KhaNESII: S.P.Q.R

[Seon]

Law 1.7. General who conquers a province will automatically become the governor of that province.

In case two generals co-conquered the province, the general with the greatest amount of contribution to the war effort will become the governor.

-Proposed by Rufus.

 

[erez87]

I would very much prefer it if my fellow Consul was to discuss with me before proposing any new laws.

These aren't decisions. Just basic laws that we both thought the Senate should have some sort of say in. Or at the least - I thought so.

Also - that is how our Republic functions, I will continue to propose laws as I see fit.

I would support Law 1.7 if it had a time and title limit. A general that conquers a province will become the governor, stop being the general of any army, and only for 2 years.

 

[Ekolite]

I agree with that, but still I think it would be better if we consulted on these things.

 

[erez87]

I agree with that, but still I think it would be better if we consulted on these things.

I don't see why considering we are after all of opposing parties and ideals

 

[Seon]

OOC: Consul consult hahhahahabhahahahababa

Shoot me.

 

[erez87]

OOC: Consul consult hahhahahabhahahahababa

Shoot me.

Don't worry. You will get shot eventually

 

[theDright]

"Servius Aemilius Celsus Arrianus will speak."

"I must remind the Consuls that each has veto power over the Senate and each other. While one Consul may not wish to consult with his fellow, any laws passed that do not meet his fellow's personal approval can not and will not be made law. Proposing laws which are not supported by his fellow Senators or indeed, his fellow Consul, are a waste of time. I have also had scribes prepare an organized list of the already proposed bills, which some members of the Senate did not organize properly."

Law 1.1
The war in Pannonia - two legions, II and III, will be sent to Pannonia to deal with the raids and if possible, conquer the province.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.2
The position of Tribune of the Plebeians, abolished by Sulla, will be reestablished.
Proposed by: Titus Lucretius Longus (momo1000)

Law 1.3
Reenactment of the Gracchii Reforms - A limit will be put upon all Ager Publicus land that is leased to others. The limit will be larger than before at 750 Iugera, 250 Iugera for the eldest son and another 200 for the second son.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.4
Expansion of the Grain Dole - The grain dole will be expanded to feed all citizens, male, female, and children, that cannot afford to purchase food for the following year.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.5
All people that were exiled by Sulla will be allowed to return.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.6
Government salaries - all men employed by the senate for the coming year will be paid according to ability - A general will receive 3x military skill, an envoy will receive 2x intrigue skill. A bonus may be given to those who do exceptionally well, but they pay will be calculated at the beginning of every year the man is employed.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.7
For this year the 1st legion must be kept in Italia for peace keeping and will not be led by a general.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.8
A General who conquers a province will automatically become the governor of that province. In case two generals co-conquered the province, the general with the greatest amount of contribution to the war effort will become the governor.
Proposed by: Rufus Amidarus Laconibus

 

[theDright]

Law 1.1
The war in Pannonia - two legions, II and III, will be sent to Pannonia to deal with the raids and if possible, conquer the province.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.2
The position of Tribune of the Plebeians, abolished by Sulla, will be reestablished.
Proposed by: Titus Lucretius Longus (momo1000)

Law 1.3
Reenactment of the Gracchii Reforms - A limit will be put upon all Ager Publicus land that is leased to others. The limit will be larger than before at 750 Iugera, 250 Iugera for the eldest son and another 200 for the second son.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.4
Expansion of the Grain Dole - The grain dole will be expanded to feed all citizens, male, female, and children, that cannot afford to purchase food for the following year.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.5
All people that were exiled by Sulla will be allowed to return.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.6
Government salaries - all men employed by the senate for the coming year will be paid according to ability - A general will receive 3x military skill, an envoy will receive 2x intrigue skill. A bonus may be given to those who do exceptionally well, but they pay will be calculated at the beginning of every year the man is employed.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.7
For this year the 1st legion must be kept in Italia for peace keeping and will not be led by a general.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.8
A General who conquers a province will automatically become the governor of that province. In case two generals co-conquered the province, the general with the greatest amount of contribution to the war effort will become the governor.
Proposed by: Rufus Amidarus Laconibus

"Law 1.1 is agreeable, but does not name the generals to lead this expedition, nor the governorships of said generals."

"Law 1.2 is unnecessary. The Senate has all the power it needs to pass laws, and the Consuls are more than effective at protecting the people."

"Law 1.3 is economically disastrous, and an odd modification of the Gracchii reforms."

"Law 1.4 is acceptable, as grain from latifundia is cheap enough to justify it's expense."

"Law 1.5 is acceptable."

"Law 1.6 is unacceptable. The Senate should allocate money for each general's and envoy's expenditures if they come from the Republic treasury. If a general is made to go on campaign, he should be given a governorship. Senators have never been paid, merely for doing their duty."

"Law 1.7 is acceptable."

"Lab 1.8 is acceptable, with the stipulation that in the invasion or annexation of new territory should be carried out under the authority of one person. A second general, if necessary, should not be the first's equal."

 

[Nintz]

--- Cassius Flavius Livius ---

1.1 - Aye

1.2 - Nay

1.3 - Abstain for now

1.4 - Aye

1.5 - Abstain for now

1.6 - Abstain for now

1.7 - Aye

1.8 - Aye

 

[SamSniped]

Law 1.1
The war in Pannonia - two legions, II and III, will be sent to Pannonia to deal with the raids and if possible, conquer the province.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.2
The position of Tribune of the Plebeians, abolished by Sulla, will be reestablished.
Proposed by: Titus Lucretius Longus (momo1000)

Law 1.3
Reenactment of the Gracchii Reforms - A limit will be put upon all Ager Publicus land that is leased to others. The limit will be larger than before at 750 Iugera, 250 Iugera for the eldest son and another 200 for the second son.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.4
Expansion of the Grain Dole - The grain dole will be expanded to feed all citizens, male, female, and children, that cannot afford to purchase food for the following year.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.5
All people that were exiled by Sulla will be allowed to return.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.6
Government salaries - all men employed by the senate for the coming year will be paid according to ability - A general will receive 3x military skill, an envoy will receive 2x intrigue skill. A bonus may be given to those who do exceptionally well, but they pay will be calculated at the beginning of every year the man is employed.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.7
For this year the 1st legion must be kept in Italia for peace keeping and will not be led by a general.
Proposed by: Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius (erez87)

Law 1.8
A General who conquers a province will automatically become the governor of that province. In case two generals co-conquered the province, the general with the greatest amount of contribution to the war effort will become the governor.
Proposed by: Rufus Amidarus Laconibus

Marcus Argetius Viator

"On Law 1.1, I have already voiced my approval. The Pannonians must be dealt with.
On Law 1.2, there is no need for such.
On Law 1.3, I again voice my disapproval of the Gracchi Reforms, and ask for some other solution.
On Law 1.5, I think there should be some who are not allowed back. Not all of those who were banished were good people, I would like to remind everyone.
On Law 1.8, I think this is fair, but as others have said, there will likely be more than one general. I believe the general who gets governorship of the province should be decided upon before the fact. The general who does not get governorship of the province, on the other hand, should be granted governorship of a different province in honor of his deeds."

 

[erez87]

Make it be known that while I am consul no single man will hold two offices at the same time for the time being. There will be no general-governor, no envoy-general and no governor-envoy or any other mix of offices.

Move along.

ooc: Also don't vote yet, since it will probably not be counted anyway. For now just discussion I think does anything.

 

[theDright]

OOC: erez87, that's completely illogical. A Roman general who was on campaign was either a Consul, a Dictator, or a Governor. If you don't want someone to be a general and a governor, then go on campaign yourself.

 

[SamSniped]

Marcus Argetius Viator
"Tiberius, if I were to be the best general, and yet I held a governorship, you would go so far as to either not let me fight, or strip me of governorship to let me fight? How is that sensible?
Besides, I believe that a great general should be rewarded by being a governor after he has gained a province for the Republic, and what better way to be at the very least promised a governorship, if not granted one immediately?"

 

[erez87]

OOC: Perhaps, but current rules will make double offices overpowered in my opinion, and I want equality.

Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius
Marcus Viator. Perhaps. But while one is general he will not be a governor. That is sensible from the front of keeping everyone on equal footing.
One such great general can be granted governorship, but will not lead an army in the same time, allowing others to show their greatness.

 

[theDright]

"Equal footing? I thought you were a Roman Consul, not a Greek democrat!"

 

[erez87]

"Equal footing? I thought you were a Roman Consul, not a Greek democrat!"

So you say a single Roman should rule us all? That is monarchy talking, not a republic. Sulla's dictatorship proved one thing to me - no single person will ever have so much power in his hands while I live.

 

[theDright]

"I did not suggest that a single Roman should rule us all, except in times of crisis as mandated by the Constitution, and returning that authority to the Senate when the crisis has passed. I also didn't suggest that every Senator should be given equal rank and privileges, or that Senators or other elected offices should be granted something as demeaning as a salary. Have you forgotten the ethical code of your office? A Senator is a Senator, pure and simple. No Senator should enrich himself from the Republic's Treasury, be he a Consul, an Envoy, a Governor or not. Those leading the Legions should either be one of the Consuls, or the Governor of a Province, as is our Republic's time-honored and glorified tradition."

 

[SamSniped]

So you say a single Roman should rule us all? That is monarchy talking, not a republic. Sulla's dictatorship proved one thing to me - no single person will ever have so much power in his hands while I live.

And yet you seem to pretend to be dictator* now, while our other consul does not speak.

* referring to the Roman dictator position, not modern-day dictator.

 

[talonschild]

All Senators have an absolute right to free speech in the Senate. I would welcome Bruscius to speak, because I am sure he has ideas, and good ones. I would leap in with my own if not for the fact that Consul Tiberius has covered all salient points on my agenda.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

So you say a single Roman should rule us all? That is monarchy talking, not a republic. Sulla's dictatorship proved one thing to me - no single person will ever have so much power in his hands while I live.

And as Senators, we must abide by the Laws and Rule, and serve the republic to our utmost. I stand with you in opposing the absolute rule of an individual.

Law 1.1
Aye

Law 1.2
Aye

Law 1.3
Nay

Law 1.4
Aye

Law 1.5
Aye

Law 1.6
Aye

Law 1.7
Aye

Law 1.8
Aye