Extremely well done, warring on a shoestring. 
KA01B - A Simple Deity Space Race - PtW Roster
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Northern Pike
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Great work in a difficult situation. 
We don't even have war weariness yet.
This is just a quick look at possible first-ring (3/3.5) and second-ring (7/7.5) sites around the FP in Pamplona. Needless to say, this is a long-term view which assumes we'll get Birmingham from the English in the peace settlement (they'll surrender it already), go to war with France, and move Palma and Teruel. Our settler south of Grenoble can found on the ruins (site 7) almost immediately, though.
We don't even have war weariness yet.This is just a quick look at possible first-ring (3/3.5) and second-ring (7/7.5) sites around the FP in Pamplona. Needless to say, this is a long-term view which assumes we'll get Birmingham from the English in the peace settlement (they'll surrender it already), go to war with France, and move Palma and Teruel. Our settler south of Grenoble can found on the ruins (site 7) almost immediately, though.
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I don't think we need to move Palma NP. All cities at distance 4.5 or less will have Rank 1 won't they? If this is right, then Teruel only needs to move if we choose not to go to war with France, to allow the sites directly north and south of Teruels current location to be settled. If we go to war with France then there is no need to abandon Teruel as we can settle your site 3.
Is this correct, or have I got it around my neck again?
Is this correct, or have I got it around my neck again?
Northern Pike
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I'm not sure. My discussion was based on the simple assumption that Pamplona now acts as our capital for cities closer to it than to Madrid. From this standpoint, Palma and Teruel, at RCP distance 2.5 rounded down to 2, push Leon, Jaen, and site 3 into the FP's second ring.
However, you seem to be referring to a nuance or glitch according to which all cites at least as close to the FP as the first ring is to the capital have rank 1. If this is the case, you're presumably correct; but I don't understand this phenomenon, so I'd appreciate an explanation, or a link.
However, you seem to be referring to a nuance or glitch according to which all cites at least as close to the FP as the first ring is to the capital have rank 1. If this is the case, you're presumably correct; but I don't understand this phenomenon, so I'd appreciate an explanation, or a link.
Northern Pike
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We're listed as strong relative to the French, and they're depriving us of at least four first- and second-ring sites while also crowding some of our existing cities, so I think we should attack them as soon as possible after we're finished with the English. We'd want to raze and replace Grenoble, Chartres, Rouen, and Dijon at least. (Actually, apart from Grenoble these towns are acceptably situated for RCP purposes, and it would be even better to receive them in a peace settlement, but I suppose that's only realistic in the case of Dijon.) After that it would be a question of whether we wanted to leave Joanie with about eight cities to promote the overall tech pace, or push on as far as we could on the grounds that territory is power.
Turning from the rosy future
to the immediate situation:
BH, we're building military units in several towns without barracks--Jaen, Teruel, Madrid, Murcia, Almeria, Cordoba, Norwich--and now that MB has gotten us past the military crisis, I'd suggest that you change as many of these builds as your comfort level with the war permits. I'd particularly like to see Madrid switch to a marketplace, and Murcia to a courthouse.
Between the ongoing English war and the possible French one, we're going to need quite a few more settlers, so I hope you'll return Madrid to its role as a four-turn settler factory as soon as it completes its present build (switched or not). Squeezing a military unit out of the cycle as well doesn't matter now.
Turning from the rosy future
to the immediate situation:BH, we're building military units in several towns without barracks--Jaen, Teruel, Madrid, Murcia, Almeria, Cordoba, Norwich--and now that MB has gotten us past the military crisis, I'd suggest that you change as many of these builds as your comfort level with the war permits. I'd particularly like to see Madrid switch to a marketplace, and Murcia to a courthouse.
Between the ongoing English war and the possible French one, we're going to need quite a few more settlers, so I hope you'll return Madrid to its role as a four-turn settler factory as soon as it completes its present build (switched or not). Squeezing a military unit out of the cycle as well doesn't matter now.
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I agree on the military builds. There is no need to build regulars now, and I should have changed the builds befor hading over. I am reasonably confident we will not see any large stacks of English troops appear on the horizon again.
I'll dig out a link for you on the Rank corruption bug NP.
I'll dig out a link for you on the Rank corruption bug NP.
Northern Pike
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No need; I've found the relevant threads. Thanks, though.
30 AD (0) - Made changes to Madrid and Murcia's builds, as requested. Tereul will be abandoned soon, no reason to invest in infrastructure so it will continue its military build. Jaen switched to barracks. Cordoba switched to catapult since we only have two. Almeria to worker, and Norwich also switches to catapult.
50 AD (1) - Check to see if Brighton is on a hill, nope, so the knights are sent in. And then the two regular pikeman defeat our two veteran knights that had ended last turn on the mountain, losing 1 hp between the two of them. They didn't even retreat. Check again to see if Brighton isn't on a hill, and it really isn't. Not the best start. Didn't realize we already have a settler almost in place for the Tereul replacement, so I'll switch it to catapult and rush it.
70 AD (2) - Brighton captured this time around, and no losses. Since we aren't suffering WW, it might not be a bad idea to continue fighting, moving north from Warwick until we secure what I think would be a world monopoly on Furs.
90 AD (3) - Move stuff around, and workers are starting to clear jungle.
IT - All of our alliances are canceled, so we are free to make peace. When the Ottomans come to cancel, I sold them Furs for 8 gpt on the way out.
110 AD (4) - Madrid completes Market, and starts Library, since we will eventually self research a tech here and there. On a different note, what is wrong with our knights? Is there an option somewhere to turn off retreats? First, an elite knight dies to a regular pike without taking a single hp. After the other elite knight steps in and kills the pike (I know, elites shouldn't be risked since we have so few, but it is 80/20 in our favor). Then, same thing happens again with a veteran knight against a spearman. Another knight loses to the spearman before the last two knights are able to capture Warwick, beating the spearman and a longbowman.
130 AD (5) - English learn Education, and France and the Japanese (I think so, at least) start Magellan's. So it will be handy to pick up Education in peace. Also, Ottomans and India have made peace with England.
150 AD (6) - Woohoo! A knight finally retreated. Then, two knights manage to win, and Liverpool is ours. I go to make peace with the English, but they won't give Education and Birmingham, so we'll wait one more turn to see if anything changes.
IT - Sell furs to Japan for 9gpt, they go from Annoyed to Polite.
170 AD (7) - Another elite knight fails to retreat, and win, when odds were better than 80% for a win. Aren't elite knights supposed to retreat 2/3 of the time? But Reading is captured. Peace made with England, who gives Birmingham, Education, World Map, and 4 gold. I am somewhat inclined to leave the trading to someone else, but that wastes three turns. Sooo....
864 gold and 28gpt for Astronomy from Japan.
Can only get 15 gold, 3gpt and Music Theory for Astronomy from America.
Straight up trade with Aztecs, Music Theory for Printing Press. They had no gpt to offer.
At this point I could buy Navigation for a whole lot and trade it for Banking, but I don't know that that is worth it.
But I ignore all that, and buy Navigation, a completely useless tech, for 68 gpt and 15 gold from India.
It takes Navigation and 30gpt to get Banking from the Zulu. Maybe I should have just bought Banking.
190 AD (8) - Ugh. Should have waited a turn. Three civs just learned Chemistry.
210 AD (9) - Not much changes.
230 AD (10) - Cash rushed a temple in Warwick to get the Furs in our radius. We will be able to trade that away and hopefully get back some of our money. We're paying France 42gpt, so I told them to leave or declare, and they left. Only four turns left on the deal, though, and there are a few units ready for the attack. There are also a few knights on their way from the recently conquered lands.
250 AD (11) - I am going ahead and taking the extra turn. It has been rather fun. And I can leave a slightly neater game for the next player. Oops, so much for that, misclicked and broke a worker team. I upped luxury tax to 10%. That could be dropped and some specialists added, I suppose. I think MapStat told me three cities, including Madrid, would revolt next turn.
Final notes: France could be invaded in three turns without a rep hit. We have lots of regular warriors from all those years of the warrior/settler pump, which could be used to decrease flip chances in English cities or disbanded. This occured to me in the last turns, so I left that decision to the next person. But they are eating gpt right now. Chemistry is known by three, Democracy by two, but we don't really need either at this point, and probably can't afford either until we get that 42gpt from France back. I haven't really messed with tile assignments in individual cities, so we can probably get some extra gpt. I am not really in the mood for that, though.
50 AD (1) - Check to see if Brighton is on a hill, nope, so the knights are sent in. And then the two regular pikeman defeat our two veteran knights that had ended last turn on the mountain, losing 1 hp between the two of them. They didn't even retreat. Check again to see if Brighton isn't on a hill, and it really isn't. Not the best start. Didn't realize we already have a settler almost in place for the Tereul replacement, so I'll switch it to catapult and rush it.
70 AD (2) - Brighton captured this time around, and no losses. Since we aren't suffering WW, it might not be a bad idea to continue fighting, moving north from Warwick until we secure what I think would be a world monopoly on Furs.
90 AD (3) - Move stuff around, and workers are starting to clear jungle.
IT - All of our alliances are canceled, so we are free to make peace. When the Ottomans come to cancel, I sold them Furs for 8 gpt on the way out.
110 AD (4) - Madrid completes Market, and starts Library, since we will eventually self research a tech here and there. On a different note, what is wrong with our knights? Is there an option somewhere to turn off retreats? First, an elite knight dies to a regular pike without taking a single hp. After the other elite knight steps in and kills the pike (I know, elites shouldn't be risked since we have so few, but it is 80/20 in our favor). Then, same thing happens again with a veteran knight against a spearman. Another knight loses to the spearman before the last two knights are able to capture Warwick, beating the spearman and a longbowman.
130 AD (5) - English learn Education, and France and the Japanese (I think so, at least) start Magellan's. So it will be handy to pick up Education in peace. Also, Ottomans and India have made peace with England.
150 AD (6) - Woohoo! A knight finally retreated. Then, two knights manage to win, and Liverpool is ours. I go to make peace with the English, but they won't give Education and Birmingham, so we'll wait one more turn to see if anything changes.
IT - Sell furs to Japan for 9gpt, they go from Annoyed to Polite.
170 AD (7) - Another elite knight fails to retreat, and win, when odds were better than 80% for a win. Aren't elite knights supposed to retreat 2/3 of the time? But Reading is captured. Peace made with England, who gives Birmingham, Education, World Map, and 4 gold. I am somewhat inclined to leave the trading to someone else, but that wastes three turns. Sooo....
864 gold and 28gpt for Astronomy from Japan.
Can only get 15 gold, 3gpt and Music Theory for Astronomy from America.
Straight up trade with Aztecs, Music Theory for Printing Press. They had no gpt to offer.
At this point I could buy Navigation for a whole lot and trade it for Banking, but I don't know that that is worth it.
But I ignore all that, and buy Navigation, a completely useless tech, for 68 gpt and 15 gold from India.
It takes Navigation and 30gpt to get Banking from the Zulu. Maybe I should have just bought Banking.
190 AD (8) - Ugh. Should have waited a turn. Three civs just learned Chemistry.
210 AD (9) - Not much changes.
230 AD (10) - Cash rushed a temple in Warwick to get the Furs in our radius. We will be able to trade that away and hopefully get back some of our money. We're paying France 42gpt, so I told them to leave or declare, and they left. Only four turns left on the deal, though, and there are a few units ready for the attack. There are also a few knights on their way from the recently conquered lands.
250 AD (11) - I am going ahead and taking the extra turn. It has been rather fun. And I can leave a slightly neater game for the next player. Oops, so much for that, misclicked and broke a worker team. I upped luxury tax to 10%. That could be dropped and some specialists added, I suppose. I think MapStat told me three cities, including Madrid, would revolt next turn.
Final notes: France could be invaded in three turns without a rep hit. We have lots of regular warriors from all those years of the warrior/settler pump, which could be used to decrease flip chances in English cities or disbanded. This occured to me in the last turns, so I left that decision to the next person. But they are eating gpt right now. Chemistry is known by three, Democracy by two, but we don't really need either at this point, and probably can't afford either until we get that 42gpt from France back. I haven't really messed with tile assignments in individual cities, so we can probably get some extra gpt. I am not really in the mood for that, though.
Northern Pike
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Good progress against England. 
Don't worry about your results in knight attacks. The RNG allows a wide range of outcomes, and the percentages are only meaningful in the long term.
Don't worry about your results in knight attacks. The RNG allows a wide range of outcomes, and the percentages are only meaningful in the long term.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
Nice progress everyone
Looks like I'm up. I'll get to this tomorrow in all probability.
Looks like I'm up. I'll get to this tomorrow in all probability.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
Preturn- Modify a couple things. Nothing major though.
IT- zzz
T1 260
Move some troops towards France. Not much else. Lots of worker stuff.
I pick up gems and wines from the Iroquois and Americans, respectively. Lux is dropped to zero.
IT- We get some we love the Queen day. Three civs pick up economics.
T2 270
Not much new. Looks like we'll lay the smack down on France next turn.
IT- Nothing much. France starts Smith's.
T3 280
I call up Joan and ask that she give us Chemistry if she wishes to live. Looks like she has a deathwish
War declared.
I start in the north with Amiens, which falls easily. I whack a warrior with an elite knight, and.....
I'll save him up for now. I think we should get econ in a peace deal from France and rush Smith's. I've found that it can help a great deal later on. I've had it save me around 100gpt before.
I continue the fight in the south. It takes 3 knights to take out one French uber-pike. A vet knihgt swoops in and take out the remaining spear, and the city is ours. We then go to Chartres, and the city is ours after two knight victories.
IT- A wonder cascade occurs. Many switch to Smiths.
T4 290
With the cascade that just occured, I'm not confident in waiting for peace with France for Econ. I dial up America, and get it from Abe for horses and 100g. Madrid is swichted to Smiths and Cordoba does his job.
We move 4 knights next to Dijon for an assault next turn. We engage the French garrison at Grenboble, killing three spears and taking the city. France has been cleared from our northern land.
IT- A French longbow dies at the feet of our knights.
We complete Smith's. Our gpt goes up by around +25.
T5 300
Our knights are heavily damaged, but we capture Dijon.
We move other troops around, but now more offensive action.
IT- Osman demands gold and TM. Seeing as I love being overrun by Sipahi, I tell him to stuff it......kidding, of course.
We lose our supply of wines from America, as they are lured into war against us by France.
We suffer one riot due to the lost lux, but overall we're fine.
T6 310
France's massive counterattack has arrived in the form of 6 regular warriors
I pick off one of them, but I'm content to let them impale themselves against our knights rather tahn go chasing them through the jungle.
IT- France shows up with some real forces, a MDI and a knight.
T7 320
I kill the knight and the MDI. Three warriors are picked off.
IT- zzz
T8 330
Kill off a bunch of warriors and a longbow.
Our forces have amaased on the French border. I'd say we're ready to push forward again soon.
IT- zzz
T9 340
We have ten knights in position to take Tours next turn.
IT- A French longbow makes a futile attack against our knights. An American galley shows up on our western shore.
T10 350
I move two knights into the region by the American galley to deal with whatever it dumps off on us.
The pikes at Tours are on some serious steroids, as the repel about 5 knights before any damage is done. We have more knights in the area, so we should be able to take it in a turn or two, provided the rng doesn't crap on us again.
Summary
Well, all went well excluding the siege of Tours. We have six healthy knights in the area, so I think we can take it next turn. France is a democracy, so I would keep pushing them. A little bit more damage and they'll likely revert to anarchy, and then we'll really have them.
IT- zzz
T1 260
Move some troops towards France. Not much else. Lots of worker stuff.
I pick up gems and wines from the Iroquois and Americans, respectively. Lux is dropped to zero.
IT- We get some we love the Queen day. Three civs pick up economics.
T2 270
Not much new. Looks like we'll lay the smack down on France next turn.
IT- Nothing much. France starts Smith's.
T3 280
I call up Joan and ask that she give us Chemistry if she wishes to live. Looks like she has a deathwish
War declared.I start in the north with Amiens, which falls easily. I whack a warrior with an elite knight, and.....
I'll save him up for now. I think we should get econ in a peace deal from France and rush Smith's. I've found that it can help a great deal later on. I've had it save me around 100gpt before.
I continue the fight in the south. It takes 3 knights to take out one French uber-pike. A vet knihgt swoops in and take out the remaining spear, and the city is ours. We then go to Chartres, and the city is ours after two knight victories.
IT- A wonder cascade occurs. Many switch to Smiths.
T4 290
With the cascade that just occured, I'm not confident in waiting for peace with France for Econ. I dial up America, and get it from Abe for horses and 100g. Madrid is swichted to Smiths and Cordoba does his job.
We move 4 knights next to Dijon for an assault next turn. We engage the French garrison at Grenboble, killing three spears and taking the city. France has been cleared from our northern land.
IT- A French longbow dies at the feet of our knights.
We complete Smith's. Our gpt goes up by around +25.
T5 300
Our knights are heavily damaged, but we capture Dijon.
We move other troops around, but now more offensive action.
IT- Osman demands gold and TM. Seeing as I love being overrun by Sipahi, I tell him to stuff it......kidding, of course.
We lose our supply of wines from America, as they are lured into war against us by France.
We suffer one riot due to the lost lux, but overall we're fine.
T6 310
France's massive counterattack has arrived in the form of 6 regular warriors
I pick off one of them, but I'm content to let them impale themselves against our knights rather tahn go chasing them through the jungle.
IT- France shows up with some real forces, a MDI and a knight.
T7 320
I kill the knight and the MDI. Three warriors are picked off.
IT- zzz
T8 330
Kill off a bunch of warriors and a longbow.
Our forces have amaased on the French border. I'd say we're ready to push forward again soon.
IT- zzz
T9 340
We have ten knights in position to take Tours next turn.
IT- A French longbow makes a futile attack against our knights. An American galley shows up on our western shore.
T10 350
I move two knights into the region by the American galley to deal with whatever it dumps off on us.
The pikes at Tours are on some serious steroids, as the repel about 5 knights before any damage is done. We have more knights in the area, so we should be able to take it in a turn or two, provided the rng doesn't crap on us again.
Summary
Well, all went well excluding the siege of Tours. We have six healthy knights in the area, so I think we can take it next turn. France is a democracy, so I would keep pushing them. A little bit more damage and they'll likely revert to anarchy, and then we'll really have them.
Well done, good job netting Smith's, a very useful wonder in this game!
Northern Pike
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I haven't had time to look at the save, but plainly a great turn, KB.
Ainwood, I have to make an unexpected trip out of town, and there's no way I'll be able to play before Monday. So if you'd like to play over the weekend, please go ahead, and I'll take my turn after you.
Ainwood, I have to make an unexpected trip out of town, and there's no way I'll be able to play before Monday. So if you'd like to play over the weekend, please go ahead, and I'll take my turn after you.
Northern Pike
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Since I'm responsible for this hiatus, I'll at least use it to ask the team a question. Do we really want to take Tours, or any more French cities? We have all the French towns on good sites (from our point of view) already, and if we start taking their best first-ring cities their ability to drive the overall tech pace--which should be considerable, since Paris has Copernicus and a river--will begin to decline.
This is essentially a decision as to whether we want to leave the French alive as a civ with good research capacity, or eliminate them altogether and take all their land. I don't think pushing our war against them just a little further--taking only Tours and/or Lyons, say--makes sense.
Ainwood, if you'd like to play this afternoon or evening (Monday), that would still advance the game more quickly than I'm in a position to do.
This is essentially a decision as to whether we want to leave the French alive as a civ with good research capacity, or eliminate them altogether and take all their land. I don't think pushing our war against them just a little further--taking only Tours and/or Lyons, say--makes sense.
Ainwood, if you'd like to play this afternoon or evening (Monday), that would still advance the game more quickly than I'm in a position to do.
I agree that we should do one of both options, not a compromise between them. I think we should try to make the best out of the Deity level AI and keep them in the game, at least until they can't keep up anymore. I think it is also wise to keep a civ between us and the topdog. 'Surprise' attacks will be even more obvious that way.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
With the number of knights we have right now, it might be advisable to stop the war soon. I think could then buy Chemistry from someone, and make peace with the French in hopes that they'll have Metallurgy or Physics.
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My view remains unchanged. I believe we need not be frightened of the deity tech pace, but should encourage it as far as possible and trade our way into space. We will obviously need to ensure that we get the UN. I think we should trade all the scientific and large civs to parity and start building improvements. Libraries, Universities, markets, banks so we can research and trade.
We are all fairly used to being at war all the time, and it's a difficult habit to break. But this game is not about score, it's just about how fast we can drive tech pace. If we insist on beating the AI into submission then we are restricted to a 4 turn per tech rate which is not good enough.
Lets build some markets and libraries
We are all fairly used to being at war all the time, and it's a difficult habit to break. But this game is not about score, it's just about how fast we can drive tech pace. If we insist on beating the AI into submission then we are restricted to a 4 turn per tech rate which is not good enough.
Lets build some markets and libraries
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