Gentlemen, any news?
KA01B - A Simple Deity Space Race - PtW Roster
- Thread starter Karasu
- Start date
Gentlemen, any news?
Northern Pike
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I do apologize; my handling of this situation has been poor. I should have asked for a skip as soon as problems developed with my schedule, but it's easier to make that resolution than to keep it. 
I'll either p___ or get off the pot by tomorrow morning, European time.
I'll either p___ or get off the pot by tomorrow morning, European time.
Northern Pike
Deity
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Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
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- Messages
- 6,673
350 (0): As per the above discussion, I won't press on any farther against the French. We're in a slightly delicate position with conquered cities which are in resistance, and so lightly garrisoned (though I agree with this approach) that they're likely to remain in resistance.
I switch Seville from aqueduct to granary, so it can become our next worker factory. We need workers now as much as ever, though for merging rather than labour.
The Aztecs join France's war against us.
We lose three knights to MDI attacking out of Tours. Only a miraculous victory by a redlined knight against an attacking French knight keeps the butcher's bill from being higher.
Seville granary --> worker, Murcia aqueduct --> bank, CdlLuna marketplace --> bank.
360 (1): We have war weariness, so I grant the French peace earlier than I'd planned, and hope that nothing flips before we can complete the starve-down process. All they'll give us is 200 gold, but that's exact full value.
We send 1140 gold and incense to the Japanese for Chemistry. In an ordinary game I might not throw away a min research run this far advanced, but this game is about the tech pace, and we can't wait another twelve turns for anything to happen on the science front.
We get Physics from the French for 83 gpt and furs, and send it on to the Ottomans along with 12 gpt and 10 gold for Metallurgy, after which we're fully caught up in required techs.
We send the Celts Theology for 2 workers, 21 gold, and their WM.
We give the Indians Metallurgy and Physics for Democracy, 5 gpt, 41 gold, and their WM (full value), and revolt to democracy (just one interturn of anarchy, of course).
We destroy an American spear/archer team landed near Santiago, without loss.
370 (2): I merge three workers into Toledo.
AdRibannah marketplace --> aqueduct.
The Japanese complete Magellan.
Dijon flips back to the French, a turn before two warriors would have arrived to bolster its garrison.
380 (3): I merge four workers into Valencia.
The Americans give us Free Artistry, 21 gold, and their TM for peace. We're now caught up even in optional techs.
Barcelona marketplace --> bank, Chartres temple (rushed) --> worker.
Hastings flips back to the English. When did razing go out of style?
390 (4): Three rival civs have Magnetism.
We trade horses to the Americans for wines.
I merge two workers into Santiago.
We found the new second-ring city of Lugo between Rouen and CdBamrapido. This is a cramped site, of course, but it'll allow us to work a few good tiles with second- rather than third-ring citizens.
400 (5): CdBamrapido harbour --> worker, Reading temple (rushed) --> cannon, Asturias marketplace --> worker (a skim-off).
410 (6): As we continue putting the FP's second ring together, I found Ciudad Manana, named in honour of the recent pace of my play
, two tiles north of Amiens.
I merge a worker into Logrono.
Brighton temple (rushed) --> worker, Norwich temple (rushed) --> worker.
420 (7): We found Cadiz as a second-ring fishing village for the FP.
I merge a worker into Logrono.
The three tech leaders--Japan, France, and the Ottomans--have Military Tradition.
I trade the Zulus Metallurgy for a worker and their WM--really just a gift, to increase the tech place.
The Aztecs give us 8 gpt, 31 gold, and their WM for peace--rather oddly, since it was a compete phony war. We're now at peace with the whole world.
Birmingham temple --> harbour, Logrono courthouse --> marketplace.
430 (8): The French have ToG, and are in the IA.
I merge three workers into CdlLuna.
The English and the Celts make peace. What, 'ad them two fallen out then?
Madrid and Santiago complete our first two banks. Madrid begins a skimmed-off worker, Santiago our first Conquistador.
Jaen and Palma marketplace --> aqueduct.
440 (9): Hmm. I didn't want to buy ToG from the French at the monopoly price last turn, but now the French, Ottomans, Indians, and Japanese all have ToG, Magnetism, and MilTrad. Well, two purchases @5th from civs which want our furs should be cheaper than one @2nd from a civ which doesn't. So, 73 gpt and furs (worth 23 gpt) to Japan for Magnetism, 75 gpt and furs (worth 17 gpt) to the Ottomans for ToG, and we're in the Industrial Age.
The Ottomans and (more surprisingly) the French have Nationalism.
We give the Zulus ToG for two workers, 26 gold, and their WM.
I abandon Grenoble, which was pushing all our cities in the FP's second ring into the third, after rushing four workers out of it.
Valencia bank --> library (but feel free to change this), Pamplona bank --> Conquistador.
We get a palace expansion.
450 (10): Nothing much.
I switch Seville from aqueduct to granary, so it can become our next worker factory. We need workers now as much as ever, though for merging rather than labour.
The Aztecs join France's war against us.
We lose three knights to MDI attacking out of Tours. Only a miraculous victory by a redlined knight against an attacking French knight keeps the butcher's bill from being higher.
Seville granary --> worker, Murcia aqueduct --> bank, CdlLuna marketplace --> bank.
360 (1): We have war weariness, so I grant the French peace earlier than I'd planned, and hope that nothing flips before we can complete the starve-down process. All they'll give us is 200 gold, but that's exact full value.
We send 1140 gold and incense to the Japanese for Chemistry. In an ordinary game I might not throw away a min research run this far advanced, but this game is about the tech pace, and we can't wait another twelve turns for anything to happen on the science front.
We get Physics from the French for 83 gpt and furs, and send it on to the Ottomans along with 12 gpt and 10 gold for Metallurgy, after which we're fully caught up in required techs.
We send the Celts Theology for 2 workers, 21 gold, and their WM.
We give the Indians Metallurgy and Physics for Democracy, 5 gpt, 41 gold, and their WM (full value), and revolt to democracy (just one interturn of anarchy, of course).
We destroy an American spear/archer team landed near Santiago, without loss.
370 (2): I merge three workers into Toledo.
AdRibannah marketplace --> aqueduct.
The Japanese complete Magellan.
Dijon flips back to the French, a turn before two warriors would have arrived to bolster its garrison.
380 (3): I merge four workers into Valencia.
The Americans give us Free Artistry, 21 gold, and their TM for peace. We're now caught up even in optional techs.
Barcelona marketplace --> bank, Chartres temple (rushed) --> worker.
Hastings flips back to the English. When did razing go out of style?
390 (4): Three rival civs have Magnetism.
We trade horses to the Americans for wines.
I merge two workers into Santiago.
We found the new second-ring city of Lugo between Rouen and CdBamrapido. This is a cramped site, of course, but it'll allow us to work a few good tiles with second- rather than third-ring citizens.
400 (5): CdBamrapido harbour --> worker, Reading temple (rushed) --> cannon, Asturias marketplace --> worker (a skim-off).
410 (6): As we continue putting the FP's second ring together, I found Ciudad Manana, named in honour of the recent pace of my play
, two tiles north of Amiens.I merge a worker into Logrono.
Brighton temple (rushed) --> worker, Norwich temple (rushed) --> worker.
420 (7): We found Cadiz as a second-ring fishing village for the FP.
I merge a worker into Logrono.
The three tech leaders--Japan, France, and the Ottomans--have Military Tradition.
I trade the Zulus Metallurgy for a worker and their WM--really just a gift, to increase the tech place.
The Aztecs give us 8 gpt, 31 gold, and their WM for peace--rather oddly, since it was a compete phony war. We're now at peace with the whole world.
Birmingham temple --> harbour, Logrono courthouse --> marketplace.
430 (8): The French have ToG, and are in the IA.
I merge three workers into CdlLuna.
The English and the Celts make peace. What, 'ad them two fallen out then?
Madrid and Santiago complete our first two banks. Madrid begins a skimmed-off worker, Santiago our first Conquistador.
Jaen and Palma marketplace --> aqueduct.
440 (9): Hmm. I didn't want to buy ToG from the French at the monopoly price last turn, but now the French, Ottomans, Indians, and Japanese all have ToG, Magnetism, and MilTrad. Well, two purchases @5th from civs which want our furs should be cheaper than one @2nd from a civ which doesn't. So, 73 gpt and furs (worth 23 gpt) to Japan for Magnetism, 75 gpt and furs (worth 17 gpt) to the Ottomans for ToG, and we're in the Industrial Age.
The Ottomans and (more surprisingly) the French have Nationalism.
We give the Zulus ToG for two workers, 26 gold, and their WM.
I abandon Grenoble, which was pushing all our cities in the FP's second ring into the third, after rushing four workers out of it.
Valencia bank --> library (but feel free to change this), Pamplona bank --> Conquistador.
We get a palace expansion.
450 (10): Nothing much.
Northern Pike
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Well, as long as this game isn't decided by my luck with flips, I like the way our position is developing. We're at 255 gpt even with 243 gpt outgoing to other civs.
The English are so far behind that they're never going to contribute to the overall tech pace again. If we want to fight one more war just to get our GA and perhaps grab some extra land, they're the obvious victim. I wouldn't attack even them with the small army we've got at the moment, though.
Three civs are ahead of us by Nationalism, and four by Military Tradition, but we're even with the leaders in required techs.
I gave away some techs for token compensation in this round, but we could certainly go a lot further down this road if we feel the science pace isn't fast enough.
Amiens, Chartres, Vitoria, Rouen, and Santander have those large garrisons as protection against more flips--so let's not have any reflexive disbanding of warriors, please.
The English are so far behind that they're never going to contribute to the overall tech pace again. If we want to fight one more war just to get our GA and perhaps grab some extra land, they're the obvious victim. I wouldn't attack even them with the small army we've got at the moment, though.
Three civs are ahead of us by Nationalism, and four by Military Tradition, but we're even with the leaders in required techs.
I gave away some techs for token compensation in this round, but we could certainly go a lot further down this road if we feel the science pace isn't fast enough.
Amiens, Chartres, Vitoria, Rouen, and Santander have those large garrisons as protection against more flips--so let's not have any reflexive disbanding of warriors, please.
Northern Pike
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New in the north:
We're looking good! I esp. like our financial position, I'm sure this is going to prove important.
Does anyone know whether the Ottoman had their GA already? If not, they have the chance using the Sipahi now that they know Mil Trad.
Does anyone know whether the Ottoman had their GA already? If not, they have the chance using the Sipahi now that they know Mil Trad.
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So - is it me up next?
What are our short-term goals? I presume that the mains ones are to keep the trading going, and also anything that improves cash-flow. I see a couple of conquistadors under construction, so a few more of those in case we go to war and need to disconnect resources? Anything else? I'd like to get a few more units ready, in case the AI decides we look like a ripe target. Knights for upgrade to Cavs, and in the short-term they're OK for defense as well.
What are our short-term goals? I presume that the mains ones are to keep the trading going, and also anything that improves cash-flow. I see a couple of conquistadors under construction, so a few more of those in case we go to war and need to disconnect resources? Anything else? I'd like to get a few more units ready, in case the AI decides we look like a ripe target. Knights for upgrade to Cavs, and in the short-term they're OK for defense as well.
Northern Pike
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Yes, you're up.
That looks like a sound assessment of our priorities. Getting our west-coast cities fully developed to generate commerce, which will require worker merges once they have marketplaces and aqueducts, is important too.
I started building Conquistadors more so that we can trigger our GA whenever we want than because I anticipate strikes against enemy resources. In the ideal case, we'd fight one more war against the English, get our GA, grab most or all of their land (principally to improve our chances of getting the resources we can't see yet), and then remain at peace until our space victory.
That looks like a sound assessment of our priorities. Getting our west-coast cities fully developed to generate commerce, which will require worker merges once they have marketplaces and aqueducts, is important too.
I started building Conquistadors more so that we can trigger our GA whenever we want than because I anticipate strikes against enemy resources. In the ideal case, we'd fight one more war against the English, get our GA, grab most or all of their land (principally to improve our chances of getting the resources we can't see yet), and then remain at peace until our space victory.
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Well, it was a very quiet set of turns - almost feel like I contributed virtually zero. 
The tech pace has died - I bought Military tradition, but balked at paying better part of 6000 (equivalent) for Nationalism, and that's the only thing for sale!
Most of the world is allied against the zulu, and seeing as they have nationalism and the wrath of the ottoman sipahi, perhaps we can buy it off them when they're almost dead... All there neighbours are at war with them too.
turn log:
All looks OK, press enter:
IT:
Toledo Bank -> Library
Valladolid Marketplace -> Bank
Lose our Gems,
Turn 1: 460 AD:
Trade Iroquois mettalurgy for gems.
Buy military tradition from France for 1150 and horses.
IT:
Leon - Marketplace -> Aquaduct
Zamora Marketplace -> Bank.
83 GPT deal with france expires.
Turn 2 :470
Get 2 GPT from brennus for furs -> Best deal I could get...
IT:
Madrid Barracks -> Cav.
Ribannah Aquaguct -> Bank
Santiago Conquistador -> Library
Got lost somewhere....
Turn 4: 490 AD:
Not much....
Turn 5:
Valencia library -> Cavalry.
Ciudad da luna bank -> Cav.
Tech pace is very slow - nationalism is the only thing for sale, unless they have all gone for communism or espionage...
Adea de ribannah changed to harbout -> Currently growth is zero, but a harbour means we can add 5 more citizens for an extra 15 GPT.
Ditto for santiago.
IT:
Ottomans declare on Zulu.
Zaragoza bank -> Cavalry.
Cordoba Marketplace -> aquaduct.
Turn 6:
Trade TOG to aztecs for spices.
IT:
Turn 7:
Toledo library -> Cav.
Murcia bank - Library.
Lots of celebrations.
IT
Turn 8:
Jean aquaduct -> Harbour
Santiago harbour -> Library
Best deal we can get on nationalism is 2500 gold + 190 GPT....
IT:
Turn 9:
Played around with some micromanagement of coastal cities to eek a few more GPT out.
IT:
France and ottomans gang-up on zulu (Last turn it was iroquois and ottomans).
Now india and france sign against Zulu...
Turn 10:
Merida - Bank -> Library.
Aldea de ribannah harbour -> Bank.
Logrono marketplace -> aquaduct
I have some native workers heading towards the west-coast cities to merge for more cash per turn (I merged one with Ribannah already).
The tech pace has died - I bought Military tradition, but balked at paying better part of 6000 (equivalent) for Nationalism, and that's the only thing for sale!
Most of the world is allied against the zulu, and seeing as they have nationalism and the wrath of the ottoman sipahi, perhaps we can buy it off them when they're almost dead... All there neighbours are at war with them too.
turn log:
All looks OK, press enter:
IT:
Toledo Bank -> Library
Valladolid Marketplace -> Bank
Lose our Gems,
Turn 1: 460 AD:
Trade Iroquois mettalurgy for gems.
Buy military tradition from France for 1150 and horses.
IT:
Leon - Marketplace -> Aquaduct
Zamora Marketplace -> Bank.
83 GPT deal with france expires.
Turn 2 :470
Get 2 GPT from brennus for furs -> Best deal I could get...
IT:
Madrid Barracks -> Cav.
Ribannah Aquaguct -> Bank
Santiago Conquistador -> Library
Got lost somewhere....
Turn 4: 490 AD:
Not much....
Turn 5:
Valencia library -> Cavalry.
Ciudad da luna bank -> Cav.
Tech pace is very slow - nationalism is the only thing for sale, unless they have all gone for communism or espionage...
Adea de ribannah changed to harbout -> Currently growth is zero, but a harbour means we can add 5 more citizens for an extra 15 GPT.
Ditto for santiago.
IT:
Ottomans declare on Zulu.
Zaragoza bank -> Cavalry.
Cordoba Marketplace -> aquaduct.
Turn 6:
Trade TOG to aztecs for spices.
IT:
Turn 7:
Toledo library -> Cav.
Murcia bank - Library.
Lots of celebrations.
IT
Turn 8:
Jean aquaduct -> Harbour
Santiago harbour -> Library
Best deal we can get on nationalism is 2500 gold + 190 GPT....
IT:
Turn 9:
Played around with some micromanagement of coastal cities to eek a few more GPT out.
IT:
France and ottomans gang-up on zulu (Last turn it was iroquois and ottomans).
Now india and france sign against Zulu...
Turn 10:
Merida - Bank -> Library.
Aldea de ribannah harbour -> Bank.
Logrono marketplace -> aquaduct
I have some native workers heading towards the west-coast cities to merge for more cash per turn (I merged one with Ribannah already).
Hmm, sounds like we should switch to self-research. Too bad there are no tools in Civ to encourage peace between the AI. Getting them to war is easy enough... 
MAybe the designers though MPPs would fill that bill, but you all know what that does, wars just last longer...
MAybe the designers though MPPs would fill that bill, but you all know what that does, wars just last longer...
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IIRC, nationalism was something like 8 turns @ -300 GPT/turn, and 17 turns at neutral cash - we're not really in an adequate position to research our way through the industrial age just yet! Might be nice to get a tech to sell though, and Nationalism doesn't fit that criteria.
We have quite a few marketplaces, banks and libraries. I started a few cavalry, just in case we need them (peace treaty expires with France next turn, for example), but those shields might be better spent on Universities and libraries in the longer term.
BTW, I noticed that Vitoria is truly spanish (all citizens), so perhaps we can delete a few warriors from there. We are >300 GPT at the moment, BTW.
We have quite a few marketplaces, banks and libraries. I started a few cavalry, just in case we need them (peace treaty expires with France next turn, for example), but those shields might be better spent on Universities and libraries in the longer term.
BTW, I noticed that Vitoria is truly spanish (all citizens), so perhaps we can delete a few warriors from there. We are >300 GPT at the moment, BTW.
Northern Pike
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That looks fine, Ainwood. 
A lull in the tech pace is normal at this point, as the AI indulges its passion for the expensive optional techs at the top of the IA tech tree.
I agree that we need to attend to our self-research capacity. I'd let the cav units we're now building complete, but after that libraries and universities should be the default builds for cities which already have aqueduct-marketplace-bank. We may want to self-research during our GA, but it would be a waste to do it without universities.
An immediate cash-rush of Jaen's harbour would quickly pay for itself, assuming we're going to merge workers into the town.
Vitoria has never had French citizens, and I didn't garrison it strongly for that reason. But it has two basic flip factors because two of its 21 tiles are French-controlled, and France's culture looked to be twice ours when I made the calculation, so four units seemed to be the minimum safe garrison. Now, I'm sorry to observe, France's culture is almost three times ours, so absolute security would require six units in Vitoria and nine in Santander.
Space, just to be certain--that was a "Got it", wasn't it?
Edit: Leon only has access to six tiles which other first-ring cities can't work, so to let an aqueduct complete there seems pointless. I'd change that build to a bank.
A lull in the tech pace is normal at this point, as the AI indulges its passion for the expensive optional techs at the top of the IA tech tree.I agree that we need to attend to our self-research capacity. I'd let the cav units we're now building complete, but after that libraries and universities should be the default builds for cities which already have aqueduct-marketplace-bank. We may want to self-research during our GA, but it would be a waste to do it without universities.
An immediate cash-rush of Jaen's harbour would quickly pay for itself, assuming we're going to merge workers into the town.
Vitoria has never had French citizens, and I didn't garrison it strongly for that reason. But it has two basic flip factors because two of its 21 tiles are French-controlled, and France's culture looked to be twice ours when I made the calculation, so four units seemed to be the minimum safe garrison. Now, I'm sorry to observe, France's culture is almost three times ours, so absolute security would require six units in Vitoria and nine in Santander.
Space, just to be certain--that was a "Got it", wasn't it?
Edit: Leon only has access to six tiles which other first-ring cities can't work, so to let an aqueduct complete there seems pointless. I'd change that build to a bank.
Err, you mean, I'm up? 
Got it.
Got it.
This is just to say that I won't be able to play tonight, but probably can tomorrow.
pre-turn
Switched Leon to Bank, as proposed by NP.
Wake our spare settler to go crowd Hastings.
Short rush the harbor in Jean, to get return on investment on the Aquaduct sooner.
Press enter
IT
Celts come talk, we swap TMs.
My aren't we popular, Japan comes knocking too. They want us to pay 40g+WM for their WM. We agree on TMs.
turn 1 - 560AD
I resist the urge to sell the Ottoman our incense, we might need it in a tech deal later.
Merge 3 workers in the Aldea.
Switch Brighton from Worker to Settler, we can cram in some more cities.
IT
America and the Ottoman sign an allience against the Zulu.
Zimbabwe completes Newton's uni.
turn 2 - 570AD
Just worker moves, we're making +508gpt.
IT
Reading flips!
turn 3 - 580AD
More worker moves, we're making +528gpt.
A lot of the Cav builds complete, maybe we should start thinking about get some of those cities back.
We need some more settlers, to be able to raze and replace.
IT
Zzz
turn 4 - 590AD
Three civs have Medicine, buy it from the Ottoman for Incense and 2084g straight.
Sell Medicine, Furs, 70gpt and 1470g to France for Nationalism.
Sell Madicine to India for WM, 37gpt and 6g.
Sell Madicine to America for WM, 37gpt and 37g.
Japan and Ottoman have knowledge of Communism.
I start Steam at min and start making groups of 6 and 3 workers.
Elche founded, starts Temple, the chop will be ready in 4 turns.
IT
Our Horses for Wines deal with America ends, sell him Nationalism for Wines.
turn 5 - 600AD
France, Otto and Japan have Steam. Buy Steam Power from Japan for 125gpt and 997g.
Tell you what.... we don't have Coal, it's near Dijon, just over the border....
With the deal with France lasting for 19 turns, we may need see who possibly have 2 sources and gift that civ Steam. What d'ya reckon? And should we be starting a prebuild for ToE, do we stand a chance at all? I've got a feeling I should've seen this coming.
Switched Leon to Bank, as proposed by NP.
Wake our spare settler to go crowd Hastings.
Short rush the harbor in Jean, to get return on investment on the Aquaduct sooner.
Press enter
IT
Celts come talk, we swap TMs.
My aren't we popular, Japan comes knocking too. They want us to pay 40g+WM for their WM. We agree on TMs.
turn 1 - 560AD
I resist the urge to sell the Ottoman our incense, we might need it in a tech deal later.
Merge 3 workers in the Aldea.
Switch Brighton from Worker to Settler, we can cram in some more cities.
IT
America and the Ottoman sign an allience against the Zulu.
Zimbabwe completes Newton's uni.
turn 2 - 570AD
Just worker moves, we're making +508gpt.
IT
Reading flips!
turn 3 - 580AD
More worker moves, we're making +528gpt.
A lot of the Cav builds complete, maybe we should start thinking about get some of those cities back.
We need some more settlers, to be able to raze and replace.
IT
Zzz
turn 4 - 590AD
Three civs have Medicine, buy it from the Ottoman for Incense and 2084g straight.
Sell Medicine, Furs, 70gpt and 1470g to France for Nationalism.
Sell Madicine to India for WM, 37gpt and 6g.
Sell Madicine to America for WM, 37gpt and 37g.
Japan and Ottoman have knowledge of Communism.
I start Steam at min and start making groups of 6 and 3 workers.
Elche founded, starts Temple, the chop will be ready in 4 turns.
IT
Our Horses for Wines deal with America ends, sell him Nationalism for Wines.
turn 5 - 600AD
France, Otto and Japan have Steam. Buy Steam Power from Japan for 125gpt and 997g.
Tell you what.... we don't have Coal, it's near Dijon, just over the border....
With the deal with France lasting for 19 turns, we may need see who possibly have 2 sources and gift that civ Steam. What d'ya reckon? And should we be starting a prebuild for ToE, do we stand a chance at all? I've got a feeling I should've seen this coming.
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Kaiser_Berger
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Ouch! I think our best immediate solution is to gift someone Steam, as we don't care much about holding a tech lead.
Chances of anyone having 2 sources connected are slim, and of the three who know Steam there's one (America) that doesn't have Coal (connected) either, so we'll have to be real lucky to pull that one off.
edit: I just checked: India has one source connected and an unconnected one two jungle tiles away. I don't know whether the AI stacks workers, but I think we'd been in for a long wait.
correction: India has three sources... one on a mountain, unconnected. So India it is then. Agreed?
edit: I just checked: India has one source connected and an unconnected one two jungle tiles away. I don't know whether the AI stacks workers, but I think we'd been in for a long wait.
correction: India has three sources... one on a mountain, unconnected. So India it is then.
Agreed?Similar threads
