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King of the World #11: Darius I

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Civman33

    Civman33 Gunship Pilot

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    Nah, settle 1N to get immediate access to those horses, though it will take a turn.

    The immortals are very useful, so get to them as fast as possible.

    Go east. Asoka is one of those religion snaggers, wonder-builders, and 25% more than Gandhi in training units. By the time you'll get your immortals running, he would probably have 4-5 units.

    Babylon is another story. They don't have alot of value, though they might grow the city a bit for you. But yeah, that floodplain-Incense tile is out of this world.

    So Neal, what do you think?
     
  2. Insanity_X

    Insanity_X Warlord

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    Kill Hammy, then Asoka. If Asoka founds a religion (and without many other zealots/people starting with mysticism he probalbly will) he's likely to have spread it around more meaning that when you (or he if he somehow pops a prophet before you kill him) shines his holy capital it'll be worth more without you spending hammers on missionaries.

    Also, if you kill Asoka first it just means that Hammy's going to be harder to kill later. Asoka will still have a small army after you kill Hammy.
     
  3. AndrewN

    AndrewN Prince

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    I would like to echo Civman33. You won't have much time at this level to get a successful rush in. The time it will take to get a second city up, the horses pastured and roads built will probably be too late. Plus the second city will have only one function, get the hoses usable.

    I will admit I am not the best rusher, but I can't get it done at Monarch so I suspect you will have problems here, but it is your game so you can ruin it your way and I will ruin it mine :)

    I also suspect you will have time to rush one civ. Asoka has the nicest capital square but Hammy has the floodplains. Personally I would favour the floodplains, you can get 3 cottage cities based around them.
     
  4. IAM

    IAM Emperor

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    Man play the game. FOUR pages and no second turn? What am I missing work for?! :rolleyes:

    This is the point where people enamored with their success begin to lose IT.:crazyeye:

    I did like the posted lose. Makes the whole play so much better. Good Fortune!
     
  5. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    @AndrewN
    Spoiler :

    Sorry, but you're just wrong about this. Having a second city will speed up the rush quite a bit, since it really is about production. If you have played the Earth scenarios (as Neal has) you would know that there's a distinct lack of strategic resources in the middle east and India, so it's not like Hammi or Ashoka is gonna pop copper in their BFC. In my shadow game I settled 1W, built a worker while researching fishing, then a work boat and warrior while growing to size 3, then a settler to claim the horses and help built immortals, barracks in both cities and a 2nd worker, and THEN immortals. So how badly did all of this delay hurt my rush? By 1650BC I had 3 AI capitals (Babylon, Uruk, and Delhi), plus 2 other cities that Ashoka founded. I only faced warriors and archers. Ashoka is dead. I haven't decided whether to clean up the remnants of Babylon and Sumeria or not - they could be useful buffers, and their remaining cities are crap. I'm not an immortal player - much of what I did could be improved. If even a monarch player like me could do this, Neal will have no trouble.
    EDIT: A common misconception is that this is a true immortal level game. The reality is that the Earth scenarios do not give the AIs the tech and unit bonuses that they usually get. They don't start with archery, etc. So immortal on the Earth scenarios plays more like prince or monarch.


    @nbcman
    Spoiler :
    Nobody that I've met in my shadow founded a religion (I've met Ram, Qin, Sury, Gil, Hannibal, Hammi, Ashoka, but not Julius, Boudi, Toku, or Wang. OTOH, Ashoka did build Stonehenge for me. :) If Ram builds the 'mids, I think I might make him my next victim. :lol:
     
  6. AndrewN

    AndrewN Prince

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    @huerfanista

    You could well be right, like I said I am exceedingly poor at rushing, when I played Civ I my idea of rushing was to use bombers and armour :lol: I have got better since :D

    The problem as I see it is Immortals have str 6 vs archers, the same as CR1 Axes so you will still need a 2 to 1 ratio. I have played the 18 civ earth map as Persia and by the time my Immortals get to the AI capitals they have archers in place and my attack loses shortly after. It could be I am just unlucky, its something I have suspected for the last 40 years or so and playing Civ has in no way dissuaded me from this theory :crazyeye:
     
  7. ConanKND

    ConanKND Warlord

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    First time posting in the series! Love it! :goodjob:

    Anyway, I really think we need to consider the effects of leaving an area of land empty. If Neal rushes Babylon first, the Middle East will be empty, and Egypt or Greece would possibly settle it. India, on the other hand, is far from any other power, so I think it's safer, too.

    Though of course, that's just me. :p
     
  8. Churchill's Hat

    Churchill's Hat Mortal

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    However, with an axe this assumes a promotion. You can give Immortals promotions also to make them str 6.4 or get a 10% withdrawal chance-- both of which will minimize casualties. Furthermore, Immortals a 5 hammers cheaper than axes, which allows you to bring more and lose less.
     
  9. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Remember this is going to be much easier than the typical Immortal rush, due to the side effects of the AI in the Earth maps, and, well, how powerful immortals are.

    Getting an early second city won't hurt. You probably won't want to rush with only your first city anyway.


    As for your target, I'm leaning towards immortal-rushing Hammurabi, simply for how hilariously useless his unique unit would be against it. :p
     
  10. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Yeah, immortals are just strong enough to hit a good jump point against weakly defended archers. With 20% cultural defenses, immortals are like 73% odds to win. Going against 40% odds you'll be worse, but it'll still be pretty decent. Might sacrifice one guy with flanking, but the rest of the battles will be easy.
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    @Joshua368

    I just tested this and it is quite possible to take 4 civs down with only Immortals in this map in emperor/epic settling 1 N...... How is that for powerful immortals ? :D
     
  12. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    With this in mind, I actually support settling 1N. I'm not completely aware of how this map is since I don't remember the exact locations/resources of everything, which may have skewed my recent "go 1W" advice.
     
  13. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    All right, let's get this show on the road.

    I decided to play without Suryavarman and went with the agreed-upon speed and difficulty:



    You'll also note that I made a... slight alteration to my name, there. Yeah, that's just a little private joke. Foreshadowing for future war with Greece, you might say.

    If we're going to be playing on Immortal, I decided that we should do everything in our power to hit the ground running. So I abandoned my plans to start 1S, and instead went inland, trusting in the power of our Unique Units to fetch us some coastline:



    I went Wheel-Animal Husbandry to start in techs before beginning to trudge down the Iron Working road, and I went Worker-Barracks-Warrior-Warrior before pumping out Immortals as fast as my harried citizenry could train them.

    My fleet-footed scout met a like-minded soul in the arid scrubland north of Persepolis:



    The two sprinted off in opposite directions. The eastward-bound one found a map off in eastern Russia before losing his life to a bear, and the other found a few gold in Scandinavia before meeting a similarly messy end.

    Our preparations for war were rather straightforward, so I won't belabor the point here. By 2225 B.C., Persepolis had given me five barracks-trained mounted warriors, ready to bring any Civilization to its knees:



    Babylon, with its fertile floodplains and fierce Bowmen, would be our first target. I couldn't allow Hammurabi to gain a true foothold. He can be a difficult opponent if not handled quickly.

    Babylon was protected by a pair of City Garrison Bowmen, hurling taunts from the city's towers. Our target had teeth! But I had five Immortals, all trained in the art of countering archers. Only one unit died in the battle, and the rewards were great:



    Okay, so it was just a Granary. Those are still pretty darn cool, though! Even though I'll need Pottery before it'll do anything.

    My men swept southward and found the remnants of the Babylonian court huddled among the sand dunes in a rough collection of tents and lean-tos:



    Out of mercy more than malice, I put an end to Hammurabi's reign and his life.

    So my Immortals, bolstered by reinforcements from Persepolis, rested in Babylon's taverns, licking their wounds and biding their time. Tales of blessed Sumeria became more and more frequent as the years went on. Apparently, their leader, Gilgamesh, was well known as a storyteller and epic poet. The proud Sumerian culture bolstered its people, and they strode out and seized the farmlands that had once belonged to the broken people of Babylon.

    Xerxes' Immortals would ride again. Babylon could not be allowed to starve:



    The people of Sumeria were arrogant and prideful. Their smug feelings of invincibility led them to send their well-groomed Workers out unescorted to tend to their civic duties:



    Needless to say, a few centuries of enforced servitude to the Persian Empire will teach them a lesson in humility.

    Not only were the Sumerian Workers a disgraceful display of decadence, but their grand city of Uruk was defended only by a few loincloth-clad ceremonial guards!



    The city fell without ceremony, but the Sumerian ideal lived on in Turkey.

    The Immortals, of course, were relentless in their pursuit:





    Eridu was allowed to stand, both as a testament to Pericles of Persia's might, and as an outpost to watch against his incursions (Basically, I figured I'd let Turkey become a cultural battleground, leaving my Middle Eastern possessions largely in peace).

    Gilgamesh was bound, his beard was cut off, and he now sings for the amusement of the Persian court when he is permitted to see the light of day.

    So with that, I decided to call it a round. Here's a look at our massive empire:



    I'm thinking a few Settlers might be in order to consolidate our holdings and keep, say, Ramesses from claiming the Arabian peninsula.

    Sadly, Asoka hasn't built us anything worth capturing yet:



    Who knows. Maybe patience will be rewarded.

    So everyone is Cautious, and a little put out at our early conquests (-1 all around). We have the power to join the Buddhist bloc, which may be helpful. I was overeager to adopt a religion in the De Gaulle game, though, and it came back to bite us. So I'm a little hesitant.

    Techwise, Pottery is definitely next on the list after Iron Working (and maybe should have come before it). After that, I dunno, maybe Writing to beef up Babylon's Science output? One thing's for sure- Workers shouldn't be a problem for a while (for once). I have the one I built, and five others gained in conquest! Oh, and I have seven Immortals and two garrison Warriors in my army.

    So how'm I doing? I'm a little surprised that Gilgamesh's forces were as skimpy as they were. One Warrior per city!? He had plenty of time to build up his troops! Anyway, here's the save for anyone who's interested:
     
  14. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    Rofl, you didn't accidently click on noble settings?? Seeing multiple cities defended by warriors is laughable at emperor. Even at monarch they have better defenses ;) Anyway incredible good start, good cities. Eridu is a great blocking city. Get the defenses up there to thwart the forces of Europe. Hammy and Gilga out of the way already is great. Less filling up the diplo screen ;)
     
  15. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    I agree. I was a tad nervous when you DOWed protective sumeria. Immortals pwn archers, but CG II/ guerilla Archers will certainly put up more of a fight than warriors.
     
  16. ConsoleCowboy

    ConsoleCowboy Chieftain

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    Good start. I'd go Egypt next, *if* you want to continue on your conquests. Your economy is about to crater, so I would very, very strongly advice to CoL-Slingshot for courthouses. Otherwise forget the IW beeline and go pottery first to give your workers some cottages to build. I know that many of you don't like cottages on yellow tiles, but early rushes, especially on the yellow-tiled side of earth can ruin your eco so fast that china and egypt will just tech away...

    ...but there are no threats to your Immortals till IW'd Brittneys, since India and Egypt have no easy metal access. Prepare to defend against aggro-alex-greece's UU.
     
  17. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

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    Why exactly was Gilgamesh using Warriors on Immortal???!!!!
     
  18. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Because in the scenario used the AI doesn't start with archery , regardless of the level people play ( that is a issue with WB files: the civs don't receive the handicap techs.... neither do barbs ).

    On game: continue pumping Immortals. Move to India. Smash India. Come back to the Middle East and take ramesses down ( he has no metals ). If this goes as normal, both Asoka and Ramesses should be busy making wonders ( GW would be extremely nice in this map BTW ) and
    trying to found religions....
     
  19. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

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    Yeah, but given the extreme AI bonuses, regardless of starting techs, on Immortal, shouldn't Gills have researched it by now????
     
  20. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Well, most likely he already did.... but he was too busy making worker->escort-> settler ( I assume ) than he had no time to make archers.
     

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