KA01B - A Simple Deity Space Race - PtW Roster

[Northern Pike]

750 (0): I switch Santander and Vitoria from worker builds to temples. Normally I have no objection to building a worker first in a newly founded city, but these towns are under cultural pressure and need temples quickly.

We aren't even conducting minimum research--which is understandable, I suppose. I think I'll min-research Engineering with a homeless scientist, though.

C. d. l. Luna temple --> barracks. Since our only town with a barracks (Toledo) is too far advanced on a marketplace build to turn back, this is our only way of getting started on a military buildup.

A. d. Ribannah galley --> galley, Barcelona worker --> worker.


730 (1): There's nothing more for our exploring warrior to discover, and no way for him to get home , so I disband him to save gold.


710 (2): Two galleys survive their first moves into the western ocean.

Madrid settler --> warrior, Barcelona worker --> worker.

The Celts declare war on the English.


690 (3): The Ottomans now have Monotheism, and lead the pack by Mono and Feudalism.

Our two suicide galleys push on into the west, discovering land and a blue border--and one of them survives the interturn.

Madrid warrior --> settler.


670 (4): We discover America. We're ahead of the Americans by Currency, Construction, and Literature. I send Abe Construction in return for communications with the Iroquois, the Aztecs, and the Japanese, along with 28 gold. No doubt we could have accumulated these contacts eventually by sailing around the new land mass, but I don't think helping the backward continent a little can hurt us.

The Iroquois are behind us by Mathematics, Code of Laws, and Literature; the Aztecs by Literature, Currency, the Republic, and Construction. I contact the Japanese without expecting to find anything interesting--but they have a global monopoly on Monarchy, while trailing us by Mathematics, Literature, and the Republic.

So: Construction to the Aztecs for 174 gold (full value). Literature, Mathematics, Republic, 413 gold, and 27 gpt to Japan for Monarchy. Literature to the Aztecs for 91 gold and their TM. Currency to Japan for 417 gold, 11 gpt, and their TM. Monarchy and 270 gold to the Ottomans for Feudalism. Literature to the Iroquois for 14 gold and their TM. Literature to the Americans for 15 gold and their WM.

The net result of all this is that we're still behind the Ottomans by Monotheism, but we have a full view of the world, and we've held on to our trump cards: no rival civ has communications with the other continent, and no one has seen our map.

Since our suicide galleys have done their duty, I switch Santiago from its galley build to a marketplace. A little later I switch A. d. Ribannah from galley to barracks, too.

Barcelona worker --> worker.

The Ottomans begin the Hanging Gardens, of course--but so do the French. That's odd--they certainly had nothing worth trading for Monarchy when I checked.


650 (5): We found Asturias on the final first-ring site, two tiles south of Toledo. I'd intended to poach the southern iron before founding this town, but the presence of an Ottoman settler/warrior team in the Mancha area forced my hand.

We found Jaen on the northern iron, beating a French settler landed from a galley to the punch by one turn.

I buy a French worker for 105 gold.

The Zulus begin Sun Tzu. I hope someone's going to research Monotheism before Feudalism.


630 (6): Madrid settler --> warrior, Barcelona worker --> worker.


610 (7): Madrid warrior --> settler.


590 (8): Pamplona's furs come on line, and I'm able to cut the lux rate to 0%. A great relief--I hate redundant happiness.

I buy a Zulu worker for 120 gold.

Barcelona worker --> worker.


570 (9)-550 (10): Not much.

 

[Northern Pike]

THE FUTURE


We're behind the Ottomans and the Indians by Monotheism (as far as we can see). No rival civ has communications with the other continent or has seen our map, so we still have a free hand to exploit these advantages.

We'll complete four marketplaces, two barracks, and a courthouse during the next round, so our civ should get onto the good part of the growth curve soon.

We can run Madrid as a settler factory for as much longer as we want, while keeping the lux rate at zero, as long as the city's sixth citizen is used to collect taxes. In Republic, the town can reach 5 fpt and 10 spt without him. We'll have settled all the obvious sites once we grab the southern iron (see below), but I think we should stockpile a few settlers before turning Madrid to other uses. We'll need settlers when we go to war, and we'll never be in a position to produce them this easily and painlessly again.

One possible complication here is that once the worker next to Jaen builds a road, we'll have iron hooked up, and the warrior part of the warrior/settler cycle in Madrid won't be possible. So perhaps the worker should do something else first.

We have a settler positioned three tiles south of Barcelona, already on the site (a proper second-ring location) where it should found a city to poach the southern iron.

Barcelona should continue to serve as a worker pump for the foreseeable future. The time has come, though, to use some of the workers it produces for merges. As soon as Santiago completes its marketplace, we should use workers to pump it up to the highest population it can keep happy at 0% lux.

Our scientist is on duty in Santander, which can't work a second tile until it's hooked up to our road network, or completes its temple.

 

[Northern Pike]

550 BC, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

The New World:

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Awesome trading

I think we're looking a lot better now. As long as we don't have to cave to a demand for one of the cotacts, we're in a great brokering situation.

 

[ainwood]

Looks pretty-good. Is the aim to hold-off on trading of contacts and map until we can get a minimum of engineering and monotheism for it? The world is fairly broke at the moment - we are by far the richest. Seeing as space-race is our ultimate goal, it would be worthwhile getting the entire world in-contact at some point fairly soon, but we want to make as much money / tech from this as we can. Mind you, given the traits of the civs on the other continent it isn't surprising that they are backward....

It looks like I'm up. Will possibly play tonight, more likley tomorrow night. But will wait for discussions on immediate objectives first (especially trading).

 

[Northern Pike]

Is the aim to hold-off on trading of contacts and map until we can get a minimum of engineering and monotheism for it? The world is fairly broke at the moment - we are by far the richest. Seeing as space-race is our ultimate goal, it would be worthwhile getting the entire world in-contact at some point fairly soon, but we want to make as much money / tech from this as we can.

It's a difficult choice between promoting the overall tech pace and our own relative tech position. I think that at the moment, without a library or a marketplace built, we have to be concerned about the latter; so I wouldn't sacrifice our position as the only broker between the two continents except for a substantial reward, whether that takes the exact form of Engineering and Monotheism or not. Also, the sheer trade value of our contacts and map doesn't seem to be that great; it's more a question of the deals we can make while we're the only civ in touch with both continents.

 

[ainwood]

IT
Ottomans start sistenes
Zulu archer settler turns-up - going for OUR iron!
Madrid-settler / warrior
Barcelone -> Worker / Worker

Turn 1: 530 BC:
No New techs.
Found Logrono. Zulus foiled! => Temple

Turn 2: 510 BC
Zulus head off in same direction as french.
Valencia Marketplace => Barracks
Ciudad de la Luna Barracks -> horse
Indians start HG, French Sun Tzus.
Madrid Warrior - > Settler.
MM Valencia to take advantage of gold & marketplace and get an extra 2 GPT.

Sell Monarchy to the Aztecs for 53 gold + WM +> only aztecs (53 gold) and Iroquois (0) gold don't have it over there....Better us sell it than another civ.

IT
Toledo Marketplace => Horseman
Pamplona spearman => Barracks.

Turn 3
Madrid MM to stop rioting
Toldedo constrained by no aquaduct. MM so horseman is still in 5 (6 per turn), but commerce promoted.
Move warrior to make french settler / warrior detour around us

IT
Americans and Japanese start SunTzus.

Turn 4: 470 BC
Zulu have workers for sale, but I think our money is better spent elsewhere.


IT
Santiago Market - barracks
Aldea de ribannah Barracks - horseman.

Turn 5:
France now have engineering - they want all our gold + 80 per turn!
It looks like everyone else is poor - must be tied-up in GPT deals, because when I try to trade all communications:
Ottomans: Can afford 18 GPT
England: Can't afford 1 GT!
India: Can't afford 1 GPT
Shaka Can't afford 1 GPT
France: Can't afford 1 GPT
Celts: Can't afford 1 GPT

Given the high-price and the lack of anyone that can afford it for on-sale, I pass. Sell incense to Ottomans for 6 GPT though, to try and prevent him buying anything.


Iron is connected, so we can't run our settler / warrior factory. We have almost closed-out the second ring. Because space is scare, I don't think this is an immediate problem, although we want settlers when we start our conquest. I decide to continue with settlers - I'll drop it to a 4-turn settler factory.


IT: Ottomans appear heading for same settler spot. We've stopped the french, and we'll settle it first.

Turn 6: 430 BC
Build Valladolid to try and crowd horses from France. Is RCP 8, and starts temple.
MM Barcelona so that food isn't wasted. Ribby gets the cow for a turn.

Ottomans have purchased / finished engineering. Seeing as they can't afforf 1 GPT, I say they bought it.
France will sell it for 500 gold + 22 / turn. I agree, and sell it to gandhi for monotheism +35 gold.
Sell Hiawatha monarch for 18 gold + world map...
Sell Monotheism to Japan for 62 GPT + 30 gold.
Ottomans have theology and chivalry for sale - only problem is that no-one can afford it if we buy it. France have 34 GPT, so they will pick it up next turn. Osman wants 100 GPT for chivalry (the cheaper), so I will wait.

We are now researching invention.


Turn 7: 410 BC
Zaragoza marketplace => Barracks.
Pamplona expands to trap another fur - will raod that ASAP for sale.
France hasn't bought anything, so neither do I.
Hurry temple in valladolid, to crowd rouen. France do have horses by chartres though.
Disband galley to save maintenance.

Turn 8:
Seville: Courthouse -> Barracks
Valladolid temple => Courthouse.
First horse in toledo.

India and france both have chivalry.
England, zulu celts have no cash.
On the other continent, Japan can afford about 3 GPT.
Gandhi has no money, Ottomans 35 / turn, France not a bean. We can't on-sell anything, and we shouldn't waste our contact trades yet either.

Turn 9:
Madrid builds settler.
Valencia - barracks => MI
Asturias temple = > barracks
Foudn Palma - Barracks.
Rush temple in logrono.


IT
England and celts sign pecase treaty
Turn 10:
Santiago -> Barracks / horsemen (10 shields/turn)
Logrono temple => barracks
Kyoto complete HG.
French start SunTzus, but ottomans finish it in Uskudar



Summary:
I am building a mix of horses (for upgrades to knights) and medieval infantry - although I prefer knights, I'm not sure if we can realistically afford too many upgrades if we want to buy techs. We'll need to keep our reputation fairly clean in any wars too, so we don't jeopardise the utilmate space-race aim which will need lots of trading. When the second furst are hooked-up, they are tradeable. I am clearing a couple of jungle tiles in the south, because the cities down there are cramped for space.

The contacts and map are great for putting a deal on the table and seeing if anyone has any gold per turn on-offer.

Madrid is a very dodgy 4-turn factory, wasting quite a few shields. I give it one turn at base (+7 FPT), one turn with a taxman at +3 fpt, and give the cow to ribby. Then two turns at 5 FPT, but waste a lot of shields (about 7). Maybe only want to do this for a few more turns... There is a settler out past toledo that is going to settle at RCP8 to close-out the second ring.

 

[Northern Pike]

I haven't had time to look at the save yet, but that all sounds good.

 

[a space oddity]

Ditto!

 

[Northern Pike]

Some thoughts on empire management:

The time has come for us to move our worker pump from Barcelona to Seville, which is second-ring and can't get beyond size six without an aqueduct anyway. All we need to do about this right now is switch Seville from its barracks build to a granary. When the granary is completed in six turns, Seville can begin producing workers while Barcelona starts a marketplace.

Let's move the eight workers clearing jungle outside Vitoria back to our first ring as soon as they finish that job. There's plenty to be done around Zaragoza and Asturias.

Santiago is the best city we've got that has a marketplace, and I'd like to see it reach the highest population it can keep happy at 0% lux, evidently eight. If we accept a one-turn delay in the production of its horseman, we can MM it to grow to size seven in four turns, and then merge a worker into it.

I'd be inclined to merge workers into Valencia until it reaches its maximum happy population, too. Merging is a less attractive option before a city reaches size seven, but we need to get more out of Valencia's marketplace and its high-commerce location.

Judging by the example of Seville, a courthouse in one of our second-ring cities cuts corruption from a half to a third. I think this justifies switching Pamplona's barracks build to a courthouse.

Murcia and Toledo will both be in a position to skim off a free worker when they complete their current builds.

Murcia should be assigned the iron hill presently being worked by CdB.

 

[a space oddity]

I just realised I'm up now, I can probably play tomorrow.

 

[a space oddity]

Sorry guys, I didn't make it this weekend. I'm going to try again tomorrow, if I haven't posted by 18:00 CET (=17:00 GMT), just skip me.

 

[a space oddity]

pre-turn
Our little republic is looking fine.
Japan has money to spend on us, let's take it: Engineering to Japan for 24gpt and 94g.
MM toledo, that needs an aqueduct to grow anyway, to get the MedInf 1 turn quicker.
Press enter.

IT
Zzz

turn 1 - 330BC
The Ottoman will be one hard nut to crack, the own Sun Tzu's too.
Walk the settler to ring 8, crowding the english city of Norwich.

IT
The English demand contact with America. Since it's the interturn they'll sell it right away, so knowing that we are not ready, I refuse! They declare war.

turn 2 - 310BC
I upgrade 3 reg warriors to Med Infs and send them to our freshly founded city Cordoba.
I want the English to split their forces between us and the celts, so sign the Celts for Monotheism, they'll put in their 20g as well.
Since the contacts will be demanded by more AI now, I'll try to make the best out of it:
Get Chivalry from France for WM, Contact with America and 70g.
Embassy in Delhi for 40g, ally them against England for Contact with America.
Embassy in Sogut for 86g, ally them against England for Contact with America and the Iroqs.
Sell them contact with the Aztecs for WM and 51g (all they have).
Sell France contact with the Iroqs for WM and 72g (all they have), sell that to India for 29g and Wm (all they have).
Sell the Aztecs Contact with India for 41g and WM.
Sell Japan Contact wwith India for 23g and WM, etc until all the world is pennyless.
Still they'll all know each other from now on... I wish we could have gottn more out of it.
BTW the other continent is warring too, Japan is destroying the Aztecs.

IT
Our Palace gets its first extension.

turn 3 - 290BC
Upgrade one Horse to Knight.
Buy Invention from Japan for 37gpt and 445g.

IT
The first English unit we see is an Archer.
Seville Rax -> Knight
Pamplona Rax -> Med Inf

turn 4 - 270BC
Our Catapults redline the Archer, our Med Inf kills it.
Rush the Temple in Santander, to enable sacking the enterainer and let it to grow again, and work on our culture

IT
An English Med Inf shows up.
Santander Temple -> Harbor

turn 5 - 250BC
Put our stack in position to take Norwich next turn.

IT
Vitoria Temple -> Worker
Our Northern Iron depletes!

turn 6 - 230BC
Norwich Captured at the cost of one Med Inf, our catapults had no effect.

I have to leave it here. I hope I've done enough to divert Englands attention, since we've no force to speak of and they will easily out-produce us. I think we will have to take it slow and try to get at the choke points, and sue for peace when the alliences ends. If it all blows up in our face just blame me for it.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good start against the English. We needed to go to war with them anyway, so we have nothing to regret there.

It's too bad that better brokering opportunities didn't arise while we held our monopoly on intercontinental contacts, but none of that was within our control.

 

[mad-bax]

Agreed.
War with the English was inevitable, and necessary. I have the save, and for once I can say I will definitely play.

I am not too concerned with the Ottomans yet. On the contrary, for a fast tech pace having a strong AI is good. Once we can research at their pace we may be able to run at 3 turns per tech. We have good land, and will soon have more good land. Once we get to steam we should be able to control the Ottomans well enough, and even persuade the Zulu and French into a war with them. We should cuddle up to all three of these nations IMHO, at least for a while.

Looking forward to playing....

 

[Northern Pike]

MB, at the risk of sounding grossly self-satisfied , my ideas in post #131 above about moving our worker pump to Seville, and getting Santiago and Valencia up to useful sizes with worker merges, are still applicable and would still help us a lot. Murcia still needs to be given the use of CdB's iron hill, too.

We've got almost two workers per city, so some merges aren't going to harm the development of our empire. A space victory in the thirteenth century is a hugely ambitious objective, and we aren't likely even to approach it if we passively accept natural population growth.

The Celts will give us three workers for Engineering, and I don't see any reason not to do it. The Celts may be on their way out--at least, their capital seems to be the front line--so we should check constantly to see if we can pick up more of their workers.

 

[a space oddity]

Sorry NP, I knew you had some good ideas which I completely seem to have ignored , except from moving the settlers in the for south back to the center. The only excuse I can give is that I was determined to get at least some turns done. Still, I should've taken the time to check your post.

 

[Northern Pike]

No problem. Sometimes finding the time to play is hard enough, and absorbing all the Talmudic commentary is just too much--as any member of Team Offa could tell you, though I suppose you can't look at that thread at the moment.

 

[mad-bax]

Sorry NP, but I didn't read your post before playing. In any event I did perform a couple of worker merges, albeit for a different reason, and I didn't buy the workers from the Celts because I got into difficulty with the English and needed the money to short rush units.

Here is the >>SAVE<<

Turnlog
(0)230BC: Pre-turn
Press next turn

IBT:
Stack of English archers appear near Norwich.
The English have 9 units about to attack this city.

(1)210BC:
The situation at Cordoba and Norwich is serious. We could lose both cities.
Our military alliances could yet cause us problems.
Short rush MDI in Cuidad de la Luna with Pike
Do the same in Valencia and Toledo
Short rush Knights in Zaragosa and Aldea de Ribbanah with granary.
Rush walls in Cordoba
Upgrade a rWarrior in Toledo to MDI.

Not sure how this will go.

IBT:
Wow!! Mass retreat. The whole stack has turned on its' heals.

Cordoba Walls - Spear

The Zulu start Leos.

(2)190BC:
Bombard English archer and warrior. Both hit.
Kill archer with vknight
Kill warrior with rMDI.
Neither promote.

Put MDI on moutain to spy on Newcastle. Top defender is an rPike.

IBT:
The English stack return - two fold, and we lose an MDI There ar 17 units arraigned against Norwich now.
Murcia Market - Knight.

(3)170BC:
Found Teruel - Pike
rMDI kills rMDI but is redlined.
rknight kills vMDI after bombardment.

IBT:
The English stack retreats again.
Lose another MDI. My kill rate sucks
Asturia Barracks - knight.

(4)150BC:
Found Almeria - Pike
A slip on the mouse button means I rush a knight for 244g. Sorry about that.
I think I'll save our money for a while :whistle:

IBT:
The Ottomans start Bachs.
An MDI attack on our vMDI fortified on a mountain gets our man promoted.

(5)130BC:
Rush walls in Norwich.

IBT:
The English arrive again. Now they have 22 units including 3 knights. 1 knight attacks Norwich and dies.

English land a spear next to Santiago.

(6)110BC:
Hurry knight in Santiago
Cover workers near Santiago with a warrior. Spear shouldn't attack. I hope.

IBT:
Ottomans build Sistines

(7)90BC:
Take Newcastle with no losses.
Kill a stray MDI.
The question is what should I do now? Will the English stacks turn around and try to re-take Newcastle? I hope so, since our core is exposed somewhat.

Buy Gunpowder from Joan for 313g ad 42gpt
Sell gunpowder to the Zulu for Theology + WM + 61g + 1gpt (Not sure that 1gpt is worth the risk to our rep, but I doubt we want a war with them soon.)

9 turns to go on our MAs. Not good.

IBT:
Well, the English do the right thing and turn back to re-take Newcastle. Which they will, unless I abandon it - which of course I must.

The English land a warrior at Santiago.

(8)70BC:
OK - So here's the plan. I'll abandon Newcastle, and try to lure the English units back to their own territory by attacking Hastings - which unfortunately is on a hill. I'll take our 2 cats with me.

Kill spear with eMDI and generate a leader. There doesn't appear to be a suitable place for the FP - Except *maybe* Pamplona or Cordoba, and the only wonder we can build is Leo's, which is always useful.

Lose warrior trying to kill english warrior. Then kill him with knight which promotes to elite.

IBT:
Kill 3 MDI and a knight. Lose 1 MDI - The *elite.
The English advance. I may have to attack the stack, otherwise we could be in trouble. The kill rate will be appalling though.

(9)50BC:
Kill 2 MDI, 1 sword and 2 archers for no loss. There are now 17 visible english units.

Hurry FP in Pamplona. Hope this is OK.

Not much else I can do.

IBT:
Osman pops up and asks to buy incense. Hmmm... OK for WM, 66g and 4gpt. He is now gracious.
Lose a knight to a knight. MDI retreats an English knight attack.

(10)30BC:
Short rush a knight in Toledo, and disband a warrior into the city to get the knight next turn. This city needs a mined plain to get to 10spt urgently. The scientist gets moved to Norwich.

I have left the movement in our two settlers which should found cities near the FP once the english longbow is dead.

I have killed the settler factory in Madrid, mainly because I'm stupid, but partly, in my defence because I couldn't work out how to get a unit and a settler in 4. So I built two settlers, intending to get a knight next.

There is a stack of 5 knights about to attack Hastings. It's on a hill, so the next up can decide if it's worth it. Personally I would definitely do it. Every town we can take is a huge bonus.

The Ottomans have Entremont, and are at war with the English of course. I don't know how long we can sustain the war, but we have 6 turns in the MAs left to run.

Cuidad de la Luna is marginal. It may get sacked. The Pike that completes this turn should be upgraded to musket immediately so that it can be fortified next turn ready for the assault. There is another pike completing in Teruel. That can be sent to Luna too and upgraded if necessary. There are two workers on the Andalusia tile and the one to the SE of it that can be joined to Luna next turn to get the city defensive bonus. A couple of muskets and a pike in a city with some knights and MDI should hold I hope. I spent all our gold trying to arrange a plausible defence I'm afraid.

Anyway, I think I've run out of straws to clutch.

In fact, I think the English are gassed, it's just unfortunate that their entire army is in our territory. I was very conscious of not depleting our army to take out their stack, but in retrospect maybe I should have spent the shields.

Please review all the gpt deals we have.
India - Alliance vs English 6 turns left.
Japan - 26gpt to us - 4 turns left. 37gpt from us - 7 turns left.
Zulu - 1gpt to us - 17 turns left.
France - 42gpt from us - 17 turns left.
Celts - Alliance vs English - 6 turns left.
Ottomans - alliance vs English - 6 turns left. 4gpt to us in return for incense - 19 turns left.

Good luck

IBT:
The entire English army moves onto the Mountain next to de la Luna.

(11)10BC: Bonus turns
Captured Hastings for no loss.
Did all the things for Cuidad de la Luna that I mentioned above.

IBT:
The English have made a serious error! They think Cuidad de la Luna is too strong and so they bypass it heading for undefended Valencia. They are all on a plains tile. Tut tut.

(12)10AD:
Kill a lone pike near Norwich.
Kill a longbow and a spear near Pamplona. We can now settle here safely.
Use all our units to attack the stack of archers and MDI. There are 17 of them. I run out of units leaving a single longbow with no losses.
Risk our musket to take out the last longbow, and he wins. I think that's 21 straight wins for our side, and my kill ratio looks respectable(ish) now.

Quick check of F3 and we are no longer weak compared to the English. I think we can carry on the war if necessary.

Kill a spear near Hastings.

(13)30AD:
Found Leon
Lost an MDI against a knight. Killed the knight with another knight.


I really am done now. I just wanted to get that out of the way.

If it were me I'd abandon Teruel. We can then put a town 1T north and 1T south of its' current location and fill the first ring around Pamplona. It might not be the ideal site for the FP, but at least we have it.