Koenigsegg

Judging from that humans require a lot of infrastructure so exist, so should we eliminate ourselves?
Are you serious?

Option 1 (cars and suburbia) is less efficient than Option 2 (walking/cycling/mass transit and cities). You respond that if we want efficiency we should all just die. The implication is that we should never try to pick the more efficient option in anything.

Are you serious?
 
Are you serious?

Option 1 (cars and suburbia) is less efficient than Option 2 (walking/cycling/mass transit and cities). You respond that if we want efficiency we should all just die. The implication is that we should never try to pick the more efficient option in anything.

Are you serious?

Complete option 2 is just impossible. Even people in the cities usually use public transit for lack of a better option, not because they want to. I think that in the absence of alternatives, increasing car efficiency is the best we can do.
 
From a purely scientific, technological, and perhaps artistic point of view, you have to really be in awe for what this tiny Swedish hypercar manufacturer has been able to accomplish. They make all the other big boys like Ferrari, Lamborghini, and even Porsche look like they're asleep at the wheel.
There is no doubt the Koenigsegg is a great car built by a tiny company which had no real history doing so.

And I have posted the second video you posted myself in my car nut thread.

But it is hardly a case that "they make all the other big boys like Ferrari, Lamborghini, and even Porsche look like they're asleep at the wheel." In fact, it is quite mediocre for an extremely expensive supercar at what is likely the greatest test of any high performance road car, a lap of the Nordschliefe:

3. Porsche 918 Spyder (Weissach-Package) 6:57.00
4. Nissan GT-R Nismo 7:08.68
6. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13
7. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64
9. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 7:18.00
12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63
...
37. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55
 
There is no doubt the Koenigsegg is a great car built by a tiny company which had no real history doing so.

And I have posted the second video you posted myself in my car nut thread.

But it is hardly a case that "they make all the other big boys like Ferrari, Lamborghini, and even Porsche look like they're asleep at the wheel." In fact, it is quite mediocre for an extremely expensive supercar at what is likely the greatest test of any high performance road car, a lap of the Nordschliefe:

Yeah they are extremely expensive. But soon enough they'll let their new toy take a spin on that famous little German track since their 7:33.55 was quite a long time ago. :)

But ultimately I'm disappointed in this thread. It was supposed to be about human ingenuity, inspiration, and how you can start out with very little and produce something great. This ultimately applies to everyone. But the thread ultimately spun-out mostly into "it's bad bad bad" and "the environment environment environment." :ack:

You can always find something bad about anything.
 
Complete option 2 is just impossible. Even people in the cities usually use public transit for lack of a better option, not because they want to. I think that in the absence of alternatives, increasing car efficiency is the best we can do.
Everything I do is because of a lack of a better option. It doesn't make the awesome stuff less awesome. Commuting by rail is far more pleasant than commuting by cars if you live near the station and don't have to change lines nor switch to busses.
 
Complete option 2 is just impossible. Even people in the cities usually use public transit for lack of a better option, not because they want to. I think that in the absence of alternatives, increasing car efficiency is the best we can do.

In the suburbs, I only use cars because there's virtually no alternative. There are no trains, no subways, few buses, and the distances are too great to make walking or cycling worthwhile. I really don't have an option.

Suburbs take up huge amounts of space, which often demands the destruction of ecosystems. They demand the use of polluting, resource-intensive, dangerous, infrastructure-intensive cars. Since the market is far away, it's more convenient to buy all your groceries for a week or two in one go, which in turn leads to preservative-laden, frozen, unhealthy foods getting stockpiled in huge, energy-intensive refrigerators. The houses have lawns that need to be maintained with energy-wasting lawnmowers and trimmers. The houses themselves tend to be overly large and waste energy in heating, cooling, and lighting. Transportation options are expensive and extremely limited, and since it encourages people to travel alone, being sedentary and sealed in their cars, they tend to get less social contact, which is bad for society as a whole.

A well-designed city, meanwhile, enables people to pick a variety of means of transportation; you aren't forced to buy a car and gas and insurance. Everything's closer, so cheap and healthy means of transportation like walking and cycling become options. Homes in the city tend to be smaller and less wasteful than great big suburban homes. Since markets are usually closer, it becomes possible to buy food a few days a week, which means that they can be fresh and preservative-free. You can store a few days' worth of food in a small, cheap, efficient fridge, and the food will be eaten before it goes bad. Being near so many people and coming into contact with them at least gives you more options to interact socially, even if many urbanites choose not to. You don't need to pamper any lawns, and the means of transportation use up less land and resources. Urban life is generally more efficient than suburban life. Now, I'm not going to pretend that everyone in the city leads lives of fresh food, efficient transportation, and socialization, but at least these things are options. They're impractical in the suburbs. Therefore, it follows that we as a society ought to encourage it more.

Due to things like the suburbia they encourage and the roads and highways they demand, cars are always going to be destructive and wasteful, no matter how fuel-efficient they are. I'm concerned that if we make cars more efficient instead of trying to wean ourselves from them, people will just use cars even more and abandon the cities and public transit for a life designed more for cars than people (a.k.a. the U.S.). If cars are made more popular, even if they also get more efficient, it'll result in more damage and waste than if more people started to forego cars and suburbia for cities and public transit.

Classical_hero claims that while city life is cheaper and less wasteful than suburban life, dying is cheaper still, so we all ought to do that. This is Insane Troll Logic. If you play by those rules, why bother getting a discount on a haircut when you could die and never need a haircut again? Why bike to work instead of driving when you could just die and not need transportation or work? He seems to suggest that we should never try to pick the most efficient option. Why not? :confused:
 
Complete option 2 is just impossible. Even people in the cities usually use public transit for lack of a better option, not because they want to. I think that in the absence of alternatives, increasing car efficiency is the best we can do.

Of course 100% public transit is impossible (and not desirable), but people in cities use public transit because it's damn convenient and affordable. At least, that's the case in NYC. I can't really speak to other cities.

For myself, I'm totally multi-modal. I have a car that I use for trips that are super-inconvenient on public transit, I use a bike for 90% of my commutes, and I walk almost all the rest of the time. I rarely use a cab, but when I do it's because that's exactly the thing I need in that situation.

I'm wondering why you think there's an absence of alternatives. I mean, if we had better funding of public transit and less anti-train lobbying by the oil companies the US might perhaps have a better commuter rail network than Bulgaria (not to disparage Bulgaria, of course! Just noting how awful our system is).

Much of this comes down to private ownership of what should be public infrastructure, I think.
 
Yeah they are extremely expensive. But soon enough they'll let their new toy take a spin on that famous little German track since their 7:33.55 was quite a long time ago. :)
Well, the Ferrari Enzo did a much faster lap a year before. And even a Porsche 911 GT2 went 2.5 seconds faster a year later.

But I certainly encourage them to continue push the envelope, which was recently set by the McLaren P1 and the Porsche 918. If they can also get lower than the 7 minute mark they certainly deserve much praise. It is difficult to believe that a street car can now do within 2 seconds of a Radical SR8.
 
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