would like us to pay 2g to trade maps. No thanks.
Squid off Seville.

Turn 1, 1225BC
Keltoi have 2 workers to sell! [Discuss with team.] I'm beginning to suspect a Fifth Column movement, but more hands on deck is more hands on deck.
Buy 2 workers for 60g.

IT
Madrid, Barcelona settler-settler.
Santiago warr-warr. Lend it a mBG tile from Barcelona, so can do warriors in 2 turns.
Delhi completed GL.

Turn 2, 1200BC
Lux 10% (I'll be sliding this up&down as Madrid & Barcelona grow & shrink, but won't report each one).
India will pay 30g+2gpt for Construction. Seems to be all he has - I'll wait a turn and see if it improves.
Found Casa del Bamrapido on E Coast, claiming Iron & Elephants. Temple, vetoable.
Found Misfitzia on point C (same problem with space in city names, I think). Temple.

IT
Toleda worker-barracks.
Murcia worker-worker. If someone wanted, they could grow Murcia until it became a 2-turn factory. Immediate workers seems good for now, though.

Turn 3, 1175BC
Oh, . Lost the deal with India, they got Construction. Sell it to Kelt laggards for 69+WM.
Furs are hooked up. Hadn't realized Zaragota is on the furs, I have one worker in the forest roading. Lux 0%, +22gpt.

IT
Squid lurks. Sogul (Ottoman) completes Great Wall. Santiago warr-warr (decided more units to provide figleaf for spread-out cities is good for now. Can upgrade to Swords.)

Turn 4, 1150BC
Not much.

IT
Squid swims. Zaragoza worker-temple. Keltoi wants to trade maps, sure.

Turn 5, 1125BC
Mouse dies. Call it a night.

IT
Zulu wants WM trade, get another 3g for it.
Madrid, Barcelona settler-settler.
Santiago warr-warr.

Turn 6, 1100BC
Found Dajormagator. 1 tile SE of Mistfit's 'F?' because didn't want to encroach on Kelt territory yet.

Turn 7, 1075BC
Found El Karasu on 'H'.

IT
Squid, who I have named 'Persistence,' heads W.
Santiago warr-archer (perimeter cities mostly have warriors now).

Turn 8, 1050BC
Furs hooked up. We can now trade luxes with France (Marseilles hooked up). Joan would give 145g (entire treasury) for Furs. Won't trade gpt or Dyes. I'll leave this for next player, no urgency that I see.

IT
Persistence is back! (Has anyone been following the saga of Luna, the overly friendly orca at Vancouver Island?)
Murcia worker-worker.
India wants a peek at our map. Give it for 13g rather than trading maps.

Turn 9, 1025BC
Find more Iron, NW coast. Will move settler N to claim it.

IT
Factories produce settlers.

Turn 10, 1000BC
English warrior/settler pair appears 1N of Mistfit's revised 'J.' I settle immediately, 1SW of J, to claim cow. Can get fish on border expansion. 'Villalanh.'
Settler in NW could build a city on the hill he currently occupies.
I did not move the settlers in Madrid/Barcelona. Over to you, AlanH.
There's a worker roading 1E of Ciudad (cow tile). If another worker team irrigates 1SW of Ciudad, the cow can be irrigated.
I concentrated on roads/cities to the W, probably at the expense of improving tiles in the core. Figured the iron & expansion were priorities. Feel free to correct that, and any city builds.
Galley comes online in Seville in 1. Watch out for Persistence!
No techs or workers to buy.
No embassies have been established yet (couldn't think of a great reason to do that instead of saving gold for Sword upgrades.)
Cities are vaguely defended (most have 1 warrior), but I just left Murcia open to chain a warr over to Santiago for MP, and keep lux at 0% when the factories are pop5.
I have moved a worker on to the Iron, but not started roading yet. So the option remains to build more warriors first (and we have 352g, enough for 8 upgrades, and growing).
I just put a citizen on scientist duty in Valencia, to reduce our research to 0%. Vetoable. Republic in 29.

Enjoy!
The save for next much better player