King of the World #11: Darius I

If Rome presents such a threat in the takeover of China, could you bribe him for peace or will he just declare again too quickly to make that worthwhile? I agree that JC can move on China, but given the size of China and the fact that there is already a vassal involved I thought it might be more difficult to run roughshod to the point of Chinese capitulation. At least time enough to get a peace accord, do what needs to be done in Africa, and then get back to business.

I think you can hold fairly well against Rome if it came to JC declaring on you should he be forced to pull from China. I don't think the African force would need to be that huge to gain what you need there, and your production should kick. Having Theocracy and gunpowder will also help.

Perhaps you can also stay in the Chinese war but not focus on taking cities and just build up where needed. Keeps the mutual military struggle in place at least, and perhaps you can get enough siege to the lines to make a run at a city a bit later. Also might keep you in the capitulation sweepstakes if Qin gets to that point - I don't know the rules on that when two people are at war with the same target.

With Carthage - I thought only the capital goes into revolt for the slave revolt deal - Utica is not the capital so it confuses me (but I am easily confused).
 
Hey, I've been following this silently for a while, and played through it myself on Noble. I defeated babylon and sumeria early like you did, but decided to take greece out third. Once greece fell I made egypt, carthage, and india my vassals (egypt and carthage peacefully, India through war. I managed to knock india into several colonies in australia). I proceeded to knock out Khmer, and constantly was waging war on China. I ended the game by pushing rome into western europe, and eliminating Boudica. I was originally going for domination, but the call of diplomatic got me first, giving me a higher end game score. I also had a complete space-ship ready to be launched if an AI got too close to finishing.

Just giving you some ideas of some end game choices.
 
Hey, all,

Well, I'm back in town. I wouldn't say I'm better than ever, but I'm still whole :)

So I think I'm just gonna get some sleep tonight and knock out the next round tomorrow morning, early afternoon. Thanks again for reading!
 
woop woop!

I got back from vacation, and, upon noticing that some time had past since an update, and the title of the latest chapter, I thought you had lost lol!

Oh well, go young soldier, and return with this shield or upon it! (intentional irony)
 
And I'm back! Fairly short round here, but there's a lot going on.

Xerxes began the round by sending emissaries to the broken Indian people, huddled in their Himalayan strongholds. Perhaps, in exchange for the secret of the mysterious "Thunder Sticks" brandished by the Roman nations, Persia would be willing to reveal the methods of rapid knowledge distribution that could keep a massive empire functioning:

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Asoka was so pleased that he also threw in what little gold he could afford to spare. This pleased Xerxes. India was no longer worth conquering, so good relations and profitable trade were beneficial.

In 1080, the people of Thebes, despite their supposed sophistication and the worldliness of the empire, continued to cling to their superstitious ways. A young demagogue named Mo Tzu spoke again and again in plazas and markets, gaining quite a following and reputation:

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The city's Knights, being Immortals at heart and loyal only to Xerxes, swooped in and detained the rabblerouser. He was charismatic, and could sway the hearts of the people. Until he was needed, though, he would be detained.

South of Egypt, Hannibal sent four of his powerful Elephants, accompanied by an honor guard of Longbows, to wreak havoc on Khartoum and Rwanda. Hastily recruited units of Pikemen, along with reinforcements of Egypt, quickly smashed the force. The enlistment of troops to take the fight to Carthage was slow, though, and Hannibal had clearly had enough of the fight:

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Xerxes sneered defiantly, but he could see the writing on the wall.

He voted a simple "No" and moved to get what he could from the backwards people of west Africa:

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At the very least, this would help to finance the race for Economics.

By 1110, the Persian army, having slipped quietly past the fortress-city of Guangzhou, stood at the gates of Shanghai, peeling away its defenses while withstanding harrying attacks from Chinese irregulars:

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This was part attack, part diversion, though, for a second, equally powerful stack to the south approached Nanjing.

Ten years later, a young merchant studying in Persepolis became known as the founder of modern Economics:

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Leif Erickson's financial savvy, together with the charismatic sway of Mo Tzu, would revolutionize Persia. Under their combined leadership, Towns became more profitable, Mines became more productive, and sweeping governmental changes became possible.

As the citizens and administrators of Persia enjoyed the benefits of the Golden Age, the generals in the east saw that time was of the essence. Nanjing (and, to a lesser extent, Shanghai) was lightly defended, but Chinese reinforcements and counterattackers were trickling in from the north. There would be no time for a proper siege:

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The Trebuchets merely scoured away the city's defenses and the troops rushed in headlong. There was much loss of veteran lives, but the city fell:

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Not much of a prize, especially as long as Guangzhou stands, but It's a victory.

Shanghai was an even nearer thing. Our troops were exhausted, the city still stood with a 2-strength Knight, and all I had left to move was our noble Medic Warrior. He had 40% odds. It was kind of a long shot, but waiting a turn would result in our army being torn apart peicemeal by the Chinese Knights and Cho-Ko-Nus looming around them. I sent him in, resigned to failure...

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Success! :woohoo:

Okay, so that was a stupid thing to do and, if it failed, I probably would have cussed up a storm and reloaded. So, uh, don't take that turn as a lesson on how to succeed at Civ. I just got ridiculously lucky, all right, kids? Don't do what I do. Bring a bigger army!

Needless to say, with Shanghai manned only by the Warrior and a half-dead Knight of our own, I figured it was probably time to accept peace with China, at least until I can get some more soldiers to the front. Thankfully, Qin is still willing to take it, and he's willing to give up quite a bit for it:

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So that's where I decided to call things. I'll let the experts advise me on what the best haul is from the Chinese.

I also need to decide on a Civics change:

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Our government is... a little outdated. Do we go whole-hog military and go Vassalage/Theocracy (Which we would have to trade for)? Mercantilism or Free Market? Is Bureaucracy worth it with our somewhat lackluster capital?

The Tech screen:

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Asoka's willing to give us Chemistry, but he wants Liberalism, Economics, AND 125 gold! That strikes me as a little steep, though it would let us go straight to Steel... As you can also see, it looks like we just beat Hannibal to Economics. Whew!

The Diplomacy screen:

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Caesar's tough to get up to Pleased. But I think that as long as he's hitting China, he'll leave us alone.

The Power Graph:

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Julie's still the big boy. And China's catching back up pretty darn fast...

Finally, the world as we know it:

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Hopefully, our Caravel can get around the Tierra del Fuego before Boudica finishes mapping things out. Other than that, not a whole lot to report.

So, what do you all think? What's the best deal from Qin? What Civics should we adopt? Is Replacable Parts-Rifling the best tech path right now?

Here's the save:
 
I tried finding it, but have you built the forbidden palace yet? Might be a good idea to do during a GA to speed it up. YOu probably already have it, I just forgot reading about it.
 
@Neal
You need Guanzhou, not Pyongyang (which is surrounded by chinese culture and will soon flip back to Qin - a sneaky chinese ploy!). If he won't give Guangzhou for peace, I'd just take a cease-fire without the 10 turns of enforced peace. Heal up your units, rush reinforcements to the front (especially pikes, as Qin seems to be building exclusively knights), and re-declare to take Guangzhou as soon as you're ready. Qin is vulnerable, and each city of his that you take will cripple him further.

Has Jules taken any of his cities?
 
Free Speech, Free Market & Theocracy to snag that second promotion on new troops.

Please more seige and larger armies. Looks like you'll have some cultural problems in those newly captured cities. Is there a third city capture that might relive some of that pressure? And do you have the forces to take it? The China peace offer just gives you another city in a Chinesse cultural flood. Will they give Guangzhou? Can you accept peace rebuild forces and ten turns later take Guangzhou?
 
As usual, Neal is being parcimonious with the troops in field.....

You are in a bad spot since you are definitely outnumbered in China ( BTW how did they got all those phants :p ? ). If you continue the war, you'll need to play defense.

Your strategical decision of taking 2 cities swarmed in enemy culture can make them death traps to your army and that makes me wary. You don't have reinforcements close enough and even those HA in Guangzhou can make devastating casualties in your army. As QSH will not acept giving you Guangzhou ( that would be good enough for now ), I think you have to.......

Make a cease fire ( peace? No way :p No peace until Persians rule Beijing atleast. otherwise the conquered china will be unworkable .... unless OFC, if you think you can't assemble enough forces to deal with China in 10 turns ). China is still at war with Rome and things are quite stalled in the North, it looks..... if you do a cease fire, the chinese will probably move their reserve forces to the north to fight the Roman grens. That time can be well used to bring troops to SE Asia and to take that cursed city for good

And please bring more units :p
 
Poor Tokugawa. While the sorry tech state is undestandable for him, why he is content with almost no expansion?
 
Given the cultural situation and the local terrain, I am wondering if you will even be able to get troops into the cities that you now have. Seems you do need to stop the fighting now at least, and perhaps the cease fire would be best, but will you have enough to defend those cities you have taken once things are back on? Taking P'yongyang in the deal just gives you another headache and I agree that it's best to avoid that for now

I would try to find a way to get chemistry, and the deal with Asoka is one that I would likely do in this case. You'll need to burn Liberalism and/or Econ to get Theocracy from Boudica as well, and given India's current state I would not worry about them making any hay with the techs they get from you. I would then consider going straight to steel because you are going to need those cannons.

I would suggest switching to theocracy and keep getting those units going. I might even suggest vassalage. Keeping HR and slavery seems prudent, and under the economy I'd get Free Market and send out a caravel to find the Americas (I see you are building one on the African coast).

Watch for JC in the fight vs. Qin. If Qin ends up capitulating to JC you will not be able to do anything about the culture pressuring your new cities until you are ready to take on the Roman Empire (or until JC forces that issue). Glad to see Qin is at least hanging in there against JC.
 
Turn 0 (so no spoilers)
a) Boudica is willing to give you Theo and Chemistry for Economics and Liberalism. In fact, I think she's willing to throw in a bit of gold.
b) Take a ceasefire with China; it'll let you reDOW ASAP, and GPT goes up by 15;
c) Bribe JC to end war with China, he'll do it for Liberalism (which is a stale tech right now anyways)
d) Start gearing up for another invasion of China.
 
I'm against bribing JC to stop the war for now. QSH will most likely not cap in the next 20 turns ( the power average is quite low due to weaklings like Korea, India or Japan and QSH will not cap until his power goes below the average ) and if the Chinese ferry their troops to Siberia to fight the Roman army in western Siberia, the takeover of China proper will be far easier. Besides that, I agree with Gooblah....
 
I don't like bribing JC to end the war either... but if you go that route at least get your peace first and give Qin time to move some of those forces north away from you. Of course once you are at peace Qin will have those additional forces to combat JC. If you do accept the city for peace then just use it as a diversion and trip wire so you can concentrate more in the Southern sector.
 
re: Forbidden Palace- Nope, hasn't been built yet. Maybe that should be more of a priority....

re: Athens- It's in the last turn of takeover revolt.

re: Pyongyang- That's not the only city Qin'll give me for peace. The question is, which one should I take? No, Guangzhou isn't on the list. I'm thinking maybe I should push for an island colony, since at least that'll be isolated from Chinese culture and troops...

re: Caesar's success- He's taken a Siberian city or two, but then Qin's taken one from Asoka. So I think that front's pretty much a stalemate. And why would I want peace there when it keeps Chinese forces AND Rome's attention diverted?

re: Civics- Hmm... I was actually debating between Bureaucracy and Vassalage, but yeah, maybe Free Speech is my best option right now...

re: The Army- Yeah, I know. I'm in the process of building it up. But these things take time.

re: Boudica- She'll trade Chemistry? Really? According to the Tech screen, it's off the table...

re: Techs- I'm hearing a lot of support for doing what we can to get Chemistry and then hitting Steel. I guess we'll let Rifling wait. Any major opposition to that plan?
 
Currently, I see Cannons>Rifles. With the state of your current siege army now ( what is it, like 4 trebs per stack?) You can get a lot more by getting those 4 trebs into cannons. A giant tube with gunpowder is quite a lot better than a giant slingshot.
 
I'm loving the writing style in this KOTW Neal.

In terms of the war, what exactly is the difference between peace and ceasefire? You can declare after 10 turns for both, right? So why not take concessions with peace?
 
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